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Author Topic: Globe Success Vs Post ?
leftcoastguy
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posted 01 March 2006 01:05 AM      Profile for leftcoastguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Splashy Front Pages Help
quote:
The Globe is widely viewed as having won the newspaper war.

From: leftcoast | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 01 March 2006 06:24 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And it's a bloody crime that their only national competition is the National Post, probably the lousiest paper in the universe.

Are there any real newspapers left?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 02 March 2006 04:06 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They may have won the war with the Post, but their journalistic ethics aren't winning any awards.

Editorial Delusions at the Globe and Mail:
Hamas and the Missing Video

quote:
Mr. Gee failed Journalism 101--he failed to check the source upon which he based his editorial. Maybe he deemed the source credible only because it falls within his simplistic view of the world. In this case, the information the Globe and Mail relied on without questioning came from an extremist website. This is indeed appalling.

This incident reflects a dangerous trend in the media. Journalists like Mr. Gee who in their zeal to push their own right wing agenda eagerly rely on suspect and biased sources. Such journalists have stoked the fires of war and conflict in the Middle-East and they should be held responsible for the brutal consequences of their sloppy brand of journalism.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
leftcoastguy
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posted 02 March 2006 07:00 AM      Profile for leftcoastguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yea well overall since when did successful business have anything to do with good ethics?
From: leftcoast | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 02 March 2006 07:08 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Recently they've (the G&M) published two pieces by Preston Manning, both of which were about the level of Grade 6 'social studies'.

Also recently a piece by Daniel Pipes, the virulent anti-Muslim.

They're almost as bad as the Trashional com-Post.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 02 March 2006 07:47 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And a piece by an anti-Arab bigot [can we coin sloppy, meaningless terms too? i'd like to offer "Judeo-Fascist"!] saying that we have to allow our governments the power to torture and kill anyone, anywhere, or else we'll lose the "War on Terror."
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 03 March 2006 03:39 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to an article in Report On Business today, the Nazional Post dropped a cool $21 million last year.

Now why is it the newspaper totally committed to the free market can't hear what the market is telling them?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
NWOntarian
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posted 03 March 2006 06:19 AM      Profile for NWOntarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm probably a minority here, but I actually enjoy reading the National Post. Some sections of it, anyway. The right-wing slant is obvious, but I find it to be only marginally worse than the Globe.

The Globe tend to be a drier read, though. The Post does some interesting stories on occasion, like when they ran a number of articles about Canadians in World War 2 during the 60th anniversary of it's end last year.


From: London, ON | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 03 March 2006 09:30 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as the "funny pages" go, they *both* suck.

As far as just general content, you can't even make me read the Nazi Pest when it's lying there free in a coffee shop. I'd rather watch televised curling fer gawd sake! Or golf, even!

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
chester the prairie shark
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posted 03 March 2006 11:09 AM      Profile for chester the prairie shark     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The National Post, from a purely paper/page design perspective, wins hands down.
From: Saskatoon | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 March 2006 12:06 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm willing to read widely, but since it collapsed after Black and Whyte's departure, I wouldn't waste my time or money on the Post.

I've always assumed that most of the G&M's comment pages are going to be conservatively slanted (although they have had smarter conservatives - lately, as thwap observes, they have been publishing extremists). What would turn me away would be a noticeable drop in independent reporting, national and international, and I have started to wonder about that. The news pages are definitely getting flabbier - not sure why that is happening. They have some great correspondents, always have had, but I don't know whether the numbers have been cut back.

It's obvious that Greenspon (ed-in-c) is both a conservative and a showman. He doesn't have the flair that the original cast of the Post did, but he wants it; he is trying for it, which explains a lot of the soft, pandering features, I guess. He's got a Style section, eg, that is simply an embarrassment to the human race, but he continues to starve the books and review sections, which really were one of the glories of the Post in its heyday.

So Greenspon can do commerce but not art, not even entertainment, really. It is astonishing how many articles in the current review section have nothing to do with the actual films or music or art or books being surveyed, only with the business background.

Marcus Gee, who is the editorial page editor, also gets space as a columnist - easily the weakest columnist they have, I'd say, which explains a lot about the editorials. He appears to have bought into the war-on-terror scenario 100 per cent - that is pretty much all he writes about.

The editorial page is fun, though, because of the letters column. On any given day, there will be several letters much better than any of the editorials, and probably opposed to the editorials. It is always amusing to think who the readers of the paper are, most of them so unlike the editors. That must cause some gnashing of teeth at editorial meetings.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
NWOntarian
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posted 03 March 2006 12:21 PM      Profile for NWOntarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
the glories of the Post in its heyday.

