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Author Topic: Racism and Extermination against Hindus
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 11:34 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/are_hindus_destined_to_become_extinct.htm

Are the Hindus Destined to Become an Extinct Race?

By Ishani Chowdhury

In the Spring of 2000, the democratically elected Fijian government led by Prime Minister Mahendra Chaudhry was held hostage by a guerrilla group, headed by George Speight. They were demanding a segregated state exclusively for the native Fijians, thereby legally abolishing any rights the Indian inhabitants have now. Port Louis, Mauritius witnessed three days of racial violence in February 1999, when popular reggae singer Kaya died in police custody. Riots quickly developed along racial lines with black Creoles attacking Hindus. Police stations housing terrified

Hindus were not spared. Likewise, Northeast India has witnessed a surge of nearly 200% in their Christian population in the past 25 years due to the wily tactics of foreign missionaries. So strong is their grasp there that practicing Hinduism is forbidden in these areas. Durga puja has become almost obsolete as deities are destroyed or stolen in broad daylight. This confrontational climate has led to numerous militant outfits, sponsored by the Church, who are fighting for secession from India.

Every minute of everyday an innocent Hindu is attacked solely because of his faith. It is absolutely heart-wrenching to see that being Hindu gives almost everyone the right to automatically verbally and physically abuse us. Have we taken ahimsa [nonviolence] to such an extreme that merely standing up for one's own rights has become a dreadful thought? It is a sad fact to say that while Southern Baptists are openly calling for the conversion of "heathen" Hindus, that the vast majority of us sit quietly in our fancy homes and luxury cars falsely reassuring ourselves that "they do not mean me." But indeed they do, and it is happening every minute of everyday in almost every country in the world where we live. So pathetic is the present situation that not only are we being abused and terrorized by the minorities in our own country, but also by the majority population in the lands where we live abroad. Indeed we can distinctly go down in history as the most cowardice race that has ever lived.

This long tradition of having a slave mentality started thousands of years ago. History has been witness to the numerous onslaughts that we have suffered not only due to disunity, but also to our selfish interests. Even the prior knowledge of Alexander's conquest did not stop many Hindu kingdoms from willingly joining hands with him. This led to the successful expansion of Alexander's empire. Even after Alexander's death, many kingdoms, such as that of Raja Parvataka's Keykai, chose to remain a lackey to the Greek governor appointed to the region. It was only one brave man who came forward to set India free. It was the passion in Chanakya's heart that led him to form the great Mauryan Empire, an empire which brought together the many small, fragmented kingdoms. For the first time it was demonstrated how one man could stir a person's soul and become a force to reckon with.

But history has played a cruel joke, for the Mauryan Empire lasted but a short time, and so by the seventh century AD, we became the targets of another set of tyrannical conquerors -- the Muslims. For eight hundred years we watched as our women were raped, our treasure house of books burned (including the world-renowned Taxila and Nalanda university libraries), our temples destroyed, our people sold as slaves to Middle Eastern countries, and killed or forcibly converted. At that time very few Hindus, if any, chose to rise. Instead, we were too busy being a traitor to our own people and becoming a foot-boy for the king. The Koran, with the countless verses calling for jihad against the "infidels," became a weapon for every Muslim ruler from Mahmud of Ghazni to Tipu Sultan. So poisonous is the Islamic creed that having a Hindu lineage did not even matter as was the case with Jehangir, son of Akbar and his Hindu wife, Jodabai.

By the arrival of the Portuguese and the British, much of Gandhara (present-day Afghanistan) and Western India (present-day Pakistan) was demographically lost to the Muslims. The terrible pogrom known as the Goan Inquisition led to the forcible conversion of Hindus to Christianity and the large-scale confiscation of ancestral property. Scores of temples were demolished and churches built in their place. To add insult to injury, one of the greatest so-called "saints," Francis Xavier, feverishly declared "When all are baptized, I order all temples of their false gods destroyed and idols broken into pieces. I can give you no idea of the joy I feel seeing this done."1 With the cross in one hand and the sword in the other, these European forces went about annihilating Hindus, so much so that we have now lost about 35% of our Goan brothers to Christianity.

The British drained us of our wealth and left us crippled in 1947. The rising, violent Muslim demand for the separate homeland led to the vivisection of one-third of India. As Gandhi was preaching "shanti, shanti" [peace, peace], Muslims perpetrated the most heinous pogrom remembered in partition history, the Noakhali Danga. There is not one family in India that has not seen or suffered the brunt of partition. Gandhi did not do much or say much when his fellow Hindus were being hounded like prey, instead he accusingly stressed to us that we be kind and considerate to our "gentle" Muslim brethren. One cowardice act led to another, as Nehru created our problem of Kashmir and chanted "Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai" while the Chinese were attacking Arunachal Pradesh. By this act, we have lost a large portion of our land to yet another set of modern invaders.

In 1971, while troops under Indira Gandhi's direction liberated Bangladesh, it turned a blind eye to the nearly three million Hindus killed by the Pakistani army and the ten million refugees that flooded the border. She willingly fed, sheltered and handed over 90,000 captured Pakistani troops. Inconsiderate of the fact that we lost hundreds of our soldiers in the front line, she returned to Pakistan a portion of POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) that we managed to re-capture from them. Is this the way one treats one's enemy? Certainly let us not forget Kargil, when bodies of Indian troops were found butchered, their genitals severed, tongues cut and eyes gouged out. This scene takes you back to the medieval days when Muslim kings would not only kill their own relatives for power, but use these same exact means to slowly torture them to death. Indeed, the injunctions of the Koran are followed even in this most advanced day and age. And what does our beloved India do after seeing the condition of these unfortunate Kargil martyrs? Exactly what she did over eight hundred years ago, absolutely nothing!

Our government has become a lackey for the minority population, just begging to appease them at any instance they get, even if it may be an unreasonable, outrageous demand. But what has happened to the 85% of the population who are Hindus, do our votes not count? Apparently not. And how is it that our most "loyal" civil servants are feeling this way? It is simple, because we ourselves do not care what is happening, so why should they?

The fault lies not with ministers, governors or the Prime Minister, it lies solely with us. We are the people, and the voice of power. If we are weak, why should they even bother? But, if 12% of the population, the Muslims, scream and shout, they win the battle, as well as the war. While the rest of the world's democratic, secular countries only allow for one man to marry one woman, India has given Muslims the special privilege of marrying up to four wives, not to mention alimony for only three months. Even the Supreme Court did not have a say when Rajiv Gandhi overturned their verdict in the Shah Bano case, and instead enacted a law making sure that the court finds no scope of jurisdiction in the matters of Muslim marriage, divorce, etc. in the future.

Minority institutions, namely churches, madrasas (Islamic schools), etc., in India receive special funding from the government. Likewise, minorities also receive subsidies on pilgrimages, such as the hajj [a Muslim's pilgrimage to Mecca]. Yet there is no such facility for Hindus, even though we have become a minority in six states in India.

Millions of Kashmiri Hindus have been driven from their ancestral land and are living a dismal life in squatter camps, yet not one government minister is doing anything to address the situation. Sixty ancient temples were destroyed in 1992, but no one said a word. Hindu marriage parties and neighborhoods are singled out and attacked, even children as young as eight are not spared and our papers remain silent. We have become refugees in our own homeland.2

We are not second class, but third class citizens in our own country. Documented numerous times, Christian missionaries are openly calling our devas "shaitans," compelling tribal converts to illegally confiscate land for building churches, urinating on deities, forcing marriages of Christian girls to Hindu boys (so as to make the "nonbeliever" a convert) and pressuring converts to force family members to embrace Christianity.3 SIMI, the Students Islamic Movement of India has declared an open jihad against Hindus. Posters being circulated include one that exhorts young Muslim boys to follow the teachings of Islam passionately and trample upon those who are kaafirs (non-believers in Islam).4

If tribal Christians pelt stones at Hindus and we retaliate, we are blamed. If Christians and Muslims openly slander our devas, it is considered natural, but if we try to defend ourselves or retaliate in kind, we are considered communal. It has come to the point where even saying that one is Hindu is a shameful thing. Many organizations are aghast at the thought of putting the sacred Om on booklets, or rush through pujas so as not the risk losing the audience. We have successfully demeaned and cheapened our religion to such an extent that images of deities are sold on shoes and goddesses are drawn naked. Has Hinduism become so much of joke that Christians and Muslims find it so easy to "buy" a Hindu convert? How can a few saris induce one into discarding his ancestral faith? Why are millions of Hindus fleeing Bangladesh, is it because the rest of the Hindus can not help or stand behind them? Has Chanakya's dream of a united Hindu nation become a mockery?

While India is a total failure in protecting the Hindu population (case in point: Kashmir, the Northeast, the border districts of West Bengal) Hindus in other countries are not that well off either. According to the Fijian constitution, Indians can not own land, and Parlimentary seats are not allocated as per normal democratic means. On July 27, 2000 two hundred terrified Indians were rounded up and held hostage by George Speight's supporters. Even at 44% of the population we can not do a thing, and the Indian government does not say a thing.

Fifty thousand Hindus in and around Dhaka, Bangladesh were killed in 1964 when a holy relic from a mosque was stolen in Kashmir. In 1992, three thousand Hindu temples were destroyed and thousands of Hindus killed in religious riots in Bangladesh. This is not something new. "There were riots in East Pakistan almost every year, and severe killings in 1944, 1947, 1950, 1954, 1958, 1960 and 1963," states S.K. Bhattacharya in Genocide in East Pakistan/Bangladesh. Added to the long list of mass attacks is the daily harassment of Hindus. The Dhaka newspaper Sangabad reported on September 24, 1989, the story of Ms. Birajabala Debnath of Niradabad. She became a widow after her husband was murdered because he refused to give up his land to his Muslim neighbor. Then she and her five children were abducted in the middle of the night and murdered. Amnesty International's 1996 report details the attack on innocent Hindu students at Dhaka University's Jagannatha Hall. Seven hundred law enforcement personnel raided the University's only Hindu hall firing tear-gas, stealing valuables and raping and beating students. The three hour raid saw hundreds of deaths and injuries.5

There have been legal assaults against the Hindus by the Bangladesh government as well, most especially the Vested Property Act, formally called the "Enemy Property Act." It allows for the lands of a person who has fled the country to be seized and redistributed. In 1989, Bangla Land Minister Sunil Gupta stated that between 1984-1989 700,000 acres of land was confiscated from the Hindus, plus thousands of homes, shops, ponds, etc. The Bangladesh government is totally nonchalant about this and other incidents. It can be safely said that the government is indeed playing a major role in systematically exterminating the few remaining Hindus. Even as early as 1971, the new Bangladesh government chose to turn a blind eye to the incidents that were happening around them.

