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» babble   » current events   » the media   » Media coverage of the Sept 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

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Author Topic: Media coverage of the Sept 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 12:11 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I figure a thread devoted purely to commentary about the media coverage of the events might be useful...


My networks of choice was ABC and CBC. Scott Feshuk of the National Post appears to agree with my choices. He wrote quite a bit about how Peter Jennings and Peter Mansbridge were the most professional, intelligent, and useful anchors on the air, They were the least prone to reporting rumours or making wild claims.

Citytv did a terrible job IMHO. Very sensational reporting. It appeared that they were reporting rumours that they read off the internet!

The National Post devoted the ENTIRE paper today to the tragedy. The Globe was also dominated by tragedy coverage, but at least they published a small sports section (which was also dominated by tragedy coverage).

The Ottawa Citizen had a couple of sections that were tragedy-free. They published a pretty decent Food section today (devoted to sumptuous hors d'oeuvres). They were the only paper I read today that covered news about events that weren't related to the WTC, contained in a section labeled, simply, "News". The cover story: Conrad Black was appointed to the House of Lords yesterday.

I've heard that producers at CBC Radio are going to have to answer to someone. Yesterday morning, apparently, they continued to have Shelagh Rogers talking to Chuck Strahl about the Rebel Alliance/PC coalition AFTER 9 o'clock. There wasn't even a short bulletin until about an hour into the drama.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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audra trower williams
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posted 12 September 2001 01:29 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow. I've only been listening to CBC radio, but I didn't start listening until they'd already began coverage. A good topic, Mediaboy. I'm looking at the Globe coverage right now, and listening to a call in radio show with Rex Murphy.
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 01:30 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Well, I was a Communications major.
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Trespasser
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posted 12 September 2001 01:43 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I HATED when TV stations showed those 3-4 seconds long shots of street kids somewhere in the Mid-East, with the commentary "Some Palestinians rejoiced this event". Because: 1) Those pictures were not representative of ANYTHING; 2) Women and children are by and large cruelly instrumentalized for terrible political causes; DO NOT legitimize it by interpreting recordings like those as "an expression of general mood of a people".
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 01:45 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Every station I watched tried to temper that 3-4 second shot with a shot of Yasser Arafat looking very very shocked, and offering his condolences, but your point is well taken.
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DrConway
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posted 12 September 2001 01:52 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Incidentally I heard rumors that the footage used of people dancing apparently in response to the WTC attacks may not have been, shall we say, legit.

An analysis of the shadows (if any) in the picture would give an accurate determination of the time of day - which would in turn give the determination of legitimacy or lack of such.

Also, I dunno if you noticed, Mediaboy, but a fellow I know who watched Arafat noticed that Arafat seemed so shaken he had a guy whispering into his ear what to say to the cameras.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: DrConway ]


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 01:59 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
DrConway: I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but are you being serious or sarcastic? I'm confused by the tone of your post. Do you mean that you don't think Arafat was sincere in his condolences? I'm not trying to be snarky here. I just need a clarification. Thanks.


Aside: I can't get CBC Radio One on-line or NPR on-line. They're too congested. I can get CBC Newsworld on-line, but it drops out frequently. Is anybody having any luck getting a good on-line news feed, preferably radio? I want to listen to it in the background while I work today. I should probably just bring a radio to the office, but that would be SO 20th century...

I'm able to connect to abcnews.com. I wonder why they have such a good web connection!

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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DrConway
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posted 12 September 2001 03:50 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
DrConway: I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but are you being serious or sarcastic? I'm confused by the tone of your post. Do you mean that you don't think Arafat was sincere in his condolences? I'm not trying to be snarky here. I just need a clarification. Thanks.

I was being serious. I was observing that from what I was told, Arafat seemed to be having trouble holding himself together. I would not be surprised, honestly, if he needed prompting. A stressful incident like this could make anyone get scatterbrained - especially someone of advanced age.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: DrConway ]


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Doug
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posted 12 September 2001 04:25 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ewww...what with everthing else that happened yesterday, Tubby finally getting his lordship is truly the diarrhea icing on the shit-cake.
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 04:33 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I'm watching the White House press secretary right now. How come press secretaries are never as cool in real life as the ones you see in the movies and on The West Wing? The dude comes across as a real weiner! You'd think they'd hire someone who's a little more photogenic if he's going to spend so much time in front of the camera.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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judym
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posted 12 September 2001 05:11 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is from yesterday.

quote:
This is a time to think about death and rage. To think about it for once, and to pause. Will we too be burned at the stake or something similar if we say that "terrorists" are people made by their circumstances, not born hankering to kill or to kill themselves.

Live reports from Manhattan
Laura Flanders, WorkingForChange.com

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 05:34 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Ugh, I just lost a little respect for ABC news. Connie Chung filed a really syrupy, sensational report about people who are trying to find relatives that were in the floors above the crash sites. It was pretty exploitive, I thought.

Right now, Barbara Walters is spinning her particular brand of syrup about individual victims. Gross.

I've had mixed feelings about ABC news for years. Their nightly news can be really good, but their investigative news programs and newsmagazines can be SO fluffy and syrupy.


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'lance
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posted 12 September 2001 05:35 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm watching the White House press secretary right now. How come press secretaries are never as cool in real life as the ones you see in the movies and on The West Wing? The dude comes across as a real weiner! You'd think they'd hire someone who's a little more photogenic if he's going to spend so much time in front of the camera.

For once I wish life did imitate TV. The press secretary would be competent, cool, and collected (to say nothing of photogenic), but more to the point, so would the President.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 September 2001 05:38 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Gawd. Now Barbara Walters is interviewing Bebe Neuwirth(sp?) about the death of the executive producer of Frasier. Hard-hitting news, indeed!
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skdadl
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posted 12 September 2001 06:03 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Re CBC radio 1: Their 9 a.m. news yesterday (just before Sheila) did report on the first plane crashing into the WTC, and just before she began her Alliance interviews, SR said something briefly about the crash (I'm not sure whether she knew about the second plane). I happened to be looking at judym's new thread as I was listening (medium: so C20!), and I saw Michelle's post about the second plane. That was when I adjourned to the TV set downstairs.

So as far as I know, Michelle got the scoop.


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Michelle
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posted 12 September 2001 06:09 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wish I hadn't. I saw it live. It was just stunning. There's no other word for it.
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Terry Johnson
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posted 12 September 2001 07:45 PM      Profile for Terry Johnson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Like trespasser, I've been bothered by the endlessly repeated pictures of Palestinians--mostly children--celebrating the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon.

What is probably a more accurate picture of Palestinian reaction comes from Reuters:

Reuters report on Palestinian vigil

It, of course, has received very little media play. And there hase been no video footage--at least none that I have seen--of the dozens of Palestinians who staged a candle-lit vigil outside the US consulate in East Jerusalem.

