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Author Topic: US Army executes five children in Iraq
Frustrated Mess
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posted 15 March 2006 11:38 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Television pictures showed 11 bodies in the Tikrit morgue -- five children, two men and four women ... Major Farouq Hussein, said all the bodies had gunshot wounds to the head.

Reuters


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
skeptikool
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posted 15 March 2006 11:58 PM      Profile for skeptikool        Edit/Delete Post
No problem. Just call them terrorists - the children, that is. A few more to add to the thousands.

Can you say C-O-L-L-A-T-E-R-A-L ?

Here is Bush delivering democracy, and all you people can do is whine!


From: Delta BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 16 March 2006 01:22 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The North American media no longer bother reporting all the U.S. atrocities committed against the people of Iraq -- especially when it doesn't fit into the "civil war" scenario:

U.S. kills 11 (from Al Jazeera)


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 16 March 2006 01:28 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Saddam court gags media (Al Jazeera)

quote:
The chief judge in Saddam Hussein's trial has closed off the court to journalists after the former president called on Iraqis "to resist the invaders".

"I call on the people to start resisting the invaders instead of killing each other," Saddam told the court on Wednesday.

But he urged Iraqis to avoid civil war, otherwise "you will live in darkness and bloods of river".[...]

"What pains me most is what I heard recently about something that aims to harm our people," Saddam said. "My conscience tells me that the great people of Iraq have nothing to do with these acts," he said referring to the bombing of the shrine in the city of Samarra.[...]

As Saddam continued reading from a prepared text, the judge repeatedly closed his microphone to prevent his words from being heard and told him to address the charges against him. Saddam ignored the judge and continued speaking.


He went on with his speech, urging Iraqis not fight each other. He praised the insurgency, saying, "In my eyes, you are the resistance to the American invasion".

"You are being tried in a criminal case for killing innocent people, not because of your conflict with America," Abdel-Rahman told him.

"What about the innocent people who are dying in Baghdad? I am talking to the Iraqi people," Saddam replied.



From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 16 March 2006 11:09 AM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The above information is already found in active threads.

air raid carnage

Iraq after 2-22

[ 16 March 2006: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
eau
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posted 16 March 2006 02:57 PM      Profile for eau        Edit/Delete Post
Today the US has launched a huge air assault on Samarra, I doubt there will be any remains left to identify as children when they have finished. Yesterday there were reports of 130 Helicopter gunships being sent to Iraq.

Bush poll numbers are lower than ever, this maybe something he thought might help improve them.


From: BC | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 16 March 2006 03:16 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I hope you are wrong. What does it say of a culture when killing is away to improve one's popularity?
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 16 March 2006 05:39 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Which culture are you referring to? Arab culture?
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
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posted 16 March 2006 05:42 PM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post
The Pentagon announced some weeks ago plans to increase dependence on air power in Iraq to offset a possible draw down in the numbers of troops on the ground. The inevitable result will be a sharp increase in the indiscriminate killing and maiming of innocent civilians of course. More than any other military probably, the American war machine commits war crimes out of convenience and a fear of losing soldiers and thereby, political support at home. Criminal.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 16 March 2006 05:47 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm in response to Frustrated Mess:
Which culture are you referring to? Arab culture?

Audra(at)rabble(dot)ca or Michelle(at)rabble(dot)ca.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 16 March 2006 05:56 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Um, I interpreted FM's comment as relating to the US, where killing Iraquis might lift poll numbers for Bush. American culture, not Arab culture. Am I the only one?
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 16 March 2006 05:58 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by swirrlygrrl:
Um, I interpreted FM's comment as relating to the US, where killing Iraquis might lift poll numbers for Bush. American culture, not Arab culture. Am I the only one?

You've been here a lot longer than I have. You still take Stockholm's throwaway comments seriously?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 16 March 2006 06:07 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I take this seriously:

quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Audra(at)rabble(dot)ca or Michelle(at)rabble(dot)ca.

From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 16 March 2006 06:11 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why should it matter which of the two cultures?