The Ramna Kali Bari in Dhaka, hundreds of years old, was shelled by the Pakistani Army and the new Bangladesh government confiscated the land, bulldozed the remains and turned the 66-acre area into a park. Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheik Hasina goes one step further to say "Bangladeshi Hindus have one foot in India and other in Bangladesh" and asked, given the divided loyalty, what should they expect and how much the local Muslims will listen to her government. It seems as though Sheik Hasina is suffering from an acute case of amnesia as it was her family that the Indian government saved from the hands of a military coup and the assassination of her father in 1975. Indeed, the Koran's injunction of not trusting a non-Muslim, as stated in 4:144 of the chapter entitled An-Nisa (Women): "O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?" is followed to this day.

Bangladesh has indeed followed in Pakistan's footsteps of exterminating Hindus. Pakistan's Hindu population, once numbering 15% has been reduced to about 1%. In a recent Indian Express article, the remaining few are adopting Christian names so as to escape persecution by the Muslims.6

<For remainder click the link above>


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 02:28 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would say that definitely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, Hindus have suffered from more hatred, prejudice and discrimination than all other races/groups.

Discrimination and hatred against all other groups is prohibited, but when it comes to Hindus everything is permitted. On this forum, for instance, nobody except me ever protests against any anti-Hindu oppression (and there is plenty of that, much more than against any other group).


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 21 September 2005 02:32 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh please rban, how the hell would you describe the treatment on Anishnawbe people's? As beter than those of Hindu's? Please!
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 21 September 2005 02:37 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look, rban, are you for real?

I'm willing to consider the possibility that in some countries Hindus are a persecuted group. But the reason people don't rally to your defence here probably has very little to do with what they think about the position of Hindus in societies where they are the minority or in societies where they are the majority, and everything to do with the ridiculous hyperbole that you spout, such as that below.

As other people have mentioned, you're not doing your cause any favours with the way you're promoting it. In fact, you couldn't do a better job of discrediting it if you tried.

Someone may well have something worthwhile to say on this topic here, but unless you stop constantly extolling the virtues of your organization and yourself, lamenting what you see as the uniquely dire position of Hindu people around the world, and vilifying Islam at every opportunity, that someone isn't you.

quote:
Originally posted by rban:
I would say that definitely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, Hindus have suffered from more hatred, prejudice and discrimination than all other races/groups.

Discrimination and hatred against all other groups is prohibited, but when it comes to Hindus everything is permitted. On this forum, for instance, nobody except me ever protests against any anti-Hindu oppression (and there is plenty of that, much more than against any other group).


[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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Babbler # 9664

posted 21 September 2005 03:18 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK, then help me out here:

1. what other group has had 80 million slaughtered, and been enslaved for 1000 years?

2. what other group has received as little sympathy as we have for our trials and tribulations? You are saying it is MY fault that no one here defends Hindus? Well, I have looked thru the archives: except for that brief Fashion Cares incident, no one has ever defended Hindus before as far as I can tell. And this goes back long before I was even aware of the existence of Rabble, so you can't blame me for that one.

The number of Hindus enslaved, slaughtered, and exterminated just for being Hindu exceeds the death toll for every other group, including natives, blacks, and Jews.

I am for real, and I know from statistics and historical data that the people who suffer from the most discrimination and hatred are indeed Hindus. No one has had worse treatment than we have, and I can prove this and back it up with facts and figures.

Not only have Hindus been the victims of mass genocide, but many support this and say it is a good thing. Many claim that since Hinduism had a caste system, it was OK for foreigners to invade India and do whatever they do. 'Heck, those people oppressed each other anyway, so what's wrong with us going in there and having some fun of our own?'

Can you imagine anyone stating that it was OK for Europeans to enslave Africans simply because black tribes often fought, over-ran, and enslaved each other?

Seriously, Hindus are the most oppressed. We suffer much more than everyone else. If you use your common sense and objectivity, you'll see this.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 September 2005 03:26 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by obscurantist:
Look, rban, are you for real?

I'm willing to consider the possibility that in some countries Hindus are a persecuted group. But the reason people don't rally to your defence here probably has very little to do with what they think about the position of Hindus in societies where they are the minority or in societies where they are the majority, and everything to do with the ridiculous hyperbole that you spout, such as that below.

As other people have mentioned, you're not doing your cause any favours with the way you're promoting it. In fact, you couldn't do a better job of discrediting it if you tried.

Someone may well have something worthwhile to say on this topic here, but unless you stop constantly extolling the virtues of your organization and yourself, lamenting what you see as the uniquely dire position of Hindu people around the world, and vilifying Islam at every opportunity, that someone isn't you.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]



Word, obscurantist.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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Babbler # 8238

posted 21 September 2005 04:12 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, this may have been addressed on an earlier thread (like here), but can someone else comment on the main thesis of the article rban quoted, namely that the majority Hindu population of India oppresses itself?

[Edited to add: I see that this topic was discussed on that thread. So I'm not asking anyone to repeat what they've already said there, unless they particularly want to.]

quote:
Originally posted by rban [quoting from an article]:
So pathetic is the present situation that not only are we being abused and terrorized by the minorities in our own country, but also by the majority population in the lands where we live abroad. Indeed we can distinctly go down in history as the most cowardice race that has ever lived.

...Gandhi did not do much or say much when his fellow Hindus were being hounded like prey, instead he accusingly stressed to us that we be kind and considerate to our "gentle" Muslim brethren. One cowardice act led to another, as Nehru created our problem of Kashmir and chanted "Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai" while the Chinese were attacking Arunachal Pradesh. By this act, we have lost a large portion of our land to yet another set of modern invaders.

In 1971, while troops under Indira Gandhi's direction liberated Bangladesh, it turned a blind eye to the nearly three million Hindus killed by the Pakistani army and the ten million refugees that flooded the border. She willingly fed, sheltered and handed over 90,000 captured Pakistani troops.

...Our government has become a lackey for the minority population, just begging to appease them at any instance they get, even if it may be an unreasonable, outrageous demand. But what has happened to the 85% of the population who are Hindus, do our votes not count? Apparently not.

...The fault lies not with ministers, governors or the Prime Minister, it lies solely with us. We are the people, and the voice of power. If we are weak, why should they even bother? But, if 12% of the population, the Muslims, scream and shout, they win the battle, as well as the war.


[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 21 September 2005 04:46 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So this is a standard and vicious style of Hindu-fascist propaganda to set up the Muslim population of India as the Internal Enemy in rhetoric that is awfully similar to the Internal Enemification of European Jews.

It basically calls on the majority to rise up against the oppression of a minority. Of course, the minority does not control the state apparatus at all. So to resolve this very obvious contradiction, it claims that the majority oppresses itself by being a pushover. So for the majority not to be a pushover, it has to [fill in dangerous blank].


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 September 2005 05:07 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mandos: eloquently put.

It is amazing how easily that psychology resurrects itself, isn't it.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 05:09 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No doubt that is the case. And it is not that rare a phenomenon either. During the days of slavery some black slaves opposed freedom-fighters struggling for dignity.There are traitors in every race. Hindus are particularly traitorous.

If you read any Indian history, you will notice one thing: Hindus have lost to invaders mainly because other Hindus have betrayed them.

The problem of Hindus being oppressed in other nations would not exist if we defended our own. But we don't. Our media and politicians are bought and paid for by our enemies. Conditioned by centuries of slavery and foreign subjugation, we eagerly attack and criticize our own patriots and heroes, while elevating those who wish to destroy us.

The really hilarious part of all this is the way real patriots are silenced and shut down. Anyone who raises these issues are denounced as fascists. Funny, huh? My enemies shall kill, rape, and torture my people with impunity, yet any attempt to protest will be promptly silenced by the oppressors.

I encourage you to read a great French author named Francois Gautier

http://www.francoisgautier.com/

Here is a sample of his work:

http://www.francoisgautier.com/Written%20Material/Shivaji2.rtf

ATT. MR A.J. PHILIP : “WHERE IS THE SHIVAJI OF MODERN INDIA” ? (972 words)

Poor India ! What a way to start the millennium by surrendering to Islamic terrorism… For ten centuries, this sacred land has been raped and plundered by Muslim invaders who came from Afghanistan and beyond :Indians have been converted by force to Islam, their women raped, their children taken away as slaves, their men slaughtered… And India always took it meekly, as a lamb goes to the slaughter house - except for a lone Shivaji or two.

And when the Muslims invaders were spent, then came the European colonisers - and they too got India for a penny, which surrendered itself like a humble servant to its arrogant master, bar for the fight of a few braves Sikhs. And when the Europeans were gone, Nehru and Gandhism made sure that India remained the goody-goody little boy that it always was, by clipping the wings of its army, so that when the Chinese treacherously swooped down from Tibet, it was a cakewalk, a humiliation which still rankles nearly forty years later.
Is it different today ? No ! Small neighbours of hardly any consequence, such as Nepal or Bangladesh, lend their territories to enemies of India, without New Delhi doing anything, in the spirit of the old Nehruvian “Good Neighbourhood” policy. For three decades, Pakistan, like a Ghazni of modern times, has been able to send its agents murder and loot into Indian territory without the Government reacting, except to mouth a few empty threats.

