babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » rabble content   » babble book lounge   » Picture books

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Picture books
Rundler
editor
Babbler # 2699

posted 10 November 2005 10:21 AM      Profile for Rundler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Graphic novels are hot, hot, hot but despite what you might assume, they're not all fun and games. Reviewer Jane Henderson looks at a new graphic novel Dragonslippers: This is What an Abusive Relationship Looks Like and examines the serious side of the graphic explosion. (At http://www.rabble.ca/reviews)

[ 10 November 2005: Message edited by: Rundler ]


From: the murky world of books books books | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 10 November 2005 10:28 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Psst Lisa: your link isn't working because it's taking the end bracket into it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rundler
editor
Babbler # 2699

posted 10 November 2005 10:51 AM      Profile for Rundler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks Michelle! Fixed!
From: the murky world of books books books | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 10 November 2005 10:59 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No problem.

This looks really interesting, this book. I haven't really heard of graphic novels before. Is this kind of a new trend, or have I just been rather out of it?

Would a book like "The Little Prince" be considered a graphic novel, since it actually incorporates the author's pictures in the text?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rundler
editor
Babbler # 2699

posted 10 November 2005 11:06 AM      Profile for Rundler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wikipedia describes them this way: Graphic novel is a term for a long-form comic book, usually with lengthy and complex storylines, and often aimed at more mature audiences. Graphic novels can be original comics work created as a single narrative or a short story collection, or they can encompass collected issues of previously published comic books, republished in a single large volume. ....

There are new-ish but the term has become popular in the last few years. Wikipedia suggests that's because people using words and pictures to address serious themes didn't want the connotation of comics. I'd be interested to hear other takes on how the term developed and what people creating this kind of work feel about the implications of the terminology.


From: the murky world of books books books | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 10 November 2005 11:07 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm afraid you've been out of it, Michelle (actually, I don't read them myself).

quote:
The term is not strictly delimited, and is sometimes used, controversially, to imply subjective distinctions in artistic quality between graphic novels and other kinds of comics. It is commonly used to disassociate works from the juvenile and/or humorous connotations of the terms "comics" and "comic book", implying that the work is more serious, mature, and/or literary than traditional comics. Following the reasoning behind this distinction, the French term "Bande Dessinée" is occasionally applied, by art historians and others schooled in fine arts, to dissociate comics books in the fine-art tradition from those of popular entertainment.

Good old Wikipedia

edit: Since Rundler and I cross-posted...it's interesting to speculate whether, for example, a Tintin book is a graphic novel or not. I'd say yes. Before the term was widespread, I used to say 'French comic books' to denote the perfect-bound hardcover Tintins and other, even more mature offerings from France from the softcover 'four-colour' superhero comics that were the only other comic books I knew.

[ 10 November 2005: Message edited by: aRoused ]


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rundler
editor
Babbler # 2699

posted 10 November 2005 11:17 AM      Profile for Rundler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And what about Manga? The reviewer, Jane Henderson, didn't have a chance to cover that whole huge area of "graphic novels" or whatever I *should* call them because I had to be the evil editor and apply space restrictions. Perhaps Jane will join the conversation and share her thoughts.
From: the murky world of books books books | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 10 November 2005 11:27 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The genre's been around for a little while now, and at its best can be quite powerful. An earlier example is Raymond Briggs When the Wind Blows, one of the most moving and influential anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation stories of it's generation.

If you enjoy graphic novels, I recommend Bryan Talbots The Tale of One Bad Rat which mixes images from Beatrix Potter novels into one teenage girls story of her sexual abuse.

Both available at a library near you!

[edited to prevent me from appearing illiterate]

[ 10 November 2005: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7024

posted 10 November 2005 11:30 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Silver Anniversary of the graphic novel.

quote:
Even then the terminology didn't really fit. [The 'first' graphic novel,] "A Contract with God," was actually four short stories and not like a traditional novel at all. Art Spiegelman, author of the comix Holocaust memoir "Maus," recalled when "Contract" first came out. "I liked one of the stories very much but it didn't register with me as having anything to do with what I had already climbed on my isolated tower to try to make, which was a long comic book that would need a bookmark." In the past 25 years the meaning of the phrase has only gotten hazier and less satisfying. Japanese manga, superhero collections, non-fiction, autobiography — all of these are "graphic novels," a term that now applies to any square-bound book with a story told in comics format. "The problem with the word 'graphic novel' is that it is an arguably misguided bid for respectability where graphics are respectable and novels are respectable so you get double respectability..."

