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Author Topic: Pakistan
darb
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posted 14 January 2006 12:33 AM      Profile for darb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ok so it isn't quite the middle east geographically, but politically.

anyways, what gives the USA the right to strike into Pakistan?

Brad


Air attack on Pakistani village aimed at top al-Qaeda leader

Last Updated Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:25:51

The U.S. launched an airstrike against a village in eastern Pakistan on Saturday morning, reportedly aimed at killing the number two man in al-Qaeda.

Ayman al-Zawahiri was the suspected target when the planes struck a remote Pakistani tribal area on Friday, killing at least 17 people.

American television networks reported that it was a CIA strike, but it isn't known if al-Zawahiri was killed.

Al-Zawahiri is regarded as Osama Bin Laden's second-in-command. An Egyptian doctor, he is considered to be the intellectual and ideological driving force behind al-Qaeda.

In spite of a $25 million US bounty on his head al-Zawahiri has managed to elude capture since the U.S. toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001.

The village that was struck was Damadola in the Bajaur tribal area, about 200 kilometres northwest of Islamabad.

Written by CBC News Online staff


From: Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:22 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I spit on the CIA. Kill innocents based on their best intelligence?

Isn't Pakistan a Sovereign Country?


From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:24 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Toedancer:
I spit on the CIA. Kill innocents based on their best intelligence?

Isn't Pakistan a Sovereign Country?



The deadly airstrike which claimed the lives of more than 18 Pakistani civilians came just days after Pakistan protested to U.S. military operations in AFGHANISTAN after eight Pakistanis were killed last week in cross-border firing in nearby Miran Shah, Waziristan.

Pakistani intelligence sources said that the eighteen people killed in Friday strike included eight men, five women and five children, adding that three homes were targeted.

"We are conducting tests to identify the bodies," a Pakistani intelligence official told CNN.

14 of those killed in the strike belonged to one family, witnesses said, and Haji Haroon Rashid, the Bajaur lawmaker, said he witnessed the attack and asserted that a spy plane had been hovering over the area for days. http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10458

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: Toedancer ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:25 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: Toedancer ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:26 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:28 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
QB][/QUOTE]
From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:30 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I so give up, it's impossible to erase here.
From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toedancer
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posted 15 January 2006 12:32 AM      Profile for Toedancer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 January 2006 08:16 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This sort of thing has been going on since the invasion in 2001, but it is indicative of ... something ... that Pakistan would be filing a formal protest. They were supposed to be Bush's allies - remember?

This is also the sort of operation that the beefed-up Canadian contingent is going to be supporting this year. I wonder whether those innocent civilians killed in these attacks would be the "scumbags" General Hillier thinks he's after.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 15 January 2006 12:10 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I heard that the CF no longer considers itself a "peacekeeping" force (as they told us when I trained in the Reserves in the 80s), but now trains its members strictly for combat instead.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 15 January 2006 03:01 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What's next, air strikes on Scarborough to take out Abdullah Khadr?
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2006 03:27 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I heard that the CF no longer considers itself a "peacekeeping" force (as they told us when I trained in the Reserves in the 80s), but now trains its members strictly for combat instead.

I think that is a very sad but true statement of our current "reality."

Unfortunately Canada will lose more credibility as a neutral or peacekeeping nation if/when Stephen Harper is elected. Remember he wanted us to go to Iraq, and his law and order platform is very close to Republican USA. very scary!


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Evil Twin
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posted 15 January 2006 03:57 PM      Profile for The Evil Twin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The latest US strikes, like much of what the Cheney administration has done, is incredibly counter-productive. It only has the effect of turning Pakistanis -and especially the military - against the Musharaff regime.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 15 January 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Number two in Al Quaeda, huh?
So, how many "number two men" does Al Quaeda have? Didn't that get old a while ago?

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 15 January 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
Number two in Al Quaeda, huh?
So, how many "number two men" does Al Quaeda have? Didn't that get old a while ago?

No question but that there seem to be a lot of "number three men" in Al Qaeda, too.

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Maritimesea
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posted 15 January 2006 11:26 PM      Profile for Maritimesea     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Mcain defends Pakistan Airstrike

January 16, 2006 - 9:12AM

A leading Republican lawmaker has defended a purported US air strike on a Pakistani village that Islamabad says killed innocent civilians.

Senator John McCain said Americans regretted the loss of life in an attack that was apparently meant to kill Ayman al-Zawahri, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden's top lieutenant.

But "this war on terror has no boundaries", said McCain, who challenged US President George W Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000. "We have to go where these people are, and we have to take them out."


I guess the only innocent blood worth anything is American red. Will no one ever stand up to these heartless bastards? How many "others" will be sacrificed keep one American safe.


From: Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 January 2006 01:47 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But "this war on terror has no boundaries", said McCain...

So 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is a legitimate target?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
nister
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posted 16 January 2006 12:04 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
American attitudes toward collateral deaths are essentially the same as Israeli attitudes to Palestinian deaths. Akin to a motorist running over a squirrel in the road; they may feel bad for a bit, but they aren't about to stop driving.
From: Barrie, On | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 16 January 2006 02:52 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post
The US has adopted the SHaron-doctrine wholesale--there's no difference between their current policy and the IDF's use of missiles to assasinate HAMAS leaders, despite a certain (and in fact deliberate) level of civilian casualties.

They want to send the message that being near the US's enemies can get you killed, or get your children killed, even if you've committed no crime at all.

Terrorism, in other words.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 16 January 2006 04:24 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But "this war on terror has no boundaries", said McCain,

Yeah, that silly little boundary between civilians and combattants was never any fun, anyway. Probably a commie plot, too...


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 January 2006 07:06 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by S1m0n:
The US has adopted the SHaron-doctrine wholesale--there's no difference between their current policy and the IDF's use of missiles to assasinate HAMAS leaders, despite a certain (and in fact deliberate) level of civilian casualties.

They want to send the message that being near the US's enemies can get you killed, or get your children killed, even if you've committed no crime at all.

Terrorism, in other words.


Yeah, can we have one thread in the ME forum where we don't drag Israel into it unnecessarily? I think it would be really great to talk about Pakistan without it devolving into the usual pissing matches about Israel. Thanks.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
eau
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posted 16 January 2006 08:36 PM      Profile for eau        Edit/Delete Post
Environmentalists are the new terrorists in the Bush lexicon. I always notice when the MSM invariably calls anyone concerned about the planet radical environmentalists whenever they protests any of the Bush disastrous policies.

Any dissent seems to get the same treatment I suppose.

The big droughts in the southern US are problematic. I await to hear what Canadians are called when we say we don't want to privatise our water. Terrorists anyone?


From: BC | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Maritimesea
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posted 16 January 2006 09:29 PM      Profile for Maritimesea     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
U.S. Bombs Pakistan: The soul of a nation is fatally wounded. By Abid Ullah Jan

Long live Pakistan under the U.S. bombing raids

Aircraft from Afghanistan have once more attacked Pakistan killing 18 Pakistanis in remote villages. Even non-US sources, such as Al-Jazeera has adopted the tone of embedded journalists, telling the world that the US attack on Pakistan killed 18 people in “a village stronghold of pro-Taliban Islamists.”

The incident in Bajaur tribal region on December 13 came days after Pakistan lodged a useless protest with US-led forces in Afghanistan, saying cross-border firing in the nearby Waziristan area last weekend killed eight people.

A Pakistani intelligence official said two aircraft had come in from Afghanistan and fired two or three missiles. Where is the US military spokesman, Lieutenant-Colonel Jerry O'Hara, followed the foot-steps of his liar commander-in-chief and said there were no reports of US forces operating in the Damadola area.

This incident is yet another evidence that Musharraf has made Pakistan a big loser after September 11 with the misconception that it had no option except bending backwards to the US demands. His mantra: Pakistan had no option. It either had to join the US aggression or invite Bush’s wrath. Had Musharraf hesitated, the Americans would have clobbered Pakistan’s military and ‘strategic’ assets and allowed India to attack. By siding with Bush, Pakistan has been saved from American anger and its own “extremists.” It has also been able to break out of its isolation and rejoin the international mainstream.



From: Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 16 January 2006 11:29 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Yeah, can we have one thread in the ME forum where we don't drag Israel into it unnecessarily? I think it would be really great to talk about Pakistan without it devolving into the usual pissing matches about Israel. Thanks.


Michelle, you CAN'T talk about many of the Bush administration's strategies in the war on terror without talking about where these were pioneered.

The republican hawks and the Israeli hawks are like two peas in a pod. I don't like it either, but cloing our eyes to the connection simply prevents this action from being understood.