Yet, six months ago, during the battle of Kargil, Indian army proved that when it is given a free hand by the bureaucrats and politicians, its soldiers and officers are amongst the best in the world, fighting in impossible conditions against an enemy better equipped and overlooking them. And for the first time in five hundred years, since the last great Hindu empire of Vijaynagar was razed by the Moghols, the Kshatriya Spirit was revived in India – and once more, what the Bhagavad Gita had preached became alive : that violence is sometimes necessary to protect one’s children women and borders; that Knowledge has to be preserved by Might in the true spirit of ahimsa…

But look at what happened when these modern Barbarians took over flight IC 814 : it is not the India of Arjuna, Shivaji, or the Rani of Jhansi who rose-up, but the meek India – the India of Macaulay’s children, of Nehru and LK Gujral, the India who always goes to be slaughtered head down, the India who for fifteen centuries has been conquered and plundered with such an ease. Instead of giving a free rein to the army, the only body which has shown that it has the courage and leadership to stand-up to terrorism, it was left to the bureaucrats, these arrogant men who think that wearing a tie and speaking polished English make them superior, to bungle the Amritsar episode, the only chance India had to overpower five men armed with a lone pistol (before the Taliban furnished them with more weapons) and to negotiate with the terrorists, after having opened the “friendly Taliban” avenue.

Friendly Talibans ? Even the hapless Indian reading his newspaper with his morning tea, knows that since Mohamed Ghazni nothing has changed : Hindus are still for the Afghans (and unfortunately for the Pakistanis too, who are converted Hindus) the Infidels against whom a merciless Jihad has to be fought until all are conquered or slaughtered. True, the odds against a military intervention in Kandahar were enormous : India’s planes would have had to bypass Pakistan and fly over the Himalayan ranges or Iran and the action would have put the lives of the passengers in great jeopardy. But such odds did not deter the Israelis 24 years ago from rescuing their nationals taken hostage by other Muslim terrorists in a country which was also hostile to Israel (the Uganda of infamous Idi Amin), nor the French two years ago to storm the Air France plane and killing the all the heavily armed Islamic hijackers.

And the saddest thing is that the name “India” evokes no respect today in the world. Small countries, such as Indonesia or Saudi Arabia, can harbour criminals wanted by India, or the Chinese keep threatening India all the time. The vacillating attitude of the Indian Government in giving political asylum to the Karmapa, again sent the wrong signals : are Indians actually “cowards”, as Gandhi once said ? Even Nehru granted immediately political asylum to the Dalai Lama in 1959, recalls Claude Arpi in his remarkable book analysing the China-Tibet-India triangle “The Fate of Tibet” (Har Anand). But look again at the Israelis: like the Indians, they were slaughtered for centuries; and during the Second World War, six million of them went to Hitler’s gas chambers without even a whimper. But after the war, when the new State of Israel was founded, its leaders decided that enough was enough : henceforth it will be “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”. Every time the sacred land of Israel was threatened, its army would steal the initiative by invading the enemy’s territory, earning Israel, a tiny nation surrounded by often hostile Arab countries, respect all over the world.


ATT. MR A.J. PHILIP : “WHERE IS THE SHIVAJI OF MODERN INDIA” ? (972 words)

Poor India ! What a way to start the millennium by surrendering to Islamic terrorism… For ten centuries, this sacred land has been raped and plundered by Muslim invaders who came from Afghanistan and beyond :Indians have been converted by force to Islam, their women raped, their children taken away as slaves, their men slaughtered… And India always took it meekly, as a lamb goes to the slaughter house - except for a lone Shivaji or two.

And when the Muslims invaders were spent, then came the European colonisers - and they too got India for a penny, which surrendered itself like a humble servant to its arrogant master, bar for the fight of a few braves Sikhs. And when the Europeans were gone, Nehru and Gandhism made sure that India remained the goody-goody little boy that it always was, by clipping the wings of its army, so that when the Chinese treacherously swooped down from Tibet, it was a cakewalk, a humiliation which still rankles nearly forty years later.
Is it different today ? No ! Small neighbours of hardly any consequence, such as Nepal or Bangladesh, lend their territories to enemies of India, without New Delhi doing anything, in the spirit of the old Nehruvian “Good Neighbourhood” policy. For three decades, Pakistan, like a Ghazni of modern times, has been able to send its agents murder and loot into Indian territory without the Government reacting, except to mouth a few empty threats.

Yet, six months ago, during the battle of Kargil, Indian army proved that when it is given a free hand by the bureaucrats and politicians, its soldiers and officers are amongst the best in the world, fighting in impossible conditions against an enemy better equipped and overlooking them. And for the first time in five hundred years, since the last great Hindu empire of Vijaynagar was razed by the Moghols, the Kshatriya Spirit was revived in India – and once more, what the Bhagavad Gita had preached became alive : that violence is sometimes necessary to protect one’s children women and borders; that Knowledge has to be preserved by Might in the true spirit of ahimsa…

But look at what happened when these modern Barbarians took over flight IC 814 : it is not the India of Arjuna, Shivaji, or the Rani of Jhansi who rose-up, but the meek India – the India of Macaulay’s children, of Nehru and LK Gujral, the India who always goes to be slaughtered head down, the India who for fifteen centuries has been conquered and plundered with such an ease. Instead of giving a free rein to the army, the only body which has shown that it has the courage and leadership to stand-up to terrorism, it was left to the bureaucrats, these arrogant men who think that wearing a tie and speaking polished English make them superior, to bungle the Amritsar episode, the only chance India had to overpower five men armed with a lone pistol (before the Taliban furnished them with more weapons) and to negotiate with the terrorists, after having opened the “friendly Taliban” avenue.

Friendly Talibans ? Even the hapless Indian reading his newspaper with his morning tea, knows that since Mohamed Ghazni nothing has changed : Hindus are still for the Afghans (and unfortunately for the Pakistanis too, who are converted Hindus) the Infidels against whom a merciless Jihad has to be fought until all are conquered or slaughtered. True, the odds against a military intervention in Kandahar were enormous : India’s planes would have had to bypass Pakistan and fly over the Himalayan ranges or Iran and the action would have put the lives of the passengers in great jeopardy. But such odds did not deter the Israelis 24 years ago from rescuing their nationals taken hostage by other Muslim terrorists in a country which was also hostile to Israel (the Uganda of infamous Idi Amin), nor the French two years ago to storm the Air France plane and killing the all the heavily armed Islamic hijackers.

And the saddest thing is that the name “India” evokes no respect today in the world. Small countries, such as Indonesia or Saudi Arabia, can harbour criminals wanted by India, or the Chinese keep threatening India all the time. The vacillating attitude of the Indian Government in giving political asylum to the Karmapa, again sent the wrong signals : are Indians actually “cowards”, as Gandhi once said ? Even Nehru granted immediately political asylum to the Dalai Lama in 1959, recalls Claude Arpi in his remarkable book analysing the China-Tibet-India triangle “The Fate of Tibet” (Har Anand). But look again at the Israelis: like the Indians, they were slaughtered for centuries; and during the Second World War, six million of them went to Hitler’s gas chambers without even a whimper. But after the war, when the new State of Israel was founded, its leaders decided that enough was enough : henceforth it will be “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”. Every time the sacred land of Israel was threatened, its army would steal the initiative by invading the enemy’s territory, earning Israel, a tiny nation surrounded by often hostile Arab countries, respect all over the world.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 05:12 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah Mandos: brilliant analysis. In South Africa, the majority were always black, so whites never really oppressed blacks, did they?

Notice how these people dismiss the arguments without addressing the points made. They simply make some comment like 'the majority can never be oppressed by the minority'. Really? So apartheid never happened...it was all a mirage.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 September 2005 05:14 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
rban, in South Africa, the Europeans -- British and Boer -- had the guns.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
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posted 21 September 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So for the majority not to be a pushover, it has to [fill in dangerous blank].
-------------------------------------------------

I'll fill in the 'dangerous' blank:

Assert itself? Prevent millions of Hindus from being slaughtered? Dare to speak up against oppression?


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 21 September 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mmm, race-traitors.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 05:23 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Skdadl: in India, the minorities have the power that exceeds any puny 'guns'; they have behind them :

A. the Western media;
B. billions of perto-dollars from the Middle East;
C. evangelical Christian leaders like Pat Robertson, who call Hindus a 'demonic religion', are well funded (especially in the Southers US), and determined to destrot and convert through bribery and treachery every last Hindu;

Believe me, Skdadl, you cannot imagine the power and resources dedicated to our extermination. Those minorities in India are 100 times more powerful than the majority there. They have the power of America, the entire West, one billion Communist Chinese, and the 1 billion Islamic world backing them to the hilt.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 05:33 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You know what's really funny? The way the right-wing and left-wing are both united in their hatred of Hindus.

The right-wing Bush/ Republican crowd is in bed with Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson/ evangelical Christian fundamentalists, and are determined to impose their version of Christianity on India.

The left-wing is determined to back Islamic extermination of Hindus to the hilt and always backs Muslim fundamentalists against India.

The West uses both their right and left hands to beat and punch Hindus. On this forum, usually the left uppercut is very much in evidence.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
historymove
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posted 21 September 2005 05:41 PM      Profile for historymove     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rban, it goes without saying that at every opportunity you vilify Muslims and Islam, and whitewash the obvious fascist-nature of Hindutva ideology....

You're in Canada...grow up...stop thinking about foreign issues and look to fix problems in Canadian society...your apparent adopted homeland. All you do is post obscure articles and rantings about "Hindu genocide". If everyone did that, we'd all go crazy.

You contribute nothing positive to this forum. The only "domestic" topic you post is promoting and glorifying this obscure "Hindu Conference of Canada" organization, with which you are obviously affiliated to, and whose website demonstrates that its grounded in Hindutva ideology.

Yes, Hindus have been victimized in many historical situations. So have Ukranians, Jews, Africans, Muslims, Armenians, Tibetans, Uighurs, etc.

