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Author Topic: Copps: Liberal Party $33 million in debt
Privateer
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posted 24 December 2005 10:04 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAA

HEE HEE - so much for Martin's financial skills

So could this debt damage the Liberal campaign? Consider that the CPC has no debt and the NDP a modest $3 million.

If there is another minority government, especially if its CPC, will it be hard for us to resist forcing the Liberals into another early election that they can't afford. Would this break the back of the Liberal Party, giving the NDP the centre-left?


From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tory Spelling
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posted 24 December 2005 10:16 AM      Profile for Tory Spelling   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
That's what their debt is right now.

Wait til Harper and his team get in and start to uncover how much money the Liberals actually got back through sponsorship.

The Liberals might find themselves about $100,000,000 in debt. They may end up having to shut down the Liberal Party and reform under a new name.

Do people have suggestions for a ne name for the Liberals? Something that captures their true essence.


From: Beverly Hills | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fake_oxygen
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posted 24 December 2005 10:18 AM      Profile for fake_oxygen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How about the Conservaliberals
From: Peterborough | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 24 December 2005 10:37 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Doesn't somebody have historic figures on the debts of Canadian political parties to put this in perspective?
From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 24 December 2005 10:44 AM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The liberal debt figures should not be compared to the tory, ndp and bloc financial sheets. The fact of the matter is that the liberals have an effectively infinite money supply.
From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 24 December 2005 10:50 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by fast_twitch_neurons:
The liberal debt figures should not be compared to the tory, ndp and bloc financial sheets. The fact of the matter is that the liberals have an effectively infinite money supply.

Only if they remain in government. Even a short-lived CPC minority could sink the Liberals financially.


From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 24 December 2005 11:05 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My only question is that if the NDP engages in a hostile takeover of the Liberal Party, what do we do with Buzz? Sell him to the Americans?
From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 24 December 2005 11:57 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tory Spelling:
They may end up having to shut down the Liberal Party and reform under a new name.
They can hire Manning, Harper and Mackay as consultants.

From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Berlynn
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posted 24 December 2005 02:39 PM      Profile for Berlynn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Privateer:
My only question is that if the NDP engages in a hostile takeover of the Liberal Party, what do we do with Buzz? Sell him to the Americans?

Sell him? LOL! Send him to a re-education camp, perhaps.


From: Regina | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 24 December 2005 10:34 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Privateer:
My only question is that if the NDP engages in a hostile takeover of the Liberal Party, what do we do with Buzz? Sell him to the Americans?


Simple.

Privatize him.


From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pierre Cyr
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posted 24 December 2005 11:41 PM      Profile for Pierre Cyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The tories have 275 000 members the libs have 500 000 from the only info I could find thats 2 years old... Id like to find out how many the ndp has to see if there ever was a chance we could takeover the liberal party...
From: Grand Falls NB | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 25 December 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The 500, 000 figure for the liberal party is not an accurate representation. The liberal party gives out a lot of lifetime memberships, whereas the other parties give out memberships that expires.

I think the libs have like 200, 000 members in new brunswick, clearly an anomoly.


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kinetix
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posted 25 December 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're (incorrectly) assuming that we would want it.
From: Montréal, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
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posted 25 December 2005 12:10 AM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Lord Byron:


Simple.

Privatize him.


I like the idea of a silent auction.

As for the impact of this $35 million debt, it will certainly impact the Liberals very heavily once this election is over. Unless they somehow manage to increase their total number of seats, which to me looks pretty unlikely, this debt is going to become an impossible burden. Because the figures since the last election showed that, even while still in office, the Liberals were having a hard time raising cash, compared to the Tories. Of course, the NDP fundraising was slow too, but that's too be expected for a working class party that's just been through an election, and which had an expensive BC election to fight.

To be frank I find this revelation astounding, and I am really surprised this information hasn't received a lot more coverage by all the pundits and elections watchers.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 12:23 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by fast_twitch_neurons:

The liberal party gives out a lot of lifetime memberships, whereas the other parties give out memberships that expires.



The Liberals are also notorious for "selling" party memberships to household plants, family pets and small children, and apparently said memberships are often purchased for these plants, pets and kids (presumably with the Liberals' own money, or with funds stolen from the Canadian taxpayer).

Is it any wonder the mofo's are swimming in a sea of red ink? Competant managers, my ass!