I was also sickened by the bizarre spectacle of Henry Kissinger on CNN lecturing us on the need for the US to strike back at terrorists. This came the day formal attempts were made to charge him with the murder of the head of the Chilean military, General Schneider (Schneider was no friend of Allende but opposed an anti-Allende coup as unconstitutional) and on the 28th anniversary of the Kissinger-instigated coup itself.

But that's another story.


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Michelle
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posted 12 September 2001 07:54 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, there has been video footage of the vigil - it has been on Newsworld in the past couple of hours (can't remember exactly when). Lots of flowers, candles, and sad people at the US Embassy. However, the announcer did accompany that video with commentary that said something like, some believe that this is a damage control campaign by the Palestinian Authority, to put these images (video of Palestinians celebrating) out of people's minds.
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DrConway
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posted 12 September 2001 08:04 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
People are so bloody cynical.
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'lance
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posted 12 September 2001 08:10 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
However, the announcer did accompany that video with commentary that said something like, some believe that this is a damage control campaign by the Palestinian Authority, to put these images (video of Palestinians celebrating) out of people's minds.

Damn. Did no one earlier point out the possibility that the "celebrations" might not have been as spontaneous as all that either, but triggered up by Hamas?


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Michelle
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posted 12 September 2001 09:45 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My thoughts EXACTLY, 'lance. It really bothers me that they are framing the vigil as a big set up, but yesterday they framed the celebration as the mood of Palestine.
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Trespasser
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posted 13 September 2001 12:13 AM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Could all those so-called policy experts, and American and Canadian journalists and politicians cut the "civilization vs. barbarianism" crap!? Civilization has always been worship of force. How can you keep deluding yourself that the line between "civilization" and "darkness" runs somewhere outside of you, and not within you? Besides, those attacks would not be possible without some of the most cherished fruits of civilization - sophisticated science, technology, tons of coordination, planning, training... Barbarians couldn't care less about giving any kind of symbolism to their employment of force; "civilized warriors" do, all those who believe in sacrificing themselves and others for the "just" cause.

Second, I heard enough about a "suspect who likely came to the USA from Canada". SO WHAT? If any of the hijackers did come to the USA from Canada, that means that they carried US VISAS and that the US immigration authorities were those who admitted them to the country. I fail to see what in this picture is Canadian problem. If they entered the US with forged visas, isn't that an issue for the US INS and State Dept? And enough about that Yarmouth ferry already.


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rasmus
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posted 13 September 2001 12:55 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Tresp, I would guess these hijackers were mostly US citizens.

Terry, thanks for that link. Unfortunately we have some racists -- yes, racists -- on the list who are interested in dehumanizing the Palestinians whenever they can, adopting the age-old "they're baby-eaters" type of smear campaign. "Thay're not human, we are." That's what's implicit at any rate. It's pretty nauseating.

So many people, including George Will in today's Post, have adopted the "they hate us because we're so wonderful" line. This isn't morally advanced. Moral advancement starts by always looking at your own faults, and how they may have contributed to a situation. It involves trying to understand how someone else could feel what they do, not constructing a convenient, self-regarding narrative in which you yourself are completely without fault. But America and Bin Laden have one thing in common -- they've raised self-righteousness and self-exculpation to a high art.

Of course, this doesn't mean we ignore others' wrongs. But the instinct to defend and excuplate oneself is always to be mistrusted. It may be that there are times when I am in the right, and I may choose to defend myself, but I always try to be guarded and ambivalent about my motivations. Self-justification without this circumspection is, to me, a sign of barbarism.

The Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita, has something to say on this. Arjuna, the main character, is beset by doubts. He is called on to fight and kill his teachers, his relatives, even friends, and he suffers a crisis of conscience. Krishna teaches that if one can act without regard to the fruits of one's action, then one can act virtuously when doing one's duty. Some people take this to mean blind performance of duty is acceptable. But the crisis of conscience is key.

So what I'm saying is that it may be the right thing for the US to retaliate (I don't think so, though), but I'd feel more comfortable if there were a whole lot more soul-searching going into it, instead of the belching, enthusiastic aggression we see now.

Well I managed to ramble there a bit, didn't I?

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


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rasmus
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posted 13 September 2001 02:43 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh dear, double post. 'lance, I have no idea why anyone cares about double posting. Do you care? I don't. Anyhoo.

Both the CBC and the BBC tried to give some balance, and tried to say the fundamental reasons for this, the imbalance in US policy and the resentment that it creates, will have to be addressed. The BBC also talked about discrimination against Arabs resulting from the event and its coverage. The CBC interviewed lots of intelligent, articulate Muslims, including Faisal Bodi whose column I linked to yesterday. I believe the reporter's name was Carol Off??? Someone correct me.

One of the commentators had the good sense to point out that each attack on US targets has beeen met with a response, and each subsequent attack has been bigger. There's no reason to believe this retaliation will have any more deterrent effect. It's like one of those simple IQ test questions, what's the next member of the series? I mean, pay attention, are they getting bigger or smaller or what, and what pattern do you see? The fundamental flaw in US thinking is that specific individuals are the cause, and not systemic political imbalances and socio-cultural phenomena that can't be destroyed without perpetrating genocide. The only solution is to bring balance into US policy. And it's the one solution no one's talked about.

Anyhow, I'm not going to link to all the individual stories, but today's Guardian has some good columns which can be accessed from this page:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/0,6957,178089,00.html

Meanwhile the Philadelphia Daily News, in a very civilized, Christian vein, says in a piece called "Revenge,", "It is time to inflict casualties. All we crave is blood for blood...."

I particularly recommend these columns from today's Guardian, though others are good too:

They can't see why they're hated

Shock Waves

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


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Trisha
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posted 13 September 2001 03:18 AM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think her name is Carol Ott but not 100 percent sure.

"Blood for blood..." and innocent children are being beaten up in Canada and the U.S. Why when idiot men do the dirty deeds do innocent men, women and children have to be punished? No child did this. No matter what does or doesn't get done, all middle-eastern ancestry Canadians and Americans are going to be in danger for a long time.

Hatred is the most horrible and destructive of all our emotions.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 13 September 2001 10:13 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
There has been a lot of cynicism and tasteless remarks from folks on both the "left" and the "right" this week. Nobody is immune.


Today's Globe and Mail: 5 of 6 sections devoted to the tragedy.

Today's National Post: Three sections devoted to the tragedy. The arts section has a lot of tragedy coverage, but also other coverage.

Today's Ottawa Citizen: About 3/4 of the paper is devoted to the tragedy. They've included normal sports, city and arts sections today. One interesting piece of news: Tobacco firms to reduce global advertising. The story isn't on the on-line version of the paper.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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Trespasser
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posted 13 September 2001 11:21 AM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just a note: it's Carol Off, and I too was pleasantly surprised by how balanced the National tends to be these days.

On the other side, Larry King Live is probably the worst reporting that one can find. Last night's show was scary.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Trespasser ]


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 13 September 2001 11:23 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I saw that CH News (a Hamilton station) had a muslim as their "expert commentator". I thought that was pretty courageous of them.
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Auntie Phreemarket
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posted 13 September 2001 12:18 PM      Profile for Auntie Phreemarket     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Today's London (Ont) Free Press front page headline reads 'We Will Win', a Quote from Prez Dubya. Both Bush and Colin Powell have deemed this tragedy as an act of war, and obviously intend to pick a fight about it. Does anyone else think this is a horribe idea?

Obviously The american gov't has no real concern for the wellbeing of it's people. If it did it would be putting all available funds (practically infinite)into stepping up security, increacing national defense (in the true - non-Orwellian sense of the term), instead bombing the hell out of whoever they believe to be the terrorists. A counterattack would prove nothing, except the flexing of american muscle, and is more likely lead to more terorists attacks on the american people, than if they took a defensive stance.

It greatly troubles me to hear that so many americans are in favour of a counter attack. It's a shame to hear that so many have been indoctrinated by images such as those of celebrations in the streets of Palestine (which could have been anything); today's equivalent of Saddam Hussein taking premature babies out of incubators, leaving them to die on cold cement floors - clearly propaganda to steer popular opinion towards offensive military action.


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Trespasser
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posted 13 September 2001 12:19 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyone read Mark Steyn's column today?

quote:
Should our easy-come-easy-stay immigration policy be found to have played any part in what happened, we should be ashamed, and at the very least discover some limits to our much vaunted "tolerance."

quote:
More representative, I fear, was Alexa McDonough's demand that we reaffirm "our commitment to pursuing peaceful solutions to the tensions and hostilities that breed such mindless violence." The violence wasn't mindless, only Ms. McDonough's reaction to it. When the NDP next offers her up to the Canadian people as a potential Prime Minister, it's worth giving some thought to the kind of world she'd have us live in. In The Ottawa Citizen, in a column headed At Times Like This, We Thank God That We're Canadians, Susan Riley was at least honest enough to skip the peacenik fluffiness and acknowledge the feeble self-interest behind Alexa's brave "commitments": "Our best protection," writes Ms. Riley, "may be distancing ourselves a little more explicitly from U.S. foreign policy. That doesn't mean insulting our largest trading partner, or countenancing terrorism, but pursuing a reasonable and moderate course in the world's trouble spots."

I went to the archives and dug out Ms. Riley's memorable column of September, 1939: "Our best protection may be distancing ourselves a little more explicitly from British foreign policy," she wrote, "pursuing a reasonable and moderate course in the world's trouble spots, like Czechoslovakia."

Here's the thing: When you "distance" yourself from the U.S., you move yourself closer to barbarism -- closer to the people behind Tuesday's assault. That strikes me as a repugnant thing to do, though I concede some people might genuinely believe it to be "reasonable and moderate." At Durban last week, the UN's Mary Robinson was "reasonable and moderate" to a fault: What mattered to her was not what the agreement said but getting an agreement, any agreement. But, in the matter of evil acts, the reasonable and moderate position is harder to discern: Would blowing up one tower be acceptable? Hijacking only two planes?


quote:
This is freedom's fight -- not an argument about "foreign policy" or "tensions and hostilities," but a war on values. Our Prime Minister talks a lot about "Canadian values," but, since he and Mr. Trudeau set about redefining the nation, our values have been that we have no values: we pride ourselves on according all values equal value -- whether the elderly Legion man with his memories of Juno Beach or the bright-eyed young Tamil writing his cheque to the bombers back home. Indeed, those of us foolish enough to question these alleged "Canadian values" are told we're "not really Canadian" (Richard Gwyn in The Toronto Star the other week) or advised to jump in the car and drive south (Warren Kinsella in The Ottawa Citizen).

From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 13 September 2001 12:20 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I'm upset by the irresponsibility of the Ottawa Citizen's headline today. "We Are At War".


At this moment, that statement is patently untrue.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 13 September 2001 12:30 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From today's Toronto Star, it appears there will be a major attempt to blame Canada's immigration laws for the attack. That is, the fault does not lie with the airlines which failed to prevent access to their planes, but with Canada for failing to prevent access to the US.

I remember both the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the War Measures Act, and expect some vastly unnecessary measures to be passed by Parliament with near unaniminity. We should all remain skeptical
of unsupported demands for solutions which
limit liberty, but in fact simply place power in military and right wing hands.


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Michelle
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posted 13 September 2001 12:36 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh God, on Newsworld they're showing a bunch of family members holding up pictures with information about missing family members. They're all crying.

This is sensationalism at its worst. It's disguised as a way for families to put contact their families, but come on. You know damn well that's not what it's all about.

Then again, maybe that's what we need in order to "get it". I'm back to numbness after having it hit me last night.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 13 September 2001 12:38 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, they did that sort of thing on ABC last night, and it really bugged me. I'm surprised that the CBC would stoop to that sort of thing.

OTOH, I'm glad I'm not directing the Newsworld broadcast today. Imagine the enormity of the decisions the broadcast director has to make today about what to put on the air, and how little time he/she has to make those decisions.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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Trespasser
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posted 13 September 2001 12:50 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's a good one on Hillary Clinton, from Cockburn and St. Clair:

quote:
In the aftermath of the attack, calls for retribution mounted rapidly, few with more venom that the oration in Congress from the junior senator from New York, who was positively blood curdling in contrast to Mayor Rudy Giuliani's commendable performance as a leader and as a public voice counseling against over-hasty identification of the attackers.

This is worth quoting:

quote:
Declan McCullagh, political reporter for Wired, has described how within hours of the blast FBI agents began showing up at internet service providers demanding that they place "Carnivore system" traces to track e-mail traffic on their systems. In some cases the FBI offered to underwrite the costs of installing "Carnivore". McCullagh quotes one Microsoft engineer as saying that Microsoft "officials have been receiving calls from the San Francisco FBI office since mid-Tuesday morning and are cooperating with their expedited request for information about a few specific accounts. Most of the account names start with the word 'Allah' and contain messages in Arabic."

Palestinians have been denied visas, and those in this country can, under the terms of the Counter-Terrorism Act of the Clinton years, be held and expelled without due process.



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Auntie Phreemarket
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posted 13 September 2001 02:24 PM      Profile for Auntie Phreemarket     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Oh God, on Newsworld they're showing a bunch of family members holding up pictures with information about missing family members. They're all crying.
This is sensationalism at its worst.

I think it's good that the media is showing how this incident has affected people indavidually, my only problem is that nothing of this sort is shown after, say, a US bombing of Iraq kills hundreds of civilians, who are also searching for loved ones.


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rasmus
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posted 13 September 2001 02:36 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CBC Newsworld -- staffed mostly by nincompoops, may I say right now -- has a very good interview in which the feeble candlelight of Kathleen Petty's banality and ignorance was blown away by the experience, honesty, and intelligence of Robert Fisk. I'm going to start a different thread on that now.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Salim
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posted 13 September 2001 03:30 PM      Profile for Ian Salim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If only all the news got out:
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/13/LatestNews/LatestNews.34803.html

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Michelle
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posted 13 September 2001 06:43 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Ra'anan Gissin, a senior aide to Sharon, called the incident "journalism under terror."

Yeah, I'm sure Israel never censors their press...


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 13 September 2001 09:57 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
PBS' prime-time programming has been very well done. For the past two nights Bill Moyers has conducted conversations with religious leaders and professional therapists about the healing process.

Tonight, there is a special edition of Frontline. They're replaying a 2 year old documentary about Osama Bin Laden, updated to include new information about him, and anchored by Bill Moyers. So far, the documentary has been very fair, IMHO. So far it hasn't pulled punches about US involvement with the Saudi Arabia monarchy.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 14 September 2001 10:52 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Oh no.

The National Post's more freakish columnists are starting to publish their anti-"left" tirades. Corcoran, Coyne and Fulford are in rare form. There's an editorial by George Jonas entitled "Killing terrorists is an honourable thing to do".

At least Blatchford is sticking to stories of NY rescue workers and family members of victims. A little syrupy no doubt, but at least she ain't rattling sabres.

One editorial compares the tragedy to Columbine, but on a more massive scale. I'm sympathetic to this one. Individuals striking against their (perceived?) bullies in a way that's beyond our sense of scale. Also, groups from all sides of the political spectrum using the tragedy to further their own causes, just like in Columbine.

Anywho, if you wanna read the Post editorials, here's the link. http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 14 September 2001 02:52 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I was surprised to see a text crawling under the omnipresent footage of airliners striking the World Center. It said: "Congress
may pass $20 billion Anti-Terrorism bill today."

I think it would be nice to know what is in this bill. PRes. Bush does not need it to launch air strikes, so it must contain some further authority. I thin a repsonsible press would tell us about it.


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rasmus
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posted 14 September 2001 03:15 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know what's in it, JH, but the dollar amount is officially $40 billion after an agreement between the White House and Congressional leaders. (CNN)
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 14 September 2001 04:12 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
My respect for Peter Jennings just jumped through the roof.

He just mentioned on ABC news how interesting it was too see the US national anthem being sung in Ottawa this morning.

He said it was somewhat surprising considering how much Canada has suffered intellectually and culturally for its close relationship with the United States.

Good Carleton boy, that Peter!


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Salim
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posted 14 September 2001 05:06 PM      Profile for Ian Salim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually Israel's press is among the freest in the world--much to Israel's detriment. Unfortunately, much of what goes on in the Palestinian territories is heavily censored with journalists facing the threat of death if they report things that the PA, Hamas or Islamic Jihad doesn't want reported.
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Judes
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posted 14 September 2001 05:12 PM      Profile for Judes   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think CBC's the National is doing a great job covering events. In particular, Carol Off has had some excellent features focussing on who the terrorists might be and on Ben Ladin. There have also been a couple of very interesting and deep interviews with survivors.
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 14 September 2001 05:34 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Goodness. ABCnews.com has had over 10 million posts to its message board.

Peter Jennings continues to impress me. He's very quick to correct his own colleagues when they use spurious reasoning or make grandiose statements.

(Maybe I should cut out the butt-snorkling right about now, eh? I doubt Peter's reading this and thinking about giving me a job. )

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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Auntie Phreemarket
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posted 14 September 2001 06:32 PM      Profile for Auntie Phreemarket     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Has anyone seen the canadain military recruitment commercials on CBC yet? I just saw 2 in the span of 20 minutes. This scares the shit out of me. How much military involvement does the PM have in mind for Canada? Why the hell should we have to sacrifice lives, because america internationally hated for thier oppressive actions?
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judym
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posted 14 September 2001 08:05 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This has NOT been confirmed by a member of rabble's editorial board:
http://indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63288&group=webcast

CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE of celebrating Palistinians to manipulate you by Marcio 10:32pm Wed Sep 12 '01
(Modified on 2:17am Thu Sep 13 '01)

I'd like to add some ideas from here, down south. There's an important point in the power of press, specifically the power of CNN.

All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors, and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of you have been seeing (just as I've been) images from this company. In particular, one set of images called my attention: the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making funny faces for the camera.

Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an issue.

A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991, with the very same images; he's been sending e-mails to CNN, Globo (the major TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify as a crime against the public opinion. If anyone of you has access to this kind of files, search for it. In the meanwhile, I'll try to 'put my hands' on a copy of this tape ...

Márcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil

(edited to indicated that it was in fact NOT confirmed by editorial board member)

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]


From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 September 2001 09:36 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Judy, you have contacts at CBC, don't you? If you know that those are fake, and you have proof (do you have proof? does anyone?) then you should either tell them at CBC, or at least post your proof here on rabble.ca in a big article.

You know, every time I watched those clips, I thought, "That could be any time, any place. There is nothing that identifies this celebration with the event, nothing at all." It could have been a family reunion or a holiday for all we knew.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 15 September 2001 03:38 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Apparently if you look closely at the recycled footage the Iraqi flag is being waved, which is the tip-off.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 15 September 2001 04:19 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is it?
Is Iraq not a state that has (as "they", Palestinians?, think) suffered at the hands of the US?

Could it not be an expression of "solidarity"?
Or say they think Iraq was behind the bombing?


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 15 September 2001 04:36 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The point is that the footage was allegedly of Palestinians celebrating the WTC disaster.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 15 September 2001 05:04 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know. I’m taking the side that presupposes it’s real. If it is real, then they are happy it happened. If they are happy then the are grateful to who did it. If they are grateful to who did it then… they fly an Iraqi flag?
I’m not trying to be facetious, just explaining my logic.

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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 15 September 2001 09:23 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
It seems to me that CNN would have to rediculously stupid to try and pull a stunt like this. It's too easily debunked.

Still, maybe they really are just that stupid.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 15 September 2001 10:04 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey, it had its intended effect.. at least initially. Everybody I talked to said that they lost 'all or most' sympathy for Palestinians and/or Arabs after they saw that clip.

It wasn't till after the dust cleared that people started noticing hanky-panky and sloppy reporting. For example, the newspapers rushing to practically convict those 10 men who were questioned by the feds - I believe the feds had to issue a statement clarifying that none of them were under arrest and that all had been released except for one who was still being questioned.

They seemed to rather take pains to point out that they were not jumping to conclusions and that they were following due process.

Score one for sanity in the US government - along with Dubya's plea to not overgeneralize about a whole ethnic group just because factions of them commit terrorist attacks.


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Trespasser
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posted 15 September 2001 11:27 AM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Although the spending bill was passed unanimously by the Congress, there was ONE person in the House of Representatives who voted against the bill that authorizes the President to use "all the necessary force" in retaliation. It's a woman representative from California, Barbara Lee (??? didn't get fully her last name) who said that "she had to listen to her conscience and believes that unrestrained force is always wrong". (ABC News)
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 15 September 2001 11:54 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I've been thinking more about the alleged faking of the "celebration" footage.

I don't think it's very likely that CNN (or any other news outlet) would consciously fake footage like that, because it would be too easy to debunk the fraud and the outlet would lose a shit-load of credibility if it was ever found out.

That being said, it is highly possible (and even probable) that a tape of that sort would have been given to CNN by unscrupulous individuals, and the news director didn't check out the authenticity of the tape very well before broadcasting it. TV news has a bad history of sloppiness. Also, the control rooms on Tuesday were more than likely areas of barely-controlled chaos.

If I was the broadcast director, and I had tapes coming at me from multiple sources, would I have time to check them all out sufficiently? I'd have to rely on the judgement of my producers, reporters, and other subordinates. Just one sloppy producer could have dropped the ball and slipped the tape past the human filters.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 15 September 2001 01:03 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's all true, but I've also seen pictues in the Globe (unrelated to the video) of people celebrating.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: clockwork ]


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rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 01:10 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If this is true, then -- and I know there are several people on this board with media contacts -- can someone please pass it on to people in the mainstream media? Those images have GOT to be debunked if they're not true.
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skdadl
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posted 15 September 2001 01:18 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would remain sceptical: somewhere in all I've read over the last two days, someone described the full BBC (?) report that film came from, and it was being narrated by a BBC (?) reporter, who was apparently present, on the film, and offered a semi-qualification of it ("There aren't very many," or something like that).
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rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 01:21 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fair enough, then. That was my initial objection -- there are about ten people, in one town, at one time, and it's being shown over and over and over and over again despite the obvious effects this footage will have. Even if it's genuine, it's incredibly, incredibly irresponsible of the networks to have run it. It plays into the worst traditions of racist propaganda, hate-mongering, and dehumanization. How do they justify it? Oh don't bother I know already, I know the type who never makes any mistakes, is never wrong.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agent007
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posted 15 September 2001 02:08 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ras, perhaps you may wish to consider the fact that the Palestinian Authority has threatened the journalists who filmed the celebrations in Gaza and the West Bank.

Here are some reports on what happened:
from the Jerusalem Post
Another from the JP
From your favourite, Ha'aretz

Of course, all the above could very well be a devilish conspiracy by Satan and little-Satan, a.k.a. the USA and Israel, against the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians.
After all, hasn't the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem labelled both the Americans and the Israelis as being "the sons of monkeys and pigs"?
And we all know that the Grand Mufti speaks the absolute Truth, all the time. Right?! Therefore, I would say that the celebrated footage is a vile hoax by CNN and their incompetent ilk; and all the above reference to celebrations is a cruel distortion of the real facts: The Palestinians celebrating in the streets were actually lighting candles and begging to hug their Israeli neighbours in solidarity...
Shame on our news media, eh!


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 02:14 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Relogged, it may well be true that those crews were threatened . However, that wouldn't change the fact that the way the clips were used, the way such "news" has always been used in the past, is to promote hate and racism.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agent007
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posted 15 September 2001 02:47 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Message deleted... no longer useful.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 15 September 2001 02:50 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As you know, relogged, historians of political anti-semitism have generally constructed their case by writing histories that isolate the most extreme statements made by Talmudic scholars and so forth. Extreme Jewish apologists have done the same by isolating the worst examples of Jew-hating in the Christian tradition. It is possible to write a completely factual but highly selective (and therefore completely inaccurate) history of Judaism that focuses on the Meir Kahanes of the world. Likewise, it is possible to isolate the statements of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, or of Christian extremists over the years, that would be completely factual but would feed into a racist project. Demonizing and dehumanizing other groups usually goes hand in hand with promoting your own extreme point of view. Therefore I can't condone the way the footage has been used, or your suggestion (and Ian Salim's) that this coverage of the Palestinian/Israeli question should give prominence to such things. We could as well focus on the many Israeli fanatics, or focus our coverage of America on white separatists.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 02:52 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd be curious to know whether you agree with what I've just written above. Further, I'd like to remark that I don't think I have ever tried to focus on the Meir Kahanes of the world in order to construct some grand arguments. In criticizing Israel, I am criticizing the state of Israel, its policy, and its leaders. I am also criticizing those who voted for them, which may be a large number of people. What I'm not doing is isolating that lunatic who went in and shot up a mosque in order to say, "See! See what these people do!" Relogged, you must admit that this is exactly what Ian Salim has been doing. He almost always prefaces such links to stories about Palestinian extremists as being about "Palestinians" or "the Palestinians". You've never protested that. And you seem to be trying to promote the same "news". That, and the way that demonizing other people has historically been a tool for justifying all manner of racism and aggression, made me snap, and make unwarranted assertions.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agent007
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posted 15 September 2001 03:30 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ras, apology accepted.

As to whether or not I agree with you, I'm afraid that I am at a serious disadvantage: I am neither a historian nor a scholar. Thus, I cannot comment one way or the other due to my inadequate background. And it is too complex a subject for me to even begin to fathom, let alone doing the necessary and rigourous research demanded by such a project.
So, forgive me if I pass on this one.

One note, since I mentioned the Mufti: He has just been arrested, as per the following:

quote:
21:20 Sep-15-01, 27 Elul 5761

Jerusalem Mufti Arrested by Police for Incitement
(IsraelNationalNews.com) Police arrested the Jerusalem Grand Mufti for incitement following his calls to murder Jews in recent sermons delivered from the Jerusalem Temple Mount. The Mufti also met with Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah and has violated laws barring travel to an enemy nation.

Also questioned by police was the Mufti of PA-controlled Ramallah who was in Jerusalem without a permit. The two were released following questioning.


The above is from URL=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/ this website.[/URL]

edited to fix the URL.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]

[URL=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/ ]This should do it.[/URL]

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]

I'll try one more time:

Here

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 03:44 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Relogged, you don't have to be an historian. You just have to ask yourself whether focusing on these stories fosters racism and encourages hatred and extremist responses.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


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clockwork
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posted 15 September 2001 03:49 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just a note about Palestinians and Hamas and bin Laden, etc. I wouldn't be lumping them together (I found this out reading all that Arab news). It's not quite like lumping the Salvation Army, United Church, Catholic Church and Pat Robertson together, I don't think, but it's similar.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: clockwork ]


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 15 September 2001 04:23 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Regarding the "faked palistinian celebration footage" story: I ran the story past the folks at a newsgroup about propaganda (many of the posters are journalists and journalism professors). One reply I got claimed that one person in the footage was wearing a World Cup 1998 t-shirt, which makes it unlikely that the footage is from 1991.

Also, if Palestinians weren't celebrating in the streets, wouldn't Yasser Arafat be complaining loudly about American media lies?


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 15 September 2001 04:37 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks, mediaboy, for the clarification.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agent007
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posted 15 September 2001 06:12 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ras, the message is now completely deleted.

It took long to do due my better half dragging me out to do shopping and other such mundane things.

I notice that you have changed your message to add further comment, to which I shall try to reply after dinner.

L8r.


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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posted 15 September 2001 10:10 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
About these celebration pictures, what if they're about something that doesn't concern the west at all, like a religious holiday or something? Even a 1998 Tshirt doesn't prove it was connected with the events in New York. These people have a country of their own and events that could trigger celebration without it involving us. Now, if they were burning an American flag...
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 15 September 2001 10:26 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Although the spending bill was passed unanimously by the Congress, there was ONE person in the House of Representatives who voted against the bill that authorizes the President to use "all the necessary force" in retaliation. It's a woman representative from California, Barbara Lee (??? didn't get fully her last name) who said that "she had to listen to her conscience and believes that unrestrained force is always wrong". (ABC News)

This is off-topic, but I was struck by this. In 1964, Johnson's Gulf of Tonkin Resolution passed the House unanimously, but in the Senate there were 2 No votes (out of 100).


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 September 2001 09:25 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
These people have a country of their own and events that could trigger celebration without it involving us. Now, if they were burning an American flag...

...then it still could have been pretty much anything since American flags are burned in that region every other day. (Okay, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean.)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 16 September 2001 10:15 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Debunking rumours: I went out to a couple of parties last night. I'm getting really tired of people who continue to spread wild rumours they have no evidence for. Last night people were adamant that there were actually five (or more!) planes that crashed, and that the gov't is covering it up. There were people saying how the USAF shot down the Pennsylvanie plane. The gov't has confirmed that two F-16s were targeting the plane and were prepared to shoot it down. It crashed before they had to make a final decision about whether to shoot it down or not.

One person was saying how a plane crashed into a shopping centre somewhere. It turned out she was actually referring to the Washington Mall.

It certainly doesn't help that even the most competent news agencies were reporting some of these rumours on Tuesday. Then again, I wouldn't want to be a broadcast journalist on Tuesday. There was too much uncertainty, and you have to put SOMETHING on the air, just because of the nature of television.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
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posted 16 September 2001 10:28 AM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry for the delay in giving a response about the allegation that some video footage might have been a response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1991.

As I was deciding to post, I called a contact at the CBC. I no longer have access to a news video library, so I thought it was worth approaching someone who did about this claim.

I had also decided not to post this story here, but obviously something went wrong.

The allegation is NOT that there were no celebrations, but that a specific sequence was used from the past. My contact at the CBC is sure that the (British) ITC footage of the celebrations is legit. Neil Macdonald knows the journalists involved. There are reports that their lives were threatened if they allowed the footage to be aired.

I'll be talking to my contact at CBC on Monday to see whether anything panned out.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]


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Trisha
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posted 16 September 2001 10:30 AM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The reporters have no choice but report what is coming in on more-or-less official lines. I noticed that a few of the TV commentators kept saying this or that was unconfirmed at this time. It would be very difficult during the state of stress and excitement to be sure of everything you are given to report.

Some scenes of the second tower being hit show another plane flying away from the towers. The U.S. planes would be in the air within minutes of the first strike and patrolling the air above Washington and New York. It will be a while before all the confusion is cleared and some things may never be known. I know I heard something about a plane near Camp David on one report but nothing more after that.


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judym
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posted 16 September 2001 12:12 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
 How can a longtime associate of terrorists now be credibly denouncing "terrorism?” It's easy. All that's required is for media coverage to remain in a kind of history-free zone that has no use for any facets of reality that are not presently convenient to acknowledge.

Hypocrisy and talking heads
What the national media is not telling you about these terrorist attacks
Norman Solomon
workingforchange


From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
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posted 16 September 2001 12:58 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Edward Said: There Are Many Islams
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29

posted 16 September 2001 01:03 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Media wake-up call
When television aims to entertain instead of inform, we fall victim
Arianna Huffington

quote:
 Hindsight is always 20/20. But we'll forever wonder: Would the World Trade Center still be standing today if the Hart-Rudman report had been spotlighted instead of swept under the Gary Condit rug?

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agent007
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posted 16 September 2001 01:17 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ras, I'll try to address your last two posts. For starters, I'd better clear the air.

1) When rasmus_raven writes, I take notice... not just because of what he has to say, but because of his style of writing: perhaps one of the most eloquent styles that I have had the pleasure of coming across.

2) In addition to his inimitable style and exquisite syntax, r_r has shown that he is a master of paralipsis -- an art that has eluded my efforts, but which I readily recognize nonetheless.

3) As a result of (1) and (2), I have come to expect nothing but preciseness of meaning... in everything written by r_r and addressed to me.

Thus, I might be forgiven if I take exception to what was posted.

In reply to the first of your last two postings, I reiterate that I am neither a(n) historian nor a scholar. Hence, what historians and scholars do, or not do, is beyond me. And as an ordinary mortal, I couldn't care less about how they construct their case(s). I will only comment, if and only after they have offered their works for public consumption.

quote:
Demonizing and dehumanizing other groups usually goes hand in hand with promoting your own extreme point of view. Therefore I can't condone the way the footage has been used, or your suggestion (and Ian Salim's) that this coverage of the Palestinian/Israeli question should give prominence to such things.

In another time, many years ago, I was a newspaper reporter -- an investigative reporter, to be exact -- and had written, on many an occasion, about the odd sin of the high-and-mighty. To which they objected, quite strenuously. The only "extreme point of view" that I adhere to -- quite strictly -- is the unshakeable tenet of Journalism: FACTual reporting.

The references that I have supplied are links to highly regarded, and influential news organizations. If you do not like what has been reported, it's not for me to question. But it is factual. And timely. And relevant. And nothing in those reports suggest that the reporters' aim is to demonize and dehumanize the Palestinians.

If that's what you see in those reports, then G-d help us all... because if the very brightest, amongst us, are so prone to viewing world events through preordained, ideologically fitted blinders, hey, this is were I get off, because we are on a one-way track to earthly hell.

As to your second post, its structure and tone are an extension of the above, and therefore, I'll skip commenting on it because I hate to repeat myself.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 16 September 2001 01:31 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
relogged, it is patently obvious to me, anyway, that rasmus was using the second person there ("your") in the standard colloquial sense, to mean "one's," the latter being most arch in English.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 16 September 2001 02:34 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, skdadl, in the first instance it was clearly the impersonal "you". I really wasn't using this as the normal second person "you". It's an unfortunate lacuna in English, our lack of a comfortable impersonal. Next time I'll use the passive voice. I can't squirm out of the second one, er, "you", however!

relogged, I'm not denying that those reports are factual. But part of making the news is choosing *which* facts to highlight, and this choice is partly a matter of selecting for novelty and salience, but it is also intrinsically political and ideological, or, latterly, commercial. You (you, you) know that as well as I. So it's fair to ask what the ideological reasons for choosing this particular news, which is pretty much about fringe elements in that society, might be, especially in the light of how such news has been used in the past. I'm worried that you, relogged, aren't very circumspect about this.

As for the paralipsis... I'll take it as a rhetorical compliment, and a moral criticism.

In other news

I wanted to comment on the complete piffle being put forward as journalism on TV. Sorry, most of these journalists are ignorant, stupid airheads. I feel confident saying that at this point. I know they have to keep spewing out verbiage as the cameras are rolling, but wouldn't a little scepticism now and then go a long way?

Mediaboy, you don't like speculation but I see on the mainstream news that as we are gearing up to bomb the crap out of someone else now, it is taken for granted that Bin Laden is behind this on the basis of absolutely no evidence, even the shadow of evidence, having been offered that this is so. I'm not defending Bin Laden, but it would be nice if this were a decision based on facts. (And to me facts do not equal what comes out of the mouth of a CNN reporter.)

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 16 September 2001 05:36 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And another thing. I have generally been very impressed by the composure of affected people when they're interviewed. But there inevitably comes a time in the interview when the interviewer, without any preparation, butts in and says -- often cutting the person off, taking advantage of their vulnerability by disorienting them with the element of surprise -- "but how are you feeling?" and the interlocutor bursts into tears. Often it's not even a relative, it's just some person they're interviewing for whatever reason. This is trash TV. It's manipulative, it's disrespectful, it's tacky. It's Jerry Springer as respectable journalism. Does the order come down from above, "I want tears!!" I don't know and I don't care, I hold them all responsible as institutions and individuals. At a certain point, a reporter should have the dignity to say, "I won't do this." And why do the interviewees put up with it? Perhaps we only see the ones who do, which means the representation of those people is also distorted.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agent007
rabble-rouser
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posted 16 September 2001 08:32 PM      Profile for agent007     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
r_r, let me state, unequivocally, that if I were to participate in a debate and were offered the option of selecting a partner, I wouldn't bat an eyelid and demand that it be rasmus_raven. You, r_r, are superb.

Before I comment on the newsworthiness of the subject story, please take a look at this, from

The Beirut Daily Star.

I mention the Beirut paper, because it shows that the story about a number of Palestinians celebrating the attack on NYC was noted by most newspapers, including those who are friendly to the Palestinian cause.

The attack on the WTC was a big story. The celebration in the streets of various Palestinian communities (in the Middle East) was in direct response to the attack; therefore, it too became front-page material.

There is no way to minimize the significance of either event, nor can anyone possibly rationalize and justify the occurrences.

It must be remembered that reporters do not make the news. Reporters simply record what they witness. These two, particularly intertwined, stories were (still are) of monumental importance. Chastising the editors who highlight these big events meets the criterion of "shooting the messenger."

I have no knowledge of how TV journalism works. If some interviewer hastily butts in, it's probably due to the nature of the medium... something akin to our poetics goddess jumping in to teach me basic English.

Now, ras, you have noted that some "(most) journalists are ignorant, stupid airheads." On that score, I may have to agree with you.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: relogged ]


From: Niagara Falls ON | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
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posted 16 September 2001 09:35 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am sorry to jump into other people's discussion to state the obvious but:

A very sophisticated propaganda can be created without falsifying a single thing. It's all in the reporter's decision as to what's representative. There are some easily detectable habits in mainstream American TV networks' reporting about Middle East, for instance, that are being overused since the WTC attack (or probably since the Durban conference on racism). Footage that is supposed to 'illustrate' and 'represent' Palestinians by rule contains pictures of people shouting, having a row, uncontrollably waving hands, threatening, or being inexplicably cheerful, prone to silly singing and dancing. If it is to judge by these pictures, they spend most of their time on the streets and go everywhere in close-knit groups.

Also, close-ups can be used manipulatively. I don't see the point of showing Arafat's face in the close-up, unless you want your viewers to be struck by his unflattering looks and old age.

You can choose shots in which politicians look lost, and those on which they look in control. And so on. There's this whole politics behind choosing representative images.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: Trespasser ]


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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Babbler # 518

posted 17 September 2001 12:33 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Somewhere this week I read a story about the
Palestinian "celebration" which mentioned in passing that it occurred inside of the Shatila Refugee Camp. I had not known of this thread or would have noted the source more carefully. Shatila, of course, was the locus of a mass murder of civilians orchestrated by Gen. Ariel Sharon.

From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29

posted 17 September 2001 01:13 AM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Sabra & Shatila: The slaughter in the camps at Sabra and Shatila took place between 6:00pm on 16 September 1982 and 8:00 am on 18 September, in an area under the control of the Israeli army. Sharon’s troops, having held the camps under siege, allowed Phalangists to enter. Israeli searchlights illuminated the camps, while Israeli army personnel watched through binoculars as the death squads spread unchallenged through the camps. Whole families were murdered, many were raped and tortured before being killed. So many bodies were heaped into lorries and taken away, or buried in mass graves, that the exact toll will never be known, but Palestinian sources estimate at least 2000 people were killed.

After an international outcry, Israel established an official inquiry commission headed by Supreme Court Chief Justice Kahan. The commission (Final Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Events at the Refugee Camps in Beirut, 7 February 1983, chaired by Yitzhak Kahan, president of Israel’s Supreme Court) found him indirectly responsible for the Sabra & Shatila massacres as he did not move to prevent them, forcing his resignation as Defence Minister.


from Israel elects Ariel Sharon
The Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights & the Environment


How could they cheer?

quote:
For many Americans one of the most shocking aspects of Tuesday's carnage was the jubilant scenes it triggered in some parts of the world. Gary Younge on why many saw Manhattan's burning skyline as a delicious form of revenge

Gary Younge
Guardian Unlimited
September 13, 2001
(This article does not confirm that cheering came from the Shatila camp.)

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]


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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 17 September 2001 09:11 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

If some interviewer hastily butts in, it's probably due to the nature of the medium... something akin to our poetics goddess jumping in to teach me basic English.