Let's concern ourselves with the future and not dwell too much in the past....look to Canada's future and domestic issues, not to those of India, Argentina, Romania, Swaziland or another nation-state.

And finally, why don't you just admit that you hate and loathe Islam and Muslims with a passion?


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 06:10 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Historymove,

The hammer always tells the nail that the nail has a bad attitude.

Whites always ask people of color to get past the historical injustices and look to the future.

When blacks speak of slavery, whites often tell them to stop spreading hatred against white people.

Whne Jews speak of the Holocaust, some Germans complain that Jews are promoting hatred against Germans.

I actually am not anti-Muslim at all .. in fact I am helping Islam a great deal through my efforts. Here's why:

Germans have healed and progressed because they have admitted the evil that the Nazis committed.. they have paid compensation ...and they have moved on.

Whites have (partially) apologized and atoned for the sins of slavery against black...well, at least they admitted that what they did was wrong.

Muslims have not apologized or admitted that they slaughtered 80 million Hindus. This is why they are having problems today: unlike the Germans and whites, they insist that they are always the victims and never confess that often, they were the oppressors. True advancement and progress can only happen when they admit their sins, apologize, and pay compensation. Once they do this, their problems and issues will be eased.

Hindus have been oppressed much more so than any of those other groups you have mentionned, and unlike others we have received no apologies or acknowledgement from anyone.

I find it strange that you chastise me for not dealing with domestic Canadian affairs. I have spoken and posted about sharia law in Canada, and I know the Hindu Conference of Canada is a high profile group which has published many editorials and letters in Canadian papers regarding Canadian issues. Their website does not mention 'Hindutva' at all... in fact calling someone 'Hindutva' is simply a method for stifling debate. Those who have no facts to back up their point of view esort to simple name-calling and labelling to avoid discussing issues.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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Babbler # 9749

posted 21 September 2005 06:14 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by historymove:

You're in Canada...grow up...stop thinking about foreign issues and look to fix problems in Canadian society...your apparent adopted homeland.

I must say I strongly object to the notion that persons resident in Canada must remove themselves from concerns abroad, especially if those concerns constitute their chief areas of cultural knowledge and experience. However, Rban is doing something quite different from that. Rban is not merely taking every opportunity to apply an understanding of Hindu history to Hindu interests abroad. Rather, Rban is taking every opportunity to apply anti-Muslim rhetoric to issues concerning Muslims abroad on these boards, and that's as massive a difference as one could ever see in this kind of activity. It's the difference between, in another contemporary case, campaigning for recognition of the Armenian genocide abroad and campaigning against recognition of Turkish cultural interests abroad.

"Hindu tragedies demand recognition" is all well and good, but when it comes from Rban, it always seems to end up playing out as "Hindu tragedies demand recognition of the Islamic menace".

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: Yst ]


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 06:25 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And if only I can shield myself from anti-Hindu hatred and prejudice by being in Canada !! Canadians have been brainwashed to a large extent by the media and politicians to hate and look down on Hindus.

This is why on this forum, Rabble, the massive hatred and extermination against Hindus is never mentionned. All other groups get enormous attention here...natives, Muslims, blacks, everyone. But the one group that has suffered the most gets the least support!! Funny, isn;t it? We need support the most, and yet we get the least.

Although I am fairly new, I consider myself to be among the most valuable posters here. I bring information and insight where it is needed. I battle heroically for freedom and democracy and justice. I epitomize the very best qualities of a decent and civil society.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 21 September 2005 06:36 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Hindu tragedies demand recognition"

Yst: in many cases, Hindu tragedies do involve Islam in some way. Am I supposed to hide this? And if there is, let's say, a situation in Ontario where Islamic groups are demanding Sharia law, I apply and post on what Sharia law consequences have resulted in India. I apply context, both historical and cultural.

The trouble is, what you consider to be 'anti Muslim' are simply facts. I have never been 'antiMuslim', but I have been pro-democracy. I think the trouble is one of assumption: just because I am Hindu and am speaking against Sharia law, doesn't mean I am anti-Muslim.

If Pakistan violates human rights and was constructed by driving out millions of Hindus, there is nothing wrong with me stating that Pakistan is an illegitimate state built on the blood of the oppressed. These are just facts, not racism or prejudice.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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Babbler # 10025

posted 21 September 2005 07:41 PM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
code:
         +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.            
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==================================================================


Thenk yew, RB.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: chubbybear ]


From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 21 September 2005 07:42 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
You're welcome.

(For those not following in real time, I reposted CB's post in code and suggested he do that for ASCII art,, but the formatting was still screwed up because babble had already changed it, so I deleted my post, but CB still read it, reposted in code, and thanked me for the now-missing suggestion).

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: RealityBites ]


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 September 2005 07:50 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I consider myself to be among the most valuable posters here. I bring information and insight where it is needed. I battle heroically for freedom and democracy and justice. I epitomize the very best qualities of a decent and civil society.

But your giant head is blotting out the sun and soon we will all die.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 21 September 2005 08:48 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And you know when you have won an argument when someone says 'Don't feed the trolls'. That person has no legitimate response or answer and knows that you are right, so he concedes the field. A tactic of the feeble.

Giant swelled head or not, nothing conceals the fact that no one has been able to match my incisive logic and knowledge on this thread.

You see, intellect, knowledge, and commitment to justice wins out over irrational bigotry, every time.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 21 September 2005 09:08 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
... I consider myself to be among the most valuable posters here.

Doesn't it cost money to advertise on babble?


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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Babbler # 8238

posted 21 September 2005 09:17 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:

Doesn't it cost money to advertise on babble?


I'm not sure I'd call what rban does "advertising", unless you take the philosophy that all publicity is good publicity.

To use an example from another series of threads, if I'm ever visiting Montreal and someone comes up to me and asks if I've heard about the Infringement festival, Optative Theatrical Laboratories, or Car Stories, and would I be interested in attending one of their performances, I will run screaming in the opposite direction as fast as I possibly can. And I consider myself a fan of amateur theatre.


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 21 September 2005 09:23 PM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
Anyway, as I was saying, hey kids, why don’t we put on a show? In fact, why don’t we do one of those 70 word improv things, right here, right now? Spontaneous, see? And because I go first, I get to cheat, and count this introductory blather as part of the 70 words.

Ok, so a person walks into a bar, reaches into a pocket, and pulls out a frog….


From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 September 2005 09:24 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Giant swelled head or not, nothing conceals the fact that no one has been able to match my incisive logic and knowledge on this thread.

Seeing as you're already a parody of yourself, have you ever considered icing that cake by referring to yourself in the third person?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 21 September 2005 09:26 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bob Dole doesn't appreciate that.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 21 September 2005 11:19 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
Canadians have been brainwashed to a large extent by the media and politicians to hate and look down on Hindus.
I'm sorry, but my brain totally missed that washing. While I don't know that much about Hinduism and Hindus, I somehow developed a vague stereotype of Hinduism as a peaceful and benevolent religion and culture, of which Mahatma Gandhi was a shining example.

Earlier, in my school days, I remember some generalized racism by idiots against South Asians, who would be called "Pakis", regardless of whether they were Muslims from Pakistan, Hindus from India or Tamils from Sri Lanka. Those idiots wouldn't know the difference between a a Hindu and a Sikh.


From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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Babbler # 3576

posted 21 September 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
Giant swelled head or not, nothing conceals the fact that no one has been able to match my incisive logic and knowledge on this thread.

In fact, no one even tries to.


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 22 September 2005 02:42 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm interested in the history of India, both generally and through reading a few historical novels (Midnight's Children by Rushdie, which I have to say I quite actively disliked, but the history of the period intrigued me; and the first three books of Paul Scott's Raj Quartet - I still have to read A Division of the Spoils, which I think is about Partition). And I'd like to learn more and be able to discuss the political and religious dimensions of Indian history and current events.

On the face of it, it sounds like Hindus have been persecuted and killed for their religion in other nations and in places in India where they're a minority, and that disturbs me, as all targeted killing of civilians disturbs me. I definitely don't begrudge rban raising this issue. What I do object to, rban (and much more so than your apparent egoism, as we all have our personal quirks), is your completely one-sided treatment of the issue.

E.g., in the article you quoted at the start of this thread, the author raises several apparent examples of human-rights abuses and genocide, all against Hindu people. Now, aside from not placing those abuses in a larger context (was Partition accompanied only by the massacres of Hindus, and none of Moslems? What of the Golden Temple raids, Indira Gandhi's assassination, the Hindu massacres of Sikhs that followed, and the Air India bombing?), the author uses them to argue that the Hindu majority in India should rise up and throw off the "tyranny" of minority groups, despite the fact that Hindu people already control the political process by virtue of their numeric strength. The Hindus, he says, should claim and assert the rights accordant with their dominant position. The author's reasoning and rhetoric here is very similar to that of Western chauvinist movements from the 1930s up until today, as Mandos pointed out. You reproduce this article uncritically, treating all its points as of equal merit, rather than explaining which of its points you think are meritous and which are less so.

I've just seen your post on a thread in the feminist section. I'm starting to question whether you are serious about anything you say here. If you want to approach this topic from a perspective other than the perspective that Hindus are all good and those who come into conflict with them are all evil, maybe we can talk. Otherwise, I'll move on to discussions that can actually be productive.


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 22 September 2005 09:51 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Obscurantist, I will respond to this in the next while, just not right now. I'm busy for next couple of days, but I'll address the points.
From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
periyar
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posted 22 September 2005 10:18 PM      Profile for periyar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by obscurantist:
And I'd like to learn more and be able to discuss the political and religious dimensions of Indian history and current events.

As an antidote to rban, people can check out this site:

"The basic assumptions embedded in the rhetoric of the Hindu right actually finds close resemblance to some liberal and even left of center sentiments. This makes it difficult, but for that very reason especially urgent, to separate out and forge a sustained campaign of vigilance. The examples listed above demonstrate that the various wings of the Hindu right have been promoting a narrow, brahminical version of Hinduism, one that erases any mention - and often condones - the revolting history of Hindu casteism. These views reinforce the view that this form of Hinduism is the only authentic cultural and religious force in the subcontinent. For example the Hindu American Foundation [hinduamericanfoundation.com/campaigns_denverpost_letter.htm], itself headed by a renowned Sanghi, Mihir Meghani regularly disputes questions on the rights of other minorities in India and seamlessly refers to a bounded, static, regressive 'Hinduism' in making its arguments. Compounding this unitary and static version of brahmanical Hinduism is the intolerance of other religions, and the furtherance of the belief that Islam and Christianity are both antithetical to the tolerant, secular fabric of India (by which Hindutva ideologues mean the entire subcontinent) as well as continuing remnants of brutal foreign invasions. This is how the perceived threat of a heightened globalisation can be deployed to condone violence against minorities within India. "


here


From: toronto | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
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posted 23 September 2005 01:53 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks, periyar.
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 23 September 2005 02:21 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So like, I have relatives too who fled India for Pakistan on a very scary voyage at Partition. They survived intact as far as I know by the grace of God, but other people on their midnight trains didn't. So it does offend me that Partition is portrayed purely in terms of Hindu victimization by, ahem, certain peculiar parties.

I also have relatives who stayed and prospered in India, as do many Pakistanis---and I'm both Pakistani and Indian if you consider the citizenship of my parents prior to immigration to Canada. Now you might say that this belies the basis of Partition, but my relatives who went to Pakistan and good reasons to do so, or they wouldn't have made such a risky voyage by midnight train.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
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posted 23 September 2005 03:54 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
I also have relatives who stayed and prospered in India, as do many Pakistanis

I'm always fascinated by the fact that there are probably more Muslims in India than in Pakistan.

Pakistan's population is 151,548,000. And
the percentage of Pakistan's population that is Muslim was 96.28% in 1998. So 145,900,000 Muslims in 2005.

Now if 13.4% of Indians are Muslim and
India's population is 1,087,890,000 that makes 146,000,000 Muslims. And some say there are over 150,000,000 Indian Muslims today.

quote:
US intelligence has traced international terror modules to Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Chechnya, Afghanistan and some Arab countries, but not a single report has linked al-Qaeda or similar jihadi groups to Indian Muslims. Similarly, no Indian Muslims are among al-Qaeda suspects on international lists of wanted criminals or in prison camps such as Guantanamo Bay.

Nevertheless, there have been times when the machinations of Indian politics have left Indian Muslims seething, and their faith in democracy as a weapon to vote political parties in or out of power has been eroded and tested.



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 23 September 2005 04:03 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It depends. My Pakistani relatives describe Pakistan as a guarantor of Muslim culture and history on the subcontinent. It doesn't matter that Pakistan may even have a smaller population than Indian Muslims: Pakistan's existence and founding ideology guarantees a distinct identity for all Muslims on the subcontinent. Not all subcontinental Muslims may agree, of course, but definitely the Pakistanis tend to believe this, and in fact would probably say "like it or not" to those who disagree.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 23 September 2005 11:32 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The simple fact of the matter is that in India the Islamic population has expanded and prospered (I would argue at the expense of the majority Hindus), and in Pakistan the Hindu population has been exterminated or driven out. In 1947, Pakistan was about 20% Hindu; today it is less than 1%.

Those numbers speak for themselves. If this were a tennis match, the umpire would simply yell 'Set, Point, and Match'.

Everyone in the world admits that Pakistan is a respressive dictatorship which oppresses women and minorities systematically. Of that, there can be no doubt.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 23 September 2005 11:49 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's funny how some of these hateful antiHindu reports state that 'well, sometimes Muslims' faith in democracy have been tested'.

Haha, the point is: where do they have it better?? Saudi Arabia? Pakistan?

There's a reason why tens of millions of Muslims could have gone to Pakistan but chose not to. Quite simply: because they have it better in India.

By contrast, Hindus almost to a man were forced out of Pakistan.

Judge not by what people say, judge by what people do. In South Asia (Partitiion), people voted with their feet.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 23 September 2005 11:54 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
Pakistan is a repressive dictatorship which oppresses women and minorities systematically.

Well, not always. Pakistan has an extra 22% of seats set aside for women in Parliament. Not only in the federal parliament, but they imposed this on states like NWFP and Baluchistan which didn't like it, and even on parties like the MMA which didn't want it.

As for non-Muslim minorities, you will see some seats reserved for them in Pakistan too, in about the right proportion for their share of the population.

India, like Pakistan, has 33% women reservation in municipal councils. Attempts in India to extend that to the state and All-India levels have not yet succeeded. I hope they will soon.

I also hope action is taken in Pakistan to stop the war against women in the NWFP:

quote:
Finally, brave Zubaida was elected member of the local union council unopposed. She became the first-ever woman politician of the most conservative area of a most conservative province in Pakistan. She started social service not only for the women but also for the men of the village. She constructed a road from her funds for the village. She arranged clean drinking water for the village and got a lot of respect from the men also. . . Just a few days before the (2005) elections, some armed people entered her house and sprayed bullets on her. Zubaida Begum died on the spot with her 19-year-old daughter Shumaila.

This conservative province is being run by the religious parties' alliance MMA but surprisingly all the liberal and progressive parties were also involved in banning the women to come to the polling stations.

Pakistan is a country where a woman like Fatima Jinnah contested the first-ever Presidential election 40 years ago against a dictator like General Ayub Khan. She lost that election but won in the big cities of Karachi and Dhaka despite the rigging. Pakistan is a country where Benazir Bhutto became the first-ever woman Prime Minister of any Muslim country 17 years ago, despite opposition from the Army intelligence agencies. Pakistan is a country where the number of women members in the two houses of parliament is more than one hundred today. And unfortunately Pakistan is a country where Zubaida Begum was killed only because she was trying to break anti-women traditions by participating in the local bodies election.



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 23 September 2005 11:55 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mandos: Pakistanis maintaining their 'culture' or 'identity' is one thing, but perhaps would they refrain from slaughtering minorities by the millions ??

Much of what constitutes Pakistan today has been looted and stolen from Hindus and Sikhs. A good starting point would be the return of those land and assets.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 23 September 2005 11:58 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wilf: it doesn't matter how many seats are set aside for women in Pakistani Parliament. The nation is a military dictatorship ruled by Musharaff: it is not a democracy and its 'Parliament' has little real power. It's not quite like the Canadian, British, or Indian Parliament.
From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 23 September 2005 06:04 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
rban, millions of Muslims left India for Pakistan as it was then constituted. It's not a question of Voting With Your Feet. If you look at actual numbers rather than percentages, more Muslims moved to Pakistan than Hindus moved out. The percentages look so different because of existing relative proportions. But it's ridiculous to play these games of convenient reinterpretation.

Pakistan has its problems (as does India) but at present even under Musharraf it hardly "slaughters by the millions." The land and assets were settled at Partition in ways recognized by all the South Asian governments, India included---with the exception of Kashmir. Frankly, you are quite obviously hostile to the presence of Muslims in South Asia itself, which is standard to the Hindutva lobby. Every word you write has the opposite effect of what you intend: it justifies Pakistani nationalists in all their claims about India and Hindus. You should be glad my mother isn't reading this (almost as fervent Pakistani nationalist as you are a Hindu one).


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Colville
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posted 23 September 2005 07:28 PM      Profile for Colville     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is interesting.

Mandos, can non Muslims be full citizens of Pakistan, with all rights? What about Hindus?

Rban, do Sikhs and Muslims have full rights in India?

Just asking.


From: Up North | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 23 September 2005 09:06 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
in fact calling someone 'Hindutva' is simply a method for stifling debate.

In fact, this response is simply a method for seeming to refute a charge (an accurate charge in this case, from all evidence) without actually denying it.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 23 September 2005 10:25 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Colville:
Rban, do Sikhs and Muslims have full rights in India?

I would never ever speak for rban but I believe Muslims and Sikhs have full rights in India (which of course is not to say they don't face discrimination and racism).

India's top two posts are held by men from religious minorities: President APJ Kalam is a Muslim and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is a Sikh.

Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3727225.stm

[ 23 September 2005: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 23 September 2005 11:53 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes they do, completely and absolutely.

Now, as for the treatment of Hindus by Pakistan, here is some illuminating evidence. Of course Musharaff does not slaughter and drive away millions of Hindus from Pakistan. That job has already been done for him by his predecessors.

Mandos, you are quite free to bring your mother to this forum as you see fit. Everything I am stating is accurate and can be backed up by facts. If facts are inconvenient to 'Pakistani nationalists', so be it. It wouldn't be right to hide historical facts or avoid stating the truth just for the sake of avoiding the feelings of a particular group. I am confident of my position and the facts at my disposal, and am willing to debate anyone on the issue, anywhere, anyplace. Go ahead and put me on CNN, CBC, BBC ...and let me go head-to-head with any Pakistani historian or Islamic scholar...I don't mind at all.

And on that note, Mandos, you are also making some false charges and accusations here. You claim that I am quite hostile to the 'presence of Muslims in South Asia'. Not so at all. I am hostile to the concept of hiding historical facts or condoning the massacre of millions of innocent Hindus. This is precisely what makes me a strong anti-racist and a principled protagonist for justice, liberty, and democracy.
I am righteous and am struggling for a just cause.

Here is one part of Pakistani activities, in East Pakistan (before it was liberated as Bangladesh):

Senator Edward Kennedy reported in 1971 on the mass extermination of Hindus there by the Pakistani regime:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:A6JPF4qnzLoJ:www.asiapacificms.com/papers/pdf/ethnic_and_religious_minorities_bangladesh.pdf+edward+kennedy+report+on+east+pakistan&hl=en


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 12:00 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Look at the horrors unleashed by Pakistani regime in 1971. This is hitory, this is fact from the website above. Go have a look at the pictures of tens of thousands of corpses, if you don't believe me. This is not a 'Hindutva website'. Here are some excerpts:

"In what became province-wide acts of genocide, Hindus were sought out and killed on the spot. As a matter of course, soldiers would check males for the obligated circumcision among Moslems. If circumcised, they might live; if not, sure death."

"How many died?

The number of dead in Bangladesh in 1971 was almost certainly well into seven figures. It was one of the worst genocides of the World War II era, outstripping Rwanda (800,000 killed) and probably surpassing even Indonesia (1 million to 1.5 million killed in 1965-66). As R.J. Rummel writes,

The human death toll over only 267 days was incredible. Just to give for five out of the eighteen districts some incomplete statistics published in Bangladesh newspapers or by an Inquiry Committee, the Pakistani army killed 100,000 Bengalis in Dacca, 150,000 in Khulna, 75,000 in Jessore, 95,000 in Comilla, and 100,000 in Chittagong. For eighteen districts the total is 1,247,000 killed. This was an incomplete toll, and to this day no one really knows the final toll. Some estimates of the democide [Rummel's "death by government"] are much lower -- one is of 300,000 dead -- but most range from 1 million to 3 million. ... The Pakistani army and allied paramilitary groups killed about one out of every sixty-one people in Pakistan overall; one out of every twenty-five Bengalis, Hindus, and others in East Pakistan. If the rate of killing for all of Pakistan is annualized over the years the Yahya martial law regime was in power (March 1969 to December 1971), then this one regime was more lethal than that of the Soviet Union, China under the communists, or Japan under the military (even through World War II). (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 331.)
The proportion of men versus women murdered is impossible to ascertain, but a speculation might be attempted. If we take the highest estimates for both women raped and Bengalis killed (400,000 and 3 million, respectively); if we accept that half as many women were killed as were raped; and if we double that number for murdered children of both sexes (total: 600,000), we are still left with a death-toll that is 80 percent adult male (2.4 million out of 3 million). Any such disproportion, which is almost certainly on the low side, would qualify Bangladesh as one of the worst gendercides against men in the last half-millennium.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 24 September 2005 12:02 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You claim that I am quite hostile to the 'presence of Muslims in South Asia'. Not so at all.

Then why do you claim that Hindus in India have been "enslaved for 1000 years"? Even dating British imperialism to 1750, that still leaves 750 years of "enslavement" by -- whom, exactly?


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 12:13 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now let me guess: somebody is going to come on here and tell me that all those events are lies. They are all 'Hindutva propaganda', right?

Here is another independent neutral website which shows clearly how in East Pakistan, the regime targetted Hindus for extermination:

http://globalwebpost.com/genocide1971/docs/jurists/4_events_march_dec.htm


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 12:20 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lance,
Now, I never said that I am hostile to Muslims in South Asia (as you well know). A black South African admits that white man came & enslaved him in South Africa...but that does not mean he says white man doesn;t belong in SOuth Africa, does he?

Read your history, Lance. India was occupied, subjugated and enslaved for 800 years before the British, by Islamic conquerors. Again, would you prefer that I lie and hide the truth for you? Would you prefer that I state that Muslim invaders came bearing flowers?

No: black man in South Africa is not required to lie and hide the truth about white invasion.... Hindu man from India also not required to lie and hide the truth. I am all about truth and justice and reality: I shall not lie or hide things. Sorry to disappoint you,


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 24 September 2005 01:07 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Now, I never said that I am hostile to Muslims in South Asia (as you well know).

You didn't have to.

From the first article you've quoted:

quote:
For eight hundred years we watched as our women were raped, our treasure house of books burned (including the world-renowned Taxila and Nalanda university libraries), our temples destroyed, our people sold as slaves to Middle Eastern countries, and killed or forcibly converted.

quote:
By the arrival of the Portuguese and the British, much of Gandhara (present-day Afghanistan) and Western India (present-day Pakistan) was demographically lost to the Muslims.

quote:
The rising, violent Muslim demand for the separate homeland led to the vivisection of one-third of India. As Gandhi was preaching "shanti, shanti" [peace, peace], Muslims perpetrated the most heinous pogrom remembered in partition history, the Noakhali Danga.

quote:
While the rest of the world's democratic, secular countries only allow for one man to marry one woman, India has given Muslims the special privilege of marrying up to four wives, not to mention alimony for only three months.

quote:
Minority institutions, namely churches, madrasas (Islamic schools), etc., in India receive special funding from the government. Likewise, minorities also receive subsidies on pilgrimages, such as the hajj [a Muslim's pilgrimage to Mecca]. Yet there is no such facility for Hindus, even though we have become a minority in six states in India.

quote:
Posters being circulated include one that exhorts young Muslim boys to follow the teachings of Islam passionately and trample upon those who are kaafirs (non-believers in Islam).

quote:
Nepal, the only Hindu kingdom in the world, has not escaped either. The Christian population, which was almost nil in 1960, has increased by leaps and bounds. Billions of dollars have been pumped in for conversion activities. Christians are asking everyone, via the Internet, to save the "lost Hindu" souls of Nepal. Islamic madrasas are cropping up in the border districts. The Muslim population of 2.5% in 1981 has increased to 3.5% in ten years. In December 1998, Muslims held rallies in Janakpur, Sita's birthplace, calling for the conversion of Nepal to an Islamic state. It is indeed apt to ask if Nepal, in effect, is a Hindu state.

quote:
While Americans are displaying pictures of Sri Krishna in gay magazines and branding the images of our deities on lunch boxes and t-shirts, half-way around the world, Hindus are losing their lives to Christian and Muslim fanatics.

quote:
I shall not lie or hide things.

You shall do both. Not sorry to ignore you henceforth.

[ 24 September 2005: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 09:05 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Go ahead and ignore me, Lance. I know fully who and what you are. Every statement you have quoted from that article are facts. Don't let the door hit your butt on your way out.

And also: you ignore me because you cannot argue with my facts. This is a classic tactic: when losing the baseball game, you shall take your ball and go home. When losing the argument just say 'oh, i dont want to talk about this anymore'.

The fact is, you are a vicious and hateful anti Hindu person. You have already been 'ignoring' important things and paying close attention to the trivial for your whole life. Why, in this very thread, you are SO racist and hateful that you ignore the MILLIONS of INNOCENT slaughtered by your Pakistani friends, and instead choose to focus on historical facts which someone has DARED to point out.

It's true: the ONLY rationale for anyone on the planet to ignore millions of Hindus slaughtered is: they don;t care about Hindus, in fact they hate Hindus and would LIKE to see them exterminated. Why don't you be honest and scream what you really believe, Lance? Say it: 'I HATE HINDUS AND PREFER MUSLIMS. HINDUS ARE SUBHUMANS AND I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE SLAUGHTERED'.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 September 2005 09:18 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, that's our 'lance, all right. A vicious and hateful anti-Hindu person. I've been saying that for years -- "Look, babblers: 'lance is a vicious and hateful anti-Hindu person. He's all about hating Hindus, all the time."

I've complained about the anti-Hindu 'lance to audra so often. I can't think why she hasn't banned him.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 24 September 2005 09:22 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Oh, that's our 'lance, all right. A vicious and hateful anti-Hindu person.

He kicks puppies too.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 24 September 2005 10:15 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
He kicks puppies too.
Accoring to the Kitten Konference of Kanada lance is personally responsible for the slaughter of hundred of kittens, which is only a small part of the brutal destruction of millions of kittens over the past hundred years. The Kitten Konference of Kanada is the only organization which is dedicated to the freedom and equality of all kittens everywhere.

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 24 September 2005 10:29 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by chubbybear:
Accoring to the Kitten Konference of Kanada lance is personally responsible for the slaughter of hundred of kittens

Surely you're not suggesting 'lance...


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 24 September 2005 10:29 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Can I nominate my Cat for a position in the Kitten Konfernece of Kanada? Sure her name is Little Kitty and sure she is small but you know, she did recently have her name changed to L to the Motherfucking K so I would like to hereby nominate the ass-kicking L to the MF K to the head job. You would never see so much ass kicking!
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 September 2005 10:45 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My Minerva seconds that nomination of Li'l-to-the-Motherfucking Kitty, Stargazer.

And RB: I fear so. It's sad, really.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 24 September 2005 11:08 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
And RB: I fear so. It's sad, really.

I hesitate to ask, but do such activities disqualify one from BWAGA membership?


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 September 2005 11:13 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, RB, because we consider that one of the lesser perversions, we've been running so far on a "Don't ask; don't tell" policy -- ad hockery, I admit, but I'm having trouble getting a quorum together to firm up our policies.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 24 September 2005 11:29 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
never mind

[ 24 September 2005: Message edited by: chubbybear ]


From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 24 September 2005 11:32 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
oops

[ 24 September 2005: Message edited by: chubbybear ]


From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 12:59 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyone who ignores the slaughter of millions of Hindus is an anti-Hindu hateful bigot, by definition.

Those who commit heinous acts and those who stand by and do nothing while they happen are one and the same.

It's lovely that y'all can make jokes about kittens et al in the same thread that talks about genocide.

Shows how little you 'leftists' really care. Unless it's one of your 'favored victims', you don't give a sh*t.

I judge Lance by his words and actions on this thread, and nothing else. I don;t give two hoots as to what he has done on other occasions. According to his beliefs on this thread, he is a hateful bigot and racist who condones the mass slaughter of Hindus.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 24 September 2005 02:33 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Accoring to the Kitten Konference of Kanada lance is personally responsible for the slaughter of hundred of kittens...

That's a vicious lie, chubbybear. I gave up eating kittens years ago.

Too stringy and gamy -- perhaps because they're carnivores. I switched to puppies, which remind me rather of veal.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 September 2005 02:41 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Aha! Qui s'excuse, s'accuse.

You collared 'im, chubbybear.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 24 September 2005 02:46 PM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:
I switched to puppies, which remind me rather of veal.
I stand corrected. However I shall be informing the Provincial Puppy Partnership of your actions. They are the only group dedicated to the complete equality of puppies.

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
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posted 24 September 2005 02:46 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rban, you're so full of shit its scary.

Last time I was in India, there was a BJP government. They sounded a lot like Bush, pushing 'globalization' and neoliberalism, getting into a nice little nuclear arms race and banging the wardrum against Pakistan bigtime, whipping up religious hatred against domestic Muslims, and basically carrying on like the scurrilous fascist nutters they were....with their rabid Hindu chauvinism and their sordid connections to Siv Sena blackshirts and all that.

I remember my host lazily fulminating against the dirty Muslims in the next village, which didn't prevent his regular trips to Abdelbakar's shop to buy brandy, or his hiring hordes of them to pick his coffee.

Your hysterical communalist ravings are way out of line. Raging against an Islamic invasion...1000 years ago? That brought India some of its wisest rulers and greatest cultural treasures? Go on, then, tear down the Taj Mahal.

The Hindus persecuted? They must be a useless lot considering there are several hundred million of them against the pernicious influences of Christianity and Islam who don't number a quarter of them on the subcontinent.

I don't think Hinduism is about to perish, dude, and you only dishonour it with your militancy.

[ 24 September 2005: Message edited by: Merowe ]


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 24 September 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by chubbybear:
I stand corrected. However I shall be informing the Provincial Puppy Partnership of your actions. They are the only group dedicated to the complete equality of puppies.

I know. I and my henchm... ah, colleagues contribute 75% of their budget.

We hit on this idea after a close reading of Major Barbara, by G.B. Shaw.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 September 2005 02:51 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That was ripping good, Merowe.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
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posted 24 September 2005 04:20 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oooh arrgh; though I just knocked the edges off it with an edit. Gutless, I am.
From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 08:12 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Merowe, you're nothing but a gutless tool of Islamic oppression. You also seem to be illterate, since you are unable to read properly and thus repeat lies that I have already demolished 100x over in my previous posts.

Minorities in India are more powerful than the majority. The minorities have the full backing of Christian fanatics in the Bush administration, and Islamic terrorist regimes of Pakistan and the Middle East.

Muslims were 'wise rulers' and had 'culture' in India? Hahha...you are one crazy loon. Yeah, those 80 million slain Hindus and 40,000 demolished temples sure demonstrate some mighty fine 'culture'.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Comsidering that you loony lefties don't give a f&ck about oppression against Hindus, I'm not particularly inclined to feel any sympathy towards your pet causes either.

That's why when you people babble on about supposed 'oppression' against blacks and natives, I absent myself from the discussion.

The blacks and natives and other races and ethnicities have never suffered even 1/1000th of what Hindus suffer. In Canada today, blacks and Muslims and natives do not suffer as much hatred and discrimination as Hindus.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 09:33 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Merowe is such an irrational raving lunatic that he refers to my 'militancy'. Only a very deranged mind would consider anything I have said to be militant.

"Oh my God: Rban is committing a capital offense!! He is stating history !! What a horribly MILITANT act !! No. no, no, we must all LIE like Merowe and COVER Up the history to please his Pakistani/Islamic friends!!"


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 24 September 2005 10:16 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rban, Merowe put what he had to say in fairly strong terms, but he raised several points that I think could stand to be addressed, and I'm curious about your take on them.

For example, it's my understanding that the BJP (which was in power in India from 1998 to last year, and I think also for a brief period in the late 1970s) is a Hindu chauvinist party (I mean "chauvinist" here in the relatively neutral sense of promoting the Hindu religion and culture, although the term could perhaps also be used in a more derogatory sense). So, what, they weren't pro-Hindu enough or something? They weren't aggressive enough toward Pakistan? Or do you think that they were good enough at these things, but that the traditionally governing Congress Party isn't?

And it's true, as another poster mentioned, that the present Congress prime minister is Sikh. But as I recall, that was because of objections to Italian-born Congress leader Sonia Gandhi becoming PM (which I could see as an understandable concern in a country that was under colonial rule by a European country).


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
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posted 24 September 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The BJP are a bunch of pansy politicians pretending to stand up for the rights of Hindus. They are slightly better than Congress, but they are not in any way a 'chauvinist' party. They just use Hindu rights as a tool to achieve power: they have no real commitment to it.

During BJP rule, the oppression of Hindus in neighboring Bangladesh continued with nary a word of protest from the BJP. Vajpayee, the traitor who masqueraded as PM, did nothing but sacrifice India's strategic interests to Pakistan: he was the gullible idiot who was negotiating 'peace' with Pakistan while they infiltrated thousands of troops into Kargil.

The foreigners control India to such an extent that even the best political parties are a bunch of cowards and traitors.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
historymove
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9851

posted 25 September 2005 12:54 AM      Profile for historymove     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
LOL Rban, I think you will feel more comfortable visiting and posting at the website of your anti-Muslim friends www.hinduunity.org
From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4020

posted 25 September 2005 04:58 AM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Great link historymove! I include an excerpt here:

"The present situation is extremely-serious. The Ascent of Sonia Gandhi to PM
Nomination, is Not a tribute to our democracy, it is a matter of Deep-Shame, it
is a Qalank (Stigma) on the Hindus. Sonia Gandhi is a Hideous-Qalank, she is the
Biggest-Mortification of the Hindu. Hindus will have to live a thousand years to
wash off the Dirt, Filth, and Sewage of Sonia-Qalank, and another thousand years
to wash off the memory, shame, disgrace and dishonor of this Qalank, it is
Damn-Damn Filthy and Foul."

I just love the prose, it's got me giggling over my morning coffee.

The content, of course, is beneath reproach.

Rban, I sincerely tried reading your posts but glazed over pretty quickly - about three paras into the opening polemic a little bell rang in my head. This stuff is so wildly distorted to the service of some irrational passion that it is completely useless as a basis for reasoned discussion, and clearly that is not its purpose. It is crafted to engage the emotions, not particularly pleasant ones and can be dismissed out of hand as simple demagoguery.

I wouldn't sully the term 'argument' by applying it to this rabid prose, but the ragged approximations thereof contained in it are so easily pissed on that I'm not going to waste my time. Such 'facts' as there are are so decontextualized, unsupported, and selectively employed to weave this frankly racist filth that there is really nothing there to seriously engage.

India is a deep and rich country but it has its problems. Cynical political interests no doubt stir ethnic tensions - with their calls to Hinduism, etc. - to divert attention from the appalling inequities to be found there; the longstanding feudal social structure remains firmly in place and you might address your passion to that. You've got people sleeping in the streets by the thousands, the Bombay slums are among the worst I've seen, men, women and children working for a dollar a day and you waste your energy worrying that some Indians worship a different god.

And you expect to be taken seriously?


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10025

posted 25 September 2005 09:43 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
when you people babble on about supposed 'oppression' against blacks and natives, I absent myself from the discussion.
Speaking on the behalf of all blacks and natives everywhere in space and time, thank you.

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 25 September 2005 09:49 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Hey, Merowe: you really got told off good, eh? Ah, I love the smell of fresh invective in the morning.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 25 September 2005 10:48 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Merowe, you are an irrational deluded leftist, so it amuses me no end to hear you talk about 'irrationality'. People on the left try to appeal to emotions rather than logic, and your postings (droppings) here prove it. Whenever you disagree with real history, you try to deflect the conversation by calling people 'racist', or by quoting some other website that I have never seen or referenced in my life.

The poverty and problems of India are of course due to 1000 years of colonialism and oppression and looting by foreign invaders, including the worst of the lot: the Islamic invaders. Yes, sorry to throw reality your way, but check any history book or Encyclopaedia: they all refer to the period 700AD to 1650 as the era of 'Islamic Invasion of India'. Those are facts and unlike you, I don't hide facts.

In real life, I don;t even bother engaging these type of people in discussions..not because they disagree with me but simply because they have no reasoning capacity at all.

Your eyes glaze over when you read something because it simply is not one of your pet subjects. What possible argument could you find with the UN accounts of 2.4 million slaughtered by your Pakistani friends over 1971 in East Pakistan? None, but you just refuse to read it because it violates your rule of 'Muslims are victims, Hindus are oppressors'.

I am ending this discussion now. If people here are not bothering to read the posts or the arguments presented... if they are being judgemental and assuming things in advance, then theere is no point.

I'm a sucker for logic and reasoning, and I'm not seeing any here.

And I also hate all oppression and injustice, and the only thing I see from this forum is an incredibly strong determination from people here to ignore all oppression against Hindus. Their myopic view of the world tells them that certain groups, namely Muslims, blacks, natives, and white women, are victims all the time, and Hindus are nothing but oppressors. They certainly won't allow a snall thing like facts or logic get in the way of those ideas.

You should know that by denying us our pain and our history, you are having the opposite effect and hurting your cause. After having this discussion and pointing it out to a few people, the concensus is that Hindus should ignore and deny blacks, natives, and other such groups any sympathy. Not because those groups have done anything wrong, but because their defenders on this forum insist on supporting the extermination of Hindus.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 25 September 2005 10:52 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is beginning to remind me of ancient routines on Saturday Night Live.

I'm just waiting for someone to say, "Jane, you slut."


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6061

posted 25 September 2005 11:09 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
That's why when you people babble on about supposed 'oppression' against blacks and natives, I absent myself from the discussion.

Great rban, I shall remove myself from your little tirades, since, after all, natives and blacks aren't really suffering "oppression". I noticed you put "oppression" in quotes rban, generally this means you don't think that natives and blacks have suffered from oppression.

You're quite the ass rban and any help you might have expected from me is now toast. And fuck you too for that nasty racist comment you posted that I am referring to. What an asshat.

[ 25 September 2005: Message edited by: Stargazer ]


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4020

posted 25 September 2005 04:03 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
See ya!
From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 25 September 2005 07:51 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This reminds me of the comments I sometimes hear that the Conservatives have sold out real conservative values (comments heard most often on another Canadian political message board that I won't name or provide a link to), or that the Republicans aren't going far enough to usher in an imperial theocracy without any domestic social programs (comments heard most often on American talk radio). It alarms me to think of what these Canadian and American commentators WOULD find acceptable in a political party. Such a party, needless to say, wouldn't stand a chance of forming government in Canada, and as for such a party's chances in the States, I'd really rather not find out.

Does anyone here besides rban know much about the Hindu Conference of Canada? I'm trying to figure out whether it's a broadly-based organization that can claim to represent the interests of Hindus in Canada, or whether it promotes an extreme and unrepresentative point of view. I looked at the website, but it didn't give much of a sense either way, except for the editorials that have been published in the National Post and elsewhere, which rban has reproduced here.

quote:
Originally posted by rban:
The BJP are a bunch of pansy politicians pretending to stand up for the rights of Hindus. They are slightly better than Congress, but they are not in any way a 'chauvinist' party. They just use Hindu rights as a tool to achieve power: they have no real commitment to it.

From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 25 September 2005 08:11 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
This reminds me of the comments I sometimes hear that the Conservatives have sold out real conservative values (comments heard most often on another Canadian political message board that I won't name or provide a link to), or that the Republicans aren't going far enough to usher in an imperial theocracy without any domestic social programs (comments heard most often on American talk radio).

Our friend also seems of two minds about the BJP. On an earlier thread he wrote:

quote:
The BJP and RSS are the apostles of peace, freedom, and democracy.

and referred to the BJP as

quote:
a party that I respect but do not belong to...

From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 25 September 2005 10:11 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, gee Stargazer: I was so expecting your help and assistance here. You have helped so much already, gosh golly: whatever will I do without your tremendous support. All those great threads you started about oppression against Hindus...you mean I'm going to miss out on all those?

Let me repeat for those that did not get it. Blacks, natives, and other groups, when compared to Hindus, have not suffered much oppression. No group has suffered as much as Hindus.

Stargazer: fuck you also. You and others on this forum support the extermination of Hindus and don;t give a fuck about millions of them exterminated, and yet people like Stargazer expect me to cry about some black or native? You laugh and chuckle and are pleased about mass genocide of Hindus, then you turn around and cry crocodile tears and pretend to be 'anti racist'?

I have better anti-racist cedentials than anyone here at Rabble, because I oppose ALL racism, not just racism against a few pet groups.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 25 September 2005 10:23 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sigh. It destroys a person's babblecred to de-plonk someone, but I just want to preserve this little gem against our friend's editing:

quote:
Originally posted by rban:
Stargazer: fuck you also. You and others on this forum support the extermination of Hindus and don;t give a fuck about millions of them exterminated, and yet people like Stargazer expect me to cry about some black or native? You laugh and chuckle and are pleased about mass genocide of Hindus, then you turn around and cry crocodile tears and pretend to be 'anti racist'?

I have better anti-racist cedentials than anyone here at Rabble, because I oppose ALL racism, not just racism against a few pet groups.


(emphasis added)

That is all. Carry on.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 25 September 2005 11:57 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanx for the preservation. It was not necessary since I stand by every word that I have stated and will never make any attempt to edit that post.

In fact, in case anyone misses the point, let me repeat it:
---------------------------------------------
The people of Rabble do not object to or even mention the many instances of extermination of Hindus. When I point it out, they laugh and make jokes. Therefore, they condone the massacre of Hindus. This conclusively proves that they are vicious racists who hate Hindus.
-----------------------------------------------

And don't worry, I will make no attempt to alter or edit this post one iota.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 26 September 2005 12:00 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And there, fellow babblers, you have it.

Mocking ethnic ultranationalists, crypto-fascists (not even so crypto-, either), and buffoons equates to condoning massacres.

Where, I wonder, does this leave someone like Mel Brooks?

Not, of course, that there's anyone else quite like Mel Brooks.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 26 September 2005 12:56 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:
I just want to preserve this little gem against our friend's editing.

I will defend rban on one point. I don't recall him ever editing himself.


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 26 September 2005 10:49 AM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, these guys that look like real ethnic nationalists to me:

http://globalwebpost.com/genocide1971/docs/jurists/4_events_march_dec.htm

I don't need to edit myself because I am extremely proud of what I say. Like a messiah, I bring truth, knowledge and enlightenment to uneducated savages.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 26 September 2005 11:12 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
This conclusively proves that they are vicious racists who hate Hindus.

rban, I would think that an introductory course on logic might be of benefit to you.

Anyway, what do we do when someone groundlessly accuses someone else (or, as in this case, everyone else) of being a vicious racist who hates an entire culture?

Am I the only one who thinks rban should be given the choice of either humbly retracting that accusation, or leaving?

I, for one, don't appreciate being called a "vicious racist" solely because I don't get on board with his increasingly loonier and loonier rants.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3052

posted 26 September 2005 12:50 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My satire-meter is beeping like crazy, and yet I think this guy is actually serious.
quote:
Originally posted by rban:
Like a messiah, I bring truth, knowledge and enlightenment to uneducated savages.

From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595

posted 26 September 2005 01:43 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I don't need to edit myself because I am extremely proud of what I say.

Good to know, I always like the part that comes after an excess of pride.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 26 September 2005 02:19 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Although it would be nice if he edited to correct sidescroll in his link about Ted Kennedy from Sept. 23.
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 26 September 2005 02:24 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr Magoo: it is you and others on this forum that need courses in logic and reasoning. I don;t know what you do when someone makes a groundless accusation, but then again my accusations are never without adequate grounds.

I will say this very slowly so that everyone can understand.

Point #1.
I have proven that Hindus have suffered mass slaughter, both in the distant past and also very recently. I have posted credible non-Hindu links to prove this.

Point #2.
Despite all this overwhelming evidence, everyone here has ignored these facts and have instead laughed, giggled, and joked.

Point #3.
Point 2 proves that people here do not care abpout the fact that millions of Hindus have been slaughtered. This means that they hate Hindus and are vicious racists when it comes to Hindus.
-------------------------------------------------

Case closed. There isn't a jury in the free world that wouldn't award me the case based on this preponderance of evidence.

If people stand by and allow the slaughter of Hindus, they may as well be pulling the trigger and killing the Hindus themselves.

Terrorists and those who support them (actively or passively) are one and the same.

And Alberio, I can assure you that I am 100% serious. Why wouldn't I be? I am presenting facts and logic here, and am encountering hatred and blind paranoia. The logic and reasoning ability of many whom I am encountering is less than that of a 5 year old.

I am introducing the simple elements of reasoning and sensible thought to minds poisoned by deep hate and limitless prejudice. In that, I am fulfilling the proper role of an anti-racist activist of the first order.

Changing the world to make it a better place, eliminating injustice and bigotry, and conveying knowledge and decency to humanity is what I am all about.


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6061

posted 26 September 2005 02:31 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rban fuck you. See you in the banning page. Fuckwit. YOU were the one saying that no other racism existed. YOU were the one throwing charges of racism at everyone else, whilst also claiming, as if you would fucking know Rbanned, that other kinds of racism pales and/or doesn't exist.

Your sorry ass is getting reported. You have ruined far too many threads you nitwit, as well as called me a racist (along with practically everyone else on this thread). Frankly I am through arguing with fools such as yourself. You might have been able to effectively contribute but you only know one thing, and that one thing is all you talk about RBANNED. Unfortunately your vile self is still here. One can hope that you'll be gone by the time I get home.


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6061

posted 26 September 2005 02:34 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh rban? Consider pulling your giant ego sized head out of your ass. You are far from ethical nor non-racist.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 26 September 2005 02:35 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good luck, Stargazer. I'll try again too.

Remember to put, in your subject line to audra, "YO! BABBLER!" so she won't think you're spam. Maybe she thought I was spam.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rban
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9664

posted 26 September 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for rban   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, keep on trying. Of course the intellectually deficient who cannot argue or win a point if their life depended on it rely on the crutch of banning from forums. It is a tactic of the mentally feeble, which fits you perfectly.

And I shall repeat it again to drive the point home:

Yes, all other racism pales compared to racism against Hindus. Blacks and natives and other groups do not suffer as much as Hindus. This thread and forum proves it.

Yes, Stargazer, you are a vicious and hateful antiHindu racist. So is skdadl, and many others on this forum.

No one here is a real anti-racist except for me, unless there are lurkers that I don;t know about. This place is full of hypocrites who pretend to ve 'anti-racists', and yet display the worst bigotry themselves.

They are also cowards who refuse to argue points. Intolerant & arrogant bigots who think their own opinions are the only ones that count and try to suppress all other views in favor of their own vile prejudices.

Gosh, the truth...it does sting badly, doesn't it?


From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 26 September 2005 02:53 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Case closed. There isn't a jury in the free world that wouldn't award me the case based on this preponderance of evidence.

LOL! "Case closed." Where did we hear that recently?

Anyway rban, I hate to break it to you but no, no "jury" would agree with you that anyone who doesn't believe as you do therefore hates Hindus and is a bigot. If you won't believe me then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Anyway, if you're going to continue to insist that all babblers other than yourself are racist bigots, I suspect your time here can be measured with a stopwatch.

And let's be pragmatic: if you're banned (and I sincerely hope you are) then you really can't come back and hope to babble undetected. I mean, what could you do? Post recipes and talk about gardening and bite your tongue about your own purity and magnificence and the HCC's godlike status? Admit it: you can't.

So why not ease up on the hyperbole, maybe make a few apologies, and see if you can stay awhile?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 26 September 2005 02:54 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rbanned, more like it.

[ 30 September 2005: Message edited by: audra trower williams ]


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1299

posted 26 September 2005 03:00 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wonder why no one has taken this guy up on his offer to be a rabble columnist.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 26 September 2005 03:00 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Yes, all other racism pales compared to racism against Hindus.

Stated like a true intellectual deficient.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
historymove
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9851

posted 28 September 2005 04:52 PM      Profile for historymove     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rban, if you hate Muslims so much, why don't you go and join your BJP/RSS buddies in Gujarat who launched the anti-Muslim pogroms in 2002. Why waste yout time here if we at rabble are all 'anti-Hindu'?
From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged

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