I assume you mean the Globe? I've never heard 'the Post', 'glories' and 'heyday' in the same sentence before

Personally, with the flourishing of newsmedia on the internet, it's rare that I ever lay hands on newsprint anymore -- unless it's the campus paper (which for the last couple years was able to give the Post a run for it's money on right-wing sludge) or the local entertainment scene handout.

[ 03 March 2006: Message edited by: NWOntarian ]


From: London, ON | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 03 March 2006 01:19 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by NWOntarian:

I assume you mean the Globe? I've never heard 'the Post', 'glories' and 'heyday' in the same sentence before

Noah Richler ran the best books section in Canada until the cuts--easily better on it's worst day than anything the Martin Levin produces in the Globe. I'm very book oriented, and I find the Globe's books section a waste of space.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 03 March 2006 03:09 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
from skdadl:
I've always assumed that most of the G&M's comment pages are going to be conservatively slanted (although they have had smarter conservatives - lately, as thwap observes, they have been publishing extremists).

Yes, but their extremists have nothing on those who make their way regularly onto the pages of The National Post.

In that vein, I think a recent piece by Daniel Pipes (a regular contributor) has to be one of the worst things I have read for a long time.

In an essay fittingly (if not authorially)entitled 'Not our problem,' Pipes actually found a silver lining in the cloud of civil war now descending on the people of Iraq:

quote:
Terminate the dream of Iraq serving as a model for other Middle Eastern countries, thus delaying the push toward elections. This will have the effect of keeping Islamists from being legitimated by the popular vote, as Hamas was just a month ago.

- Reduce coalition casualties in Iraq. As noted by the Philadelphia Inquirer, "Rather than killing American soldiers, the insurgents and foreign fighters are [now] more focused on creating civil strife that could destabilize Iraq's political process and possibly lead to outright ethnic and religious war."

- Reduce Western casualties outside Iraq. Vali Nasr, a professor at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School notes: "Just when it looked as if Muslims across the region were putting aside their differences to unite in protest against the Danish cartoons, the attack showed that Islamic sectarianism remains the greatest challenge to peace." Put differently, when Sunni terrorists target Shiites and vice-versa, non-Muslims are less likely to be hurt.

Civil war in Iraq, in short, would be a humanitarian tragedy, but not a strategic one.


Sure, Iraqis will die violently in their numbers, says Pipes, but there's a strategic upside for our team.

Truly awful.


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 March 2006 03:30 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good night. Do you suppose they paid Pipes for writing those notes? Paid him money?

I can never get over how some people earn a living. That isn't even writing. It's notes. So that's the current level of writing in the Post?

And then, of course, there is the bloodthirsty content.


quote:
Originally posted by NWOntarian:

I assume you mean the Globe? I've never heard 'the Post', 'glories' and 'heyday' in the same sentence before


No. As Simon says, I meant the Post. He is right: during its first regime, the books and entertainment sections were at least lively and sometimes very good. The Globe just never has been able to do that, in spite of some brilliant columnists - Doyle, eg. The Globe books section is a real downer, although I assume that's because Levin just isn't given the resources to run a good one.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pookie
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posted 03 March 2006 03:35 PM      Profile for pookie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
[QB]
It's obvious that Greenspon (ed-in-c) is both a conservative and a showman. He doesn't have the flair that the original cast of the Post did, but he wants it; he is trying for it, which explains a lot of the soft, pandering features, I guess. He's got a Style section, eg, that is simply an embarrassment to the human race, but he continues to starve the books and review sections, which really were one of the glories of the Post in its heyday.

QB]


I'm confused - isn't Greenspon the editor of the Globe?


From: there's no "there" there | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 March 2006 03:42 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, he is.

Why are you confused? I said that he is a showman, or is trying to be, but he is not as good a showman as the first crew at the Post. More clear?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 03 March 2006 03:51 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
...I assume that's because Levin just isn't given the resources to run a good one.

I've always assumed that Levin was a major part of the problem--his own columns and reviews are a deadly bore, so I'm not sure he'd know how to liven up the place supposing he wanted to.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 March 2006 03:59 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Simon, let's be fair. Or at least I feel that I should be, since I don't know him.

They have already scaled him back during his tenure as editor, so that must have been deflating. And to be able to do what Richler was doing at the Post, there would have had to be better co-ordination over the entire review section, I think.