Do we notify the mods if he meant "Arab", but not if he meant "American"? If anyone has their letter of protest half written, finish it regardless.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 March 2006 06:18 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
What IS "Arab culture" anyway? I don't think there *is* any such thing. Egyptian, Jordanian, Palestinian, Sudanese, Yemeni, Saudi -- they all have a separate culture, with (I'm sure) some similarities... but a pan-Arab culture? I don't think it exists.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 16 March 2006 06:33 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, dear, a tempest! Where is the tea pot?

Let's put it in context, shall we:

First we had this:

quote:

Today the US has launched a huge air assault on Samarra, I doubt there will be any remains left to identify as children when they have finished. Yesterday there were reports of 130 Helicopter gunships being sent to Iraq.

Bush poll numbers are lower than ever, this maybe something he thought might help improve them.


To which I responded:

quote:

I hope you are wrong. What does it say of a culture when killing is away to improve one's popularity?

The emphasis has been added.

I don't think there is any ambivalence as to what culture is being discussed. And I do hope the poster who suggested the US might be on an offensive to boost Bush's sagging polls is wrong. But what if he's not? What if that is the reason an offensive has been launched (one in which it was reported there has been no resistance met to the largest bombing campaign since the start of the war)? What if it worked? What could, then, be said about that culture? Why is that question offensive? Seems that answer is what might be offensive.

[ 16 March 2006: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 16 March 2006 06:55 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Oh, dear, a tempest! Where is the tea pot?

Maybe I should have justified my move, as it appears to be unclear.

I reported what I saw as Stockholm generalising about Arab culture, not Frustrated Mess's question. What happens after I make state my case is up to the mods, and generally I accept the decisions they make.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 16 March 2006 07:01 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, I see. You think Stockholm was asking the question in a sarcastic manner while throwing aspersions on Arab culture. Would he be so despicable as that?
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 16 March 2006 07:03 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know, but he has been here long enough to know what is and isn't acceptable here.
From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 16 March 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it's unclear exactly what Stockholm meant. You could try asking him, if it's really important to you.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 16 March 2006 07:24 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You are right.

Stockholm, we seem to have some confusion here. Were you being sarcastic in your comment to me and suggesting that Arab culture is one where killing could be used to improve one's popularity?


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 16 March 2006 07:28 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who cares what Stockholm "meant"? I suggest everyone go back, edit out their posts, and forget all this ever happened. It's irrelevant.

Here's something more relevant IMHO:

Kurdish demonstration turns deadly

quote:
A ceremony in northern Iraq turned deadly Thursday after hundreds of angry Kurdish demonstrators destroyed a memorial in the town of Halabja.

One person was killed and several injured when mobs set fire to the memorial, which marks a 1988 poison-gas attack that killed 5,000 Kurds in the village.[...]

Villagers say the memorial, which has the names of the victims inscribed inside, means very little to them. They would rather have financial assistance to help survivors rebuild their lives and the town, which hasn't been reconstructed since the attack.

They say they are angry at being remembered only once a year.

"They say nobody's helping them rebuild. They watch the economic boom in other parts of Iraqi Kurdistan and they don't understand why they don't see any of those benefits," said Evans.


This so-called government of Iraq is going down. I can hardly wait.

[ 16 March 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 March 2006 09:10 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Oh, I see. You think Stockholm was asking the question in a sarcastic manner while throwing aspersions on Arab culture. Would he be so despicable as that?

Why yes, he would.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 17 March 2006 02:13 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What IS "Arab culture" anyway?

What is American culture anyways? Do you mean the American counter culture in San Francisco? Do you mean, fundamentalist Protestants in Mississippi? Do you mean Afro-American culture? Do you mean the peace movement?


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 17 March 2006 05:01 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, forget I said that. I don't know what I was thinking.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 March 2006 08:06 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Oh, I see. You think Stockholm was asking the question in a sarcastic manner while throwing aspersions on Arab culture. Would he be so despicable as that?

Yeah, I think that might be exactly his motive. Stockholm, seriously, you've been a member of babble for a long time, but if you pull one more generalization like this you're going to be sitting out for a week. I've really had enough.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 17 March 2006 11:19 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So does this mean that anyone who "generalizes" about American culture gets welcomed with open arms, but if anyone dares to "generalize" on Arab culture they get disciplined?