[ 10 November 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rundler
editor
Babbler # 2699

posted 10 November 2005 11:40 AM      Profile for Rundler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I had no idea the term had been around for so long. Interesting context to have. Thanks!
From: the murky world of books books books | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbling_Jenn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10944

posted 12 November 2005 03:20 AM      Profile for Babbling_Jenn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am a relatively new reader of graphic novels, but I must say that I've fallen in love with them. Though they are definitely a trend, they also have substance and staying-power, I think.

A great read is Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi, and Persepolis 2. They are about the childhood (in #1) and early adulthood (#2) of a girl growing up in Iran during the Islamic Revolution.

In the first book, we see the story through the child's eyes with some historical context given through stories the parents tell about the revolution.

In the second, the main character (same as in the first, but older) travels to Western Europe to continue her education away from the tumultuous Iran. There we learn about the complexities of being Middle Eastern in a very different Western culture.

Highly recommended.


From: Rural Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 12 November 2005 08:19 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yet another quibble! Tintin is BELGIAN! So were many of the original "Bandes dessinées" - albums for varying age groups from children to adults, and a wide range of contents, comical, serious, adventure, erotic (often sort of soft-porn) etc.

I believe a spokeshuman for us cats did wind up taking Art Spiegelman to task for casting us in the role of Nazis - rather a sad irony, in light of all the persecutions, round-ups, tortures and exterminations we have been subjected to over the centuries in Christendom.

I'd put Le Petit prince (written for children, but enjoyed by many adults) in the same category of children's books where the illustrations are an integral part of the story - often extremely inventive, and sometimes dark - Lear and later Sendak are examples. There are some great ones from Mitteleuropa, but I can't recall any author's/artists names off the top of my head...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 12 November 2005 08:47 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Je dois avouer que je pensais aux Editions Dupuis en ecrivant, lagatta!
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 16 November 2005 05:12 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
The genre's been around for a little while now, and at its best can be quite powerful. An earlier example is Raymond Briggs When the Wind Blows, one of the most moving and influential anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation stories of its generation.

Whoa. That takes me back. I read that when I was in grade 12, in the early eighties. It crystallized for me the depressing realization that the world might end soon. Very chilling, very sad.

Briggs and Le Petit Prince come out of the children's book tradition. The term "graphic novel", and most of the things that get called that, comes generally out of the comics tradition. These days there are plenty of Batman or Spiderman "graphic novels"; some of them deal with the characters in more depth and from a more adult perspective; others are just compilations of comic books that had an ongoing plot. Then there's Watchmen, which came out of the superhero comic world and deals with superhero themes but went so far beyond the normal in every way I can think of that it won a Hugo award, the only graphic novel ever to do so. Read Watchmen. Just do.

I think there are fewer people coming out of the children's illustrated book genre to write things in a similar format for adults. Although there *are* plenty of kids' books which are worth an adult look. My mother collects children's books, and I'll tell you, some of the art is amazing. I'd rather go to a gallery filled with topnotch children's lit illustrations than most of the art that's being done as art currently. And some of the stories are fascinating.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10724

posted 16 November 2005 05:30 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not that I'm being elitist or anything, but if you havn't read Neil Gaiman's Sandman yet, you should immediately prostrate yourself and attempt to gouge out your eyes with a half pound of unsalted butter as peneance.
From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 16 November 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
if you havn't read Neil Gaiman's Sandman yet, you should immediately prostrate yourself and attempt to gouge out your eyes with a half pound of unsalted butter as peneance.

Hear hear. And that's an interesting mental image, but no stranger perhaps than some of those in the Sandman books.


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 16 November 2005 05:49 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
unsalted butter

Megadrift here, but has anyone else ever wondered what unsalted butter is supposed to be for other than elitism? Every recipe I've ever seen that called for unsalted butter I just used butter and it turned out fine.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca