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» babble   » archived babble   » USA   » Blind, almost-deaf, wheelchair-using 76-year-old executed in US

   
Author Topic: Blind, almost-deaf, wheelchair-using 76-year-old executed in US
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 17 January 2006 11:55 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess this got lost in all the election topics. Clarence Ray Allen was not a nice man, to put it mildly - he had ordered a killing by a hit man while awaiting trial for another. But this is nutty. Oh by the way, he was diabetic... his jailers were thoughtful, allowing him a slice of sugar-free pie with his last meal.

Are they fucking nuts down there????? Stupid question, I guess.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
CHCMD
rabble-rouser
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posted 17 January 2006 12:09 PM      Profile for CHCMD   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm, fucking nuts . . . yup that'd shallow out the already-not-so-deep gene pool down there
From: 1 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
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posted 17 January 2006 12:14 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Are they fucking nuts down there?????

At least some apparently are. And those "some" are in power.

I always wonder what they get out of it. They must get something out of it. Is there a classification for that disorder in the DSM?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 17 January 2006 12:19 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is the concern for his age or physical infirmity? You may not care for capital punishment as justice, but taking it as justice for the sake of argument, what does it matter how old he is?

I've read at least a few people hoping that Ariel Sharon can pull through his recent massive stroke, solely so that he can face justice at the age of 76.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
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posted 17 January 2006 12:26 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Huh? I certainly would have hoped Ariel Sharon could have faced justice for his role in the Sabra and Chatila massacres, but certainly don't want him, former Operation Condor dictators Pinochet and Videla, their partner-in-crime Kissinger or whomever to get the death penalty.

Alas, it isn't going to happen. Weren't you just a bit disappointed when Pol Pot died in bed, without having even to answer to survivors of the killing fields?

I don't think elderly or frail people should be allowed to walk due to their age or physical condition, but those factors should be considered in terms of sentencing.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 17 January 2006 12:28 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fair enough. I just couldn't tell whether this simply an objection to the penalty, or a special objection due to the man's age.

quote:
I don't think elderly or frail people should be allowed to walk due to their age or physical condition

It took me three reads of this to realize you meant "get away with it", rather than "ambulate".


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 17 January 2006 12:29 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is the impulse somewhat akin to the notion I've seen here and elsewhere that somehow bad people 'escape punishment' by cleverly dying before facing judgement in court?

I think it must be. I mean, dead is dead is dead, isn't it?

I heartily disagree with capital punishment, but do so out of the knowledge that every judicial system everywhere is necessarily 'less than perfect,' not from moral objection to the idea itself.

Edited because 'neartily' is not a word.

[ 17 January 2006: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 January 2006 03:19 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm with Magoo here (if I understand his position, anyway)--
I don't understand what the fuss is about. I mean, I'm against capital punishment period, but it's not news that the Americans have it. If they're going to capitally punish people, well, at least nobody's suggested this old bastard didn't commit the crimes he's being killed for, and if the government is going to kill people, this calculating, vicious hirer of murders is the sort of person that it's least bad for them to be killing. So he's old; big deal. So his senses aren't too great--I've seen no suggestion his cold-blooded little mind isn't still firmly in place. There's nothing about being old or infirm or handicapped that mitigates responsibility.

I'm sure there are lots of other people waiting to be killed by the US government that are way more deserving of our sympathy--kids, mentally ill people, retarded people, quite a lot of people pretty clearly not guilty but hey, it's the person they had their hands on and they were too poor to pay for a decent lawyer. People being killed because they were black in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cops needed someone. This guy? Too bad the government is debasing itself and crafting a violent, revenge-oriented society by killing people, but I can't muster a lot of sympathy for the actual guy they're doing it to.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 18 January 2006 08:45 AM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I don't think elderly or frail people should be allowed to walk due to their age or physical condition, but those factors should be considered in terms of sentencing.


This guy was on death row for 23 years, since 1982. So at the time of his sentencing, he was likely a considerably-less-frail gangster, who had ordered a hitman to murder a teenager girl whose only sin was co-operating with the police in an investigation.

If Dr Mengele had been arrested and shipped off to Israel, would anyone be objecting to his execution because "he's a poor old diabetic man with bad knees"? I doubt it. The most we'd be hearing is abstract, depersonalized arguments about why the death penalty is wrong, which is all that's really warranted in this guy's case.


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
anne cameron
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posted 18 January 2006 10:50 AM      Profile for anne cameron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm more concerned with the possibility Harpo's crowd will get a majority and reinstate the death penalty up here.

There are SO many people who think Homulka, Bernardo, and Picton (who hasn't even been tried yet) should be offed...it's really quite creepy to hear otherwise seemingly sane people holding forth in favour of institutionalized murder.


From: tahsis, british columbia | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mush
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posted 18 January 2006 10:55 AM      Profile for Mush     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Absolutely, Anne. I am also a-feared. Scary what people get in their heads.
From: Mrs. Fabro's Tiny Town | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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Babbler # 6943

posted 18 January 2006 11:02 AM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm more concerned with the possibility Harpo's crowd will get a majority and reinstate the death penalty up here.

What I suspect they would do is hold a referendum resulting in a yes vote, and then shrug it off as the will of the people that the death penalty be reinstated. Probably do the same thing with gay marriage.


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 January 2006 11:13 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Harper is committed to no referendum on marriage. There isn't a movement in the Conservative party, even among the ultra-right, to restore capital punishment.

Needless to say, any such move would have to make it past the Senate (which is likely 90% against capital punishment) and the Supreme Court, which in its ruling on extradition for people facing the death penalty, made it pretty clear that no death penalty law could stand up to constitutional scrutiny.

Harper is going to do enough harm to Canada without worrying about the things he has no intention of doing.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
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posted 18 January 2006 04:45 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What good would executing Dr Mengele have done? The case for executing Eichmann was that if he had lived, he could have been a rallying-point for Nazis. Killing Mengele or any other torturer or dictator won't bring their victims back to life.

I have no pity for this particular man, but I'm opposed to the death penalty, and consider this case particularly grotesque.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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