Where is the logic behind that?

If we want to have a rule against any generalizations of any nations, cultures, religions, peoples it should be 100% consistent.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 17 March 2006 11:25 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle,

I'll be sending this in a PM as well, but the title of this thread is a far more important one than debating with Stockholm what his feelings are about "Arab culture". Could I suggest you close this thread or else give some firmer guidance (I know you've tried... but firmer!)?

Thanks.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 17 March 2006 11:27 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, dear, this continues. I wasn't generalizing about American culture but it seems you do acknowledge you were generalizing about Arab culture.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 17 March 2006 11:31 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
at the same time, we could dispense with the nonsense that one "culture" (of unelected, warmongering corporate criminals masquerading as 'America') is going to bring some vaguely understood notion of liberal democracy to another "culture" (generally a mish-mash of 'orientalist' preconceptions and a multitude of real opinions some advanced, some retrograde).

maybe we could reflect once again about the significance of the first post, of innocents, including innocent children, being shot in the head.

Frustrated-Mess's question is very appropriate in this context, if someone launches a new round of slaughter, believing this will improve their poll numbers, and they're proven right, what does that say about a culture?

And asking this question doesn't automatically mean that you endorse whatever is understood of the "other's" culture.

It's a very specific question.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 19 March 2006 02:40 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
By the way, that "air assault operation" was not a bombing mission. Comments by Chris Bray, a US historian and soldier stationed in Kuwait, I believe, who is not a knee-jerking jingoist:
quote:
Operation [Stormer] Swarmer, the big military campaign in Iraq this week that did nothing and meant nothing, was clearly a media stunt, and a very cheap one at that. But it's painful to watch the news media try to figure out why the joke was a joke...

From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 March 2006 12:35 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Investigation launched into charges U.S. Marines murdered 15 Iraqi civilians

quote:
WASHINGTON, March 19, 2006 — A bloody videotape shot by a local Iraqi journalism student has prompted the Pentagon to launch a criminal investigation into an incident that left at least 15 Iraqi civilians dead in the city of Haditha.

The details of what happened four months ago in Haditha are just now coming to light with the release of the videotape by an Iraqi organization called Hammurabi Human Rights.

The tape shows the bloodied and bullet-marked homes that had been allegedly stormed by the Marines, and includes comments by local residents.

"This is my father," a boy says on the tape. "He didn't do anything wrong. Why did they kill him?"

The video shows the bodies of some of the dead, including one of three children killed.

"We launched an investigation of our own with the help of a human rights group," said Aparisim Ghosh, a writer for Time. "We spoke to some eyewitnesses. And it turns out all the people killed were killed by the Marines in small arms fire and, in a few instances, by an explosive that was tossed into the home by the Marines themselves."


There's a link to the video at the above site, but it's not working. Does anyone know where to find the video on the internet?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 March 2006 02:10 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Investigation launched into charges U.S. Marines murdered 15 Iraqi civilians

There's a link to the video at the above site, but it's not working. Does anyone know where to find the video on the internet?


I thought the Information Clearing House might have the film, so I checked, but found only this:

Killing Women and Children: The “My Lai Phase” Of The Iraq War

It has pictures: click

I looked.

If a plague should strike the USA and kill a million kids there, I suppose we could say that biblical justice had been served.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 20 March 2006 03:25 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So now, you're openly hoping for a "plague" to kill a million American children. Boy you are one sick puppy.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 20 March 2006 03:27 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

If a plague should strike the USA and kill a million kids there, I suppose we could say that biblical justice had been served.


If I were of an apocalyptic bent, I would have taken notice of how so soon after the US destroyed Baghdad, one of its own major citites was promptly destroyed by a hurricane.

[ 20 March 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 20 March 2006 03:31 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Swept away in a flood actually. Very biblical.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 20 March 2006 08:57 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
The above information is already found in active threads.

air raid carnage

Iraq after 2-22

[ 16 March 2006: Message edited by: writer ]


Yep.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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