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 25 December 2005 12:29 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not only that, MD, but the election spending has just begun. Are the Liberal going to be $50 million in debt by January 23rd? Its possible. With the new funding rules, that is an impossible debt for a party that is not even that well liked by those who vote for it.
From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 12:40 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Maxx and Hatamoto and all their ilk better start demanding their money up front...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
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posted 25 December 2005 02:11 AM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Maxx and Hatamoto and all their ilk better start demanding their money up front...

Do you mean like a post-dated patronage appointment?

IIRC, David Anderson had a suit against the Govt of Canada over the loss of some contract or appointment or another that occured during the Tory years and Chretien had to tell him to drop it once the Liberals came to power and Anderson became a Minister.

I would really like to know who is holding all this debt at the other end. Is is the banks? Is it a bunch of prominent and wealthy Liberals? Is it Paul Martin and his family for the most part?

In the NDP we have found it damn hard in recent years to get even politically friendly lending institutions like VanCity credit union to lend to the party per se. Individual members who have names, SIN#s, addresses and incomes have to at least co-sign. Now perhaps banks and credit unions are more deferential when the Liberals come calling, but I wonder if they would agree to hold $35 million in debts on the name of a political party, which let's face it, can be a kind of phantom-like creature.

[ 25 December 2005: Message edited by: MasterDebator ]


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 05:02 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Heh... like I said, Maxx and Hatamoto... get yer money up front; never trust a thieving Liberal liar.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
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posted 25 December 2005 04:50 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Privateer:
Not only that, MD, but the election spending has just begun. Are the Liberal going to be $50 million in debt by January 23rd? Its possible. With the new funding rules, that is an impossible debt for a party that is not even that well liked by those who vote for it.

Right. If they are planning a last minute ad blitz in January, who's going to pay for it? Maxx doesn't have that kind of money.

I presume this debt was racked up in the last election, and that surprises me because I thought that the Liberals went into that contest with buckets of cash that had originally been raised by Martin from big business sources during the leadership non-contest.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 07:28 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Oh nos! Paulie might have to empty some of his own pockets to pay the bills, since the Liberals don't have a cash cow like the Sponsorship fund to loot this time around! (We never *did* find out where all that stolen cash went to, did we?)
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 25 December 2005 07:50 PM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hephaestion wrote:

quote:
the Liberals don't have a cash cow like the Sponsorship fund to loot this time around!

Sarcasm or gullibility?


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Sarcasm. Paulie Pockets would never spend his *own* money...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 02 January 2006 09:10 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK, the Liberal plane won't fly today. I believe this is connected to the lack of cash available to the heavily indebted Liberal Party. That, and the crisis among Liberal campaign advisors.

Underfunded, disorganized and plagued with scandal, the Liberal campaign is unravelling before our eyes


From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 02 January 2006 09:21 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Instead of going to Winnipeg, Paul Martin had to stay in Ottawa and eat bagels. I wonder if he'll make it to Winnipeg tomorrow?
From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
the grey
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posted 02 January 2006 11:24 PM      Profile for the grey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Funny that their financial statement (pdf) only shows them with $15.5 million in demand bank loans, and $13.1 million in accounts receivable (some of which would have likely been outstanding 2004 campaign rebates not yet received by 31 Dec 04).

Seems likely that Copps just can't count.


From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 03 January 2006 12:41 AM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wouldn't be so giddy if I were you guys. You'll be first against the wall when conservative common sense revolution comes, and the country is dissolved because, we wanted, ahem, "integrity and honor" restored to the White House, er I mean Parliament. The Americans voted this way, and look what it got them.
From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 03 January 2006 01:43 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ceti:
I wouldn't be so giddy if I were you guys. You'll be first against the wall when conservative common sense revolution comes, and the country is dissolved because, we wanted, ahem, "integrity and honor" restored to the White House, er I mean Parliament. The Americans voted this way, and look what it got them.

What difference is there in the agendas of Paul Martin and Stephen Harper?


From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
groovy-on-granville
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posted 03 January 2006 01:47 AM      Profile for groovy-on-granville     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Right Ceti - and voting grit will do so much for national unity. Everyone in Quebec and the west will feel extra specially Canadian when they think of being governed by these grit yobs for another few years.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 13 January 2006 06:03 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It will not be easy for the Liberals to recover either.
From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged

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