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Author Topic: Why will Layton be targetting Harper?
NDP Newbie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5089

posted 06 June 2004 09:26 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Won't that only scare more people into voting Liberal?

A more appropriate tactic would be to point out how similar the parties are underneath the rhetoric:

Most Conservatives beholden to American and corporate interests, so are most Martinites.

Conservatives support P3s, so do the Liberals.

Bigoted wackos in the Conservatives, but also a fair number in the Liberals.

It's more important to go after the Liberals for their fearmongering (which will hurt Layton, Harper, and Duceppe) and lies (especially as they are similar enough to the Cons to begin with) then it is to beat up Harper because he's a right-wing wacko. (Which I must emphasise helps the Liberals and hurts us if it's done too much.)


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Thrasymachus
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posted 06 June 2004 09:37 PM      Profile for Thrasymachus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree, let the liberals attack the Conservatives and when they do lets simply point out that what they accuse the Conservatives of is also true of the Liberals. As long as there is single member plurality, the name of the game is remaining distinct with the other two looking alike. I'm really surprised haven't heard more made out of the whole Keith Martin switching allegances thing. It would seem to me that pointing out that Liberal health care policy is fine with the former reform party health critic paints our picture perfectly.
From: South of Hull | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 06 June 2004 09:50 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Layton is expected to make another risky break with longtime strategy and grab for the headlines this week when he cranks up an attack on Stephen Harper, accusing him of hiding an extreme right-wing agenda.

"With the Conservatives, I think they are being artfully vague in a Republican way about what they really want to do in office," said Brian Topp, the NDP director of research.

The shift is risky for a party trying to woo most of its votes among left-leaning Liberals, not soft Conservatives. Conventional wisdom says left-of-centre voters who wish to thwart a right-wing takeover move to the stronger Liberals rather than the third-place New Democrats.

But after concentrating on the Liberals for three consecutive campaigns, party strategists note that election-day results have left New Democrats hovering around 10 per cent popular support and scratching for official party status.

This time, they want Layton to compete with Martin as the man to stop Harper. The prime minister is away from the campaign for most of the week attending international events.

"For too long we've gone back repeatedly to what we've done in the past," said one source in the NDP campaign. "If you keep doing that, you can't expect a different result."

The party drafted a document entitled Harper's Dictionary on the weekend, accusing the Conservative leader of hiding a range of right-wing plans, from allowing MPs to push restrictions on abortion and gay marriage to new discussion of imposing the death penalty.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2004/06/06/488654-cp.html



From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
James
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posted 06 June 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
As I suggested two days ago in another thread; I think that this is exactly the right strategy.

Old political maxim: When your opponent is imploding, stay the hell out of the way ! It is wise to ignore the Liberals. Let those who fear Harper see the N.D.P. as a viable alternative.

This stategy will work so long as Layton and the other candidates are careful to present a serious and statesmanlike image. Ed Broadbent should be quite prominent at this time, as he probably has more personal credibility than anyone else on the Federal political stage these days.


From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kanada Dry
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posted 06 June 2004 10:15 PM      Profile for Kanada Dry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JamesR:
Old political maxim: When your opponent is imploding, stay the hell out of the way ! It is wise to ignore the Liberals. Let those who fear Harper see the N.D.P. as a viable alternative.

Ahh....

....but the Lieberals haven't imploded yet.

They are still ahead in the polls albeit by only the slimmest of margins.

This could help breathe some life in the Lieberal campaign and end their downward slide.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 06 June 2004 10:18 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree, it is time to attack Harper. Those who are still supporting Liberals at this point are diehard to the grave (hopefully some of them are disgusted enough to stay away from the ballot box).
I've finally had a chance to talk to a fair number of voters on the doorstep and there is a huge number of people who are deciding whether to vote NDP, vote Conservative, or not vote at all out of disgust.
The most important reason to attack Harper is the Liberals are not as good at it as previous elections. Their attacks are frigged up and look desperate. We're going to have to carry the ball in reminding voters that we're gonna follow the Americans into dumbass wars with Harper in charge. Thankfully, we have a great communicator in Jack Layton.

From: Haligonia | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 06 June 2004 10:55 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Lieberals look like they got their advisors from a kindergarten.