The parallels between this operation and IDF operations against Hamas in the occupied territories are so striking as to be irrefutable.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 17 January 2006 12:07 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by nister:
American attitudes toward collateral deaths are essentially the same as Israeli attitudes to Palestinian deaths. Akin to a motorist running over a squirrel in the road; they may feel bad for a bit, but they aren't about to stop driving.

That's a purty good analogy, but in these cases the motorists swerve to hit the squirrels.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 17 January 2006 12:52 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
US airstrike on agenda: Stormy National Assembly session begins today:
quote:
The session, beginning at 5pm, was requisitioned jointly by all opposition parties to discuss a government crackdown in Balochistan, the controversy over the Kalabagh dam project and high prices of petroleum products partly blamed on the government’s pricing formula.

But the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) introduced another issue by sending a notice to the NA secretariat seeking a debate on Friday’s air-strike in Bajaur Agency in which at least 18 people were killed.

The role of the MQM, a partner in the ruling coalition, will be keenly watched during the NA session after the party . . . joined its rival MMA to hold a demonstration in Karachi on Sunday to protest against the US air-strike in Bajaur agency’s Damadola village.

The government’s rare protest lodged with the US ambassador on Saturday is unlikely to spare it the severity of opposition’s criticism in view of the widespread resentment against the air-strike, which US officials say was targeted against Al Qaeda’s number two Ayman al Zawahiri though his presence in the area at the time remains unproved.

“This latest incident of bombing by foreign forces in Pakistan’s territory has caused grave concern amongst the general public and requires an immediate debate on the issue (by) adjourning the normal proceedings of the house,” the MMA’s motion said.



The MMA forms the government of the North-West Frontier Province. The Bajaur Agency is one of the autonomous Tribal Areas lying between the NWFP and Afghanistan, which were on the wrong side of the the Durand Line.

Four aircraft violated the country’s airspace and entered the tribal area from Afghanistan’s troubled Kunar province at about 3am:

quote:

The intruding aircraft fired at least nine missiles at houses in Damadola, about 10 kilometres northeast of Khar, the agency’s headquarters, an official said.

Eyewitnesses said that a majority of the slain victims were women and children. Up to 14 of these victims belonged to one family, they said.

The shelling wrought damage on houses and killed about two dozen head of cattle.

Some of the victims were identified as Hussain Nawaz, a five-year-old child, 9-year-old Mehda Bibi, 10-year-old Sadiqa Bibi, 9-year-old Taib, seven-year-old Zahidullah, Amir Mohammad, Bibi Noor Pari, Shah Baden Bibi, Zahira Bibi, Qari Seedullah and Bekhtpur Khan.

Sources said that four planes came about 50 kilometres inside Pakistani air-space and targeted mud houses in Berkandi area of Damadola, largely inhabited by the Mamond tribe.

Sources said that the Mamond sub-division is considered a stronghold of the banned Tehrik Nifaz-i-Shariat-i-Mohammadi led by Maulana Sufi Mohammad. Maulana Sufi has been in Dera Ismail Khan jail since the fall of the Taliban government.

Bajaur Agency MNA, Haji Haroon Rashid, contradicted the official version that explosions inside residential compounds had caused casualties and damage.

“This is absolutely wrong. Planes came in the area and fired missiles”, Mr Haroon told Dawn.



PML-N condemns Bajaur attacks, seeks US apology:
quote:
ISLAMABAD, Jan 14: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) has condemned attacks on Bajaur and Waziristan and demanded that the United States should apologize and compensate losses. . .

He said last week also an attack on a Waziristan village by American forces killed eight innocent Pakistani citizens. He said these attacks were in blatant violation of international law, and amounted to attack on Pakistan’s sovereignty. He said the United States should not only offer unconditional apology for these dastardly actions, but also punish the personnel responsible and pay compensation for the loss of life and property.

The PML-N leader said the American forces in Afghanistan were encouraged to violate international border due to ‘apologetic’ and ‘weak’ policy of the present government. Mere formal protest by the Foreign Office only showed that weakness.


[ 17 January 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 17 January 2006 04:14 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Another thing is that they used a Predator drone, which look and act like the Hunter-Killer units from Terminator.