Small point of information, though: This thread is a private conversation?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
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posted 17 September 2001 09:42 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rachel Giese wrote a good column fof the Toronto Star about the media coverage. Too bad she said indymedia.com instead of indymedia.org.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Salim
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posted 17 September 2001 11:25 AM      Profile for Ian Salim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fact: Recent polls in the PA territories this summer showed 78% of Palestinians supported suicide bombing in Israel. If you support the concept of suicide bombing, you support the concept of suicide bombing.

As for the media:

PA unapologetic on confiscating rally footage
By Lamia Lahoud


JERUSALEM (September 17) - Palestinian Authority actions to confiscate film footage of Palestinians celebrating the terror attacks on the US were logical to prevent the media from painting the wrong picture of Palestinian sentiment, Bassam Abu Sharif, an adviser to PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, said yesterday.

"This was a normal preventive act... we don't want to give more to the Zionist propaganda which portrays all Palestinians as terrorists," he said. "The idea is that these people were not allowed to film, because a small group of people on film would represent the Palestinian people as a whole."

He said only a few kids held up pictures of bin Laden, and the police arrested journalists and confiscated the film of those who defied orders not to film an illegal demonstration.

Abu Sharif charged that Israel has violated press freedom far more than the PA and accused Israel of taking advantage of it for its own propaganda.

"How many were injured and killed by the IDF? How many times have cameras been broken... there are soldiers on trial for severely beating an Egyptian camera crew," he said.

Journalists and cameramen have complained that they have been threatened by Fatah activists for planning to show footage of celebrations, and there have been reports that Palestinian policemen detained cameramen who filmed a Hamas demonstration in Gaza on Saturday at which Palestinians carried pictures of Osama bin Laden.

PA officials countercharged that pro-Israeli media are trying to portray the reaction of a handful of people who were celebrating as the Palestinian attitude.

Commenting on the complaints by the Foreign Press Association, one Palestinian source responded: "Let them not send any spies next time."


AS for JUDYM's quote about Shatila, I hardly consider the Palestine Human Rights organization she quoted to be a credible source of news.


From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 17 September 2001 11:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you consider the Kahan Commission to be "credible"?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 17 September 2001 11:43 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ian S,

What should we conclude from these reports?


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554

posted 17 September 2001 11:57 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
An interesting article from Scott Feshuk: http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/columnists/story.html?f=/stories/20010917/691580.html

As tv critics go, he's a pretty good one.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Salim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 337

posted 17 September 2001 12:03 PM      Profile for Ian Salim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We should conclude that the Israeli handling of what took place in Lebanon was irresponsible. I don't believe what the Palestine Human Rights organization alleges in its totality but Israel should have outlined the rules of conventional war to their Christian Lebanese allies (they may have for all we know). That is, the Lebanese fighters in the camps should not have carried out what took place. It should be noted that nobody has really commented on the amount of resistance put up by Palestinian fighters in the camps and whether there were heated battles after which all hell broke loose where the Lebanese fighters began massacering civilians. My guess would be that given we were in Lebanon that there were armed fighters on both sides and that the Lebanese Christians won the battle and killed civilians during and after the battles. By the same token, Israel was not going to send its own troops into the camps because it did not want to incur the troop losses.

As for the Palestinians celebrating in Shatila, the West Bank, Gaza and elsewhere. to me, it seems many people on this thread were not that upset with suicide bombings in Israel (or at least thought that they were justified given the "plight of the Palestinians"). Similarly , the international community, particularly in Europe, were more concerned with the Israeli response to the suicide bombings than the bombings themselves as a tool of war. It is my belief that the Islamic fundamentalists figured that the world didn't care much if a few Jews got blown up in Israel and that if they bombed a few Americans, the world wouldn't care either. After Durban, the Islamic fundamentalists were emboldened by the belief that the world hated America and that attacks on the USA would be justified by American's foreign policy. They were wrong in this as shown by the world reaction (although here and in various other places, like Rick Salutin's columns, suicide bombing is understandable given the US's evil empire status), particularly in Europe and are now engaged in serious damage control. That's my take.


From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29

posted 17 September 2001 01:53 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
More about the assertion that some footage of celebration was false:

quote:
Ridiculous tale
From EASON JORDAN, Chief News Executive, CNN: The suggestion that CNN used 10-year-old images to illustrate Palestinians celebrating the terrorist strikes in the U.S. is baseless and ridiculous. The videotape was, in fact, shot Tuesday in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew and included comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden, who was not a Gulf War player. The more interesting story -- it has the added value of being true -- is that Palestinian officials have threatened journalists for taking pictures of these Palestinian celebrations.

Jim Romenesko's MediaNews Letters

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]


From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 17 September 2001 02:12 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An aside: Someone way back mentioned that Arafat seemed stunned, or shaken, when he first responded to the attack. We watched his first full comment; it took some time for him to make, and I thought the shakiness was something more, and even more natural, than shock. I believe I've heard before that he has Parkinsons (?); I could be wrong, but that was certainly my impression, that he has that or some similar condition.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554

posted 17 September 2001 02:50 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Here's an article about my man Jennings: http://www.sunspot.net/news/printedition/bal-te.critic16sep16.story?coll=bal%2Dpe%2Dasection

It illustrates how sloppy news coverage can cost lives. Mayor Giuliani has complained that false news reports have sent rescue workers on wild goose chases.

I got the article from http://thedailyplanet.com , a website about journalism and media put out by Humber College.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 17 September 2001 02:56 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't think he would have exactly been in full control of his muscles then, if he *was* shaken in the first place.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
tracyac
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1065

posted 17 September 2001 08:12 PM      Profile for tracyac     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK, what does everybody think about Rex Murphy and cross-country checkup on CBC? I don't listen to him very often, since I find him generally condescending to the people who call in, but I found his handling of the attacks in the U.S. especially bad.
I happened to catch some televised coverage of his radio show on CBC Newsworld on the weekend. First of all, it's really weird to watch Rex Murphy listening to other people talk. What is gained by showing a radio show on television, besides seeing Rex rolling his eyes. Here's one for you, Rex.
It seemed to me that all he was looking for were emotional responses to what had happened, and if the caller did not fit his ideal, he was quite uncooperative. And, when one caller was making a point that Rex agreed with, he completely cut the person off, seemingly so that he could make the point himself!

From: Ottawa | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554

posted 18 September 2001 10:11 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I didn't listen to Rex this weekend. I often enjoy his radio show, but I don't make a point of listening every week. I guess I didn't want to listen to every bone-headed meshback with an opinion on the bombing. I wanna avoid call-in shows like the plague for the next little while. Once they start talking about Chretien's corruption and the Canadian Alliance's ineptitude again, I might start listening.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 18 September 2001 05:44 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Long thread!
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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