I mean, I'm just guessing, but Richler was running large feature articles and interviews - now, the Grope does that too, but I don't think that Levin is organizing those, so you don't get the same organic feel that you would with one organizing literary sensibility.

Ok. I'm making that up. But it's a good guess, eh?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 03 March 2006 04:05 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now, John Doyle would run a books or review section that I'd love to read.

~~

It's got to the point that I'm starting to not bother buying the saturday Globe at all, and I've been a dedicated Globe reader for nearly 30 years.

If I wanted to read 10,000 words articles on heart disease, I'd buy a medical journal, not the newspaper.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 03 March 2006 04:11 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but Russell Smith is usually okay so far as i know.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
the bard
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posted 04 March 2006 02:58 AM      Profile for the bard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Marcus Gee, who is the editorial page editor, also gets space as a columnist - easily the weakest columnist they have, I'd say, which explains a lot about the editorials. He appears to have bought into the war-on-terror scenario 100 per cent - that is pretty much all he writes about.

The editorial page is fun, though, because of the letters column. On any given day, there will be several letters much better than any of the editorials, and probably opposed to the editorials. It is always amusing to think who the readers of the paper are, most of them so unlike the editors. That must cause some gnashing of teeth at editorial meetings.


I think Margaret Wente is up there in the worst columnist category.

I do enjoy the Globe letters section as well. The reason why the readership is so much more progressive than the editorials - I would guess about 90% of the left-liberal intelligentsia in English Canada reads the Globe. And while the Globe is pretty rightwing (though no more so than the "liberal" NY Times) it's not as hardcore as the National Post, the paper of choice for the corporate libertarian types. Hardly any of these people respect the Globe. And the Globe's endorsement of Harper didn't please these people (since it was so tepid it wasn't very credible), but it did piss off the bulk of its regular readers.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 04 March 2006 10:57 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Has the post ever turned a profit? I don't think it ever has.

Which is telling. It blows bloody big holes into thie idea of editoral independance.

If not to inflict on the public the personal views of the owner, what other possible reason could there be for keeping a big money losing venture afloat long past the point where any sane business sense would demand it's closure?

And what does that say about the ethics of it's editors, columnists and reporters?

At some point, at some level, they are all liars.

[ 04 March 2006: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 04 March 2006 11:13 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
Has the post ever turned a profit? I don't think it ever has.

Which is telling. It blows bloody big holes into thie idea of editoral independance.


Sure, but then the New Yorker has never turned (mmmppppht) a profit (snicker) eith...

(ha ha ha... stop it 'lance)

(snicker)

(damn, I can't help it...)

HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW!

(chuckle... sigh... Ah, me...)

I needed that. No, I didn't think I could use New Yorker and National Post in the same sentence without cracking up, either. But people should challenge themselves once in a while, you know? A man's reach should exceed his grasp, and all like that there.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 March 2006 11:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, and after all, profit isn't everything. I have the feeling that profit wasn't the primary raison d'etre (sorry, no French keyboard here) for the Post. I think their primary goal was to have a newspaper with a right-wing point of view that would reach Canadians. I'm not even necessarily saying that with scorn - after all, I wouldn't have a problem with the same thing from a left-wing point of view.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 04 March 2006 12:15 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But in fairness to my point, it's the National Post that claims to be populist, and holds the "free market" as the ideal, and has had a thing or two to say about ethics and such. The fact that their ideas are not popular enough with Canadians to turn a profit in the market place, and obviously has a staff that often says stuff to please the boss and maintain employment and pass it off as the "truth" as they see it, is irony richer than any cartoon I've seen in "The New Yorker".

'corse, that's not saying much maybe.......


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 07 March 2006 03:27 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Every time I pick up the Post I stumble over a Colby Cosh, David Warren or David Frum article. Inevitably I get pissed off that such knuckleheads get paid so well for such infantile offensive hateful tripe, then put the paper down and go read one of the several indy papers here in Vancouver.

God forbid I make it as far as Leah Mclaren or ....(name escapes me, cribs Ann Coulter rants as a general approach, can't remember her damn name).

Russell Smith is OK.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 07 March 2006 06:45 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Well, and after all, profit isn't everything. I have the feeling that profit wasn't the primary raison d'etre (sorry, no French keyboard here) for the Post. I think their primary goal was to have a newspaper with a right-wing point of view that would reach Canadians. I'm not even necessarily saying that with scorn - after all, I wouldn't have a problem with the same thing from a left-wing point of view.

Let's make a newspaper!


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 09 March 2006 03:44 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If I ever become a multi-millionaire, that's exactly what I'm gonna do.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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