Skynet was also fighting the human terrorists who were the greatest threat to freedom-loving machines everywhere.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 18 January 2006 12:08 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pakistan says alleged US air strike killed five foreign militants:
quote:
Pakistan said Tuesday that last week's alleged US missile attack in its border area was aimed at foreign militants invited to a dinner and up to five of them were killed. It was the first confirmation by Pakistan that the attack in Bajur tribal region bordering Afghanistan targeted "foreign" militants. "The missile attack on a village in Damadola area of Bajur agency on the night between 12th and 13th January was directed against foreign terrorists," said an official statement quoting Fahim Wazir, Bajur's head of administration. "According to our information at least four to five foreign elements had also been killed in this incident but their bodies were removed from the scene within no time by their companions," the statement said. It said a joint investigation team comprising various government agencies revealed that up to 12 foreign "miscreants" were also invited to the dinner which caused the attack. The statement regretted the killing of "18 innocent local people" in the strike. It said that two local militants, Maulana Faqir Mohammad and Maulana Liaqat, removed the bodies of the foreigners killed in the attack to "suppress the actual reason of the attack."

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 January 2006 12:54 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So all is well then, Wilf?
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 18 January 2006 02:08 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
So all is well then, Wilf?

Clearly not:
quote:
Pakistan cannot accept actions like an air strike on a village that killed 18 people, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said Tuesday, adding that he will bring it up when he visits Washington this week. "Pakistan is committed to fighting terrorism but naturally we cannot accept any action within our country which results in what happened over the weekend," Aziz told a joint news conference with former US President George Bush. "So the relationship with the US is important, it is growing but at the same time such actions cannot be condoned," he said. "This is one unfortunate event where many innocent lives have been lost and that is why we in the government and cabinet today have expressed deep regret and condemned the incident," Aziz added. "But our relationship with the US is of long standing and my trip to the United States is there on schedule because we want to engage on many issues including how we fight terrorism.

PPP/ARD join in:
quote:
the first day of the opposition-requisitioned session was dominated by angry speeches from opposition parties and even from some members of the ruling coalition, an adjournment motion submitted by the MMA seeking a formal debate on the issue is yet to be taken up.

The session’s agenda also includes a debate on high petroleum prices. However, it is yet to be seen if a planned debate on the controversial Kalabagh dam would be held after the cabinet’s Tuesday decision — also endorsed by President Pervez Musharraf — to start construction of the Bhasha dam.

The day was marked by strongly-worded denunciation of the Bajaur incident by MMA, ARD and some FATA legislators and . . also by some of their own colleagues like Forward Bloc leader Riaz Hussain Pirzada and MQM member Kunwar Khalid Younis.

ARD chairman Makhdoom Amin Fahim, who is also the president of the People’s Party Parliamentarians (PPP), called the Bajaur attack “a challenge to every citizen of Pakistan” and said the prime minister should cancel his US visit. MMA chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed also called for cancellation of the prime minister’s visit and said President Musharraf was “playing with fire” by supporting American policies in the region.


More trouble for Pakistan's military ruler, Gen Pervez Musharraf, who is already perceived by many to be surviving mainly on American life-support.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
nister
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posted 18 January 2006 11:19 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ABC's evening news says four important terrorists were killed; they named only two, and offered no evidence beyond what Pakistan reported. I see no reason to believe or disbelieve the account.
From: Barrie, On | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 January 2006 11:27 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When Teenagers show no remorse for mistakes, we call in the therapist. When killers show no remorse, we want life sentences or death row. When the United States makes deadly mistakes, remorse is unnecessary, because, of course, it is never our fault.

Thinking we could nail Osama bin Laden's top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahri, our military launched an airstrike into a Pakistani town just over the border from Afghanistan. We smoked 18 people at a dinner that al-Zawahri was allegedly going to attend, but apparently skipped out on. The provincial government claims that four or five foreign militants were killed, but local witnesses said women and children were among the rest.

This is of small concern to the White House. President Bush has never apologized to the Iraqi people for the three years of carnage done in the name of weapons of mass destruction, weapons that were never found. Bush always dodges the need to show remorse on the premise that ''we are up against people who show no shame, no remorse, no hint of humanity."
...

But no one should dare attempt to bring America to justice. Senator John McCain of Arizona played the game on CBS's ''Face the Nation" of issuing an apology and then immediately qualifying it. At one juncture, he said, ''It's terrible when innocent people are killed. We regret that. But we have to do what is necessary to take out Al Qaeda, particularly the top operatives."

At another juncture, McCain said, ''We apologize, but I can't tell you that we wouldn't do the same thing again.


Madeline Albright would be proud


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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