Their tactics make so little sense that it's hard not to laugh.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tackaberry
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posted 06 June 2004 11:56 PM      Profile for Tackaberry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is good news. There is a ton of voters looking to not vote Lib, which have in the last ten days parked with the Cons. Shake them loose again.

And more importantly, this can stop it from becoming a 2 party race, the biggest danger the NDP faces this week, and maybe of the entire campaign.


From: Tokyo | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 07 June 2004 03:55 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It is abundantly clear that Canadians want change. Obviously their disgust at the Liberals outstrips their fear of the Conservatives. The key now is for the NDP to hammer home the message that by voting NDP people can have the best of both worlds: vote down the Liberals AND not have a scary pro-Bush social conservatism.

Now that we know that people want change, we need to ask them "What kind of change do you want?"

In fact, much like Ronald Reagan did with his "Are you any better off now than you were four years ago?" in acing the presidential debate in 1980, Jack has a golden opportunity to score heavily in the debate by asking "What kind of change do you want?"


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 07 June 2004 05:40 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with this strategy as well. It is not only the Liberal-left we are after. There are plenty of uncomfortable red Tories out there who have parked their votes with Harper, despite their disgust with his radical Reform-right history.

The stronger he gets, the more likely it is that these people will look to move their votes elsewhere. We want to welcome their votes when they decide they won't allow a Harper majority.


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
LukeVanc
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posted 07 June 2004 07:07 AM      Profile for LukeVanc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I concur with Privateer. There are an awful lot of "anyone but the Liberals" voters out there right now. We need to make sure they vote NDP and not Conservative, so that they do not inadvertantly elect a Conservative minority government.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 07 June 2004 12:06 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whether it is sound strategy or not is up for debate, but it is clear that the NDP is aiming its guns at the Cons right now. All four press releases that went up at ndp.ca yesterday were about the Conservatives:

Jack Layton comments on Conservative platform
Harper's heroes: Who inspires Stephen Harper? (Bush, Mulroney, Mike Harris, Gordon Campbell)
Conservative math: A catastrophic drug plan, indeed
A Harper's dictionary


From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ubu
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posted 07 June 2004 12:18 PM      Profile for Ubu        Edit/Delete Post
It is right to attack anyone who deserves attacking (verbally, in politics, that is). Centre-left folks thinking of voting Liberal to quash the potential of a Conservative victory will do this based on *polls* and individual riding characteristics, regardless of what Jack Layton says. It is a real problem, and one the NDP have had to deal with more than once in the past. However, such people are more likely to vote NDP if we are the ones who look like we are scoring the points than if we sit back and say nothing to those who most deserve to be attacked.

Edited to add 'verbally in politics'

[ 07 June 2004: Message edited by: Ubu ]


From: position is relative | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 07 June 2004 05:08 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Harper's even more idiotic than he is scary.

90 billion surplus?

Reminds me of the mythical "efficiencies" Ernie Eves had in his 2003 platform when he couldn't figure out how he'd fund his tax cuts while balancing the budget.

(Still its better than the McGuinty tactic of making numbers up as you go along...We should have listend when Hampton called them both to task.)


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
C.Morgan
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posted 07 June 2004 05:17 PM      Profile for C.Morgan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Layton's strategy to paint the Conservatives as extreme may backfire for himself in the worst way.

For one, I see it as an admission that the Conservatives now stand a chance of forming government.

If he lays off the Liberals and is successful in his efforts to target the Conservatives as unfeasible, he may just provoke a strategic vote that will cost the NDP and benefit the Liberals.


From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 07 June 2004 05:44 PM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As was pointed out by other babblers , the liberals are doing more harm to themselves than Jack could do to them. When you attack someone you must be careful not to look like a bully and not to look too strident - in other words use strong logic , good ideas, and a smile , just what Jack is doing.
The conservatives in BC are the threat not the liberals , according to the Visland pundits last night, the libs are imploding in BC. A few more gaffes out of the mouths of the Harperites and Jack's job on the leftcoast will be much easier.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Guêpe
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posted 08 June 2004 01:35 AM      Profile for Guêpe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The way I see turning the guns on Harper works as so. Polls show that 70% of Canadians want a change in gov't. There is 3 weeks left int he campaign. Jack is trying to get Canadians to think "what kind of change they want".

Still loads of time in the campaign.

Also I don't see us gaining any ground...well need to do some of that.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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