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Author Topic: Gaza PA security chief dragged from home and shot to death
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 07 September 2005 04:56 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Abbas to Hunt Security Chief's Killers

quote:
About 100 masked militants stormed Moussa Arafat's heavily guarded home in an upscale Gaza City neighborhood early Wednesday, sparking a 30-minute gunbattle with dozens of his bodyguards. The assailants burst into the home, dragged out Arafat in his pajamas and gunned him down in the dusty street.


Its funny how things like this slip into the MSM:

quote:
With his security forces severely weakened after years of fighting with Israel, Abbas faces a formidable task. Armed gangs roam freely in many parts of Gaza, and rival militant groups are engaged in a bitter power struggle with Abbas' ruling Fatah movement ahead of the Israeli pullout.

I don't seem to remember any co-ordinated effort by the PA to fight Israeli troops. I remember some fire fights, and a some death squad activity by the IDF, but no co-ordinated campaign, certainly none ordered and directed by the PA. It seemed more to me that the IDF came into the west bank and actively destoryed the security aparatus, attacking their police stations, outposts and enve the jails in 2000.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
scooter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5548

posted 07 September 2005 06:12 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is just the usual 'same old, same old' things that happen in the Gaza. I have lost count the number of assasination attempts on Arafat by his 'own' people.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 07 September 2005 09:09 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And that is more or less the same old same old middle class North American 'leftie' kind of comment. Pious and pointless really.

The point you see, and what makes this different, is that the assassination was succesfull, whereas no one would have considered such an brazen rising against Arafat, no doubt because spies among the rebels would have reported what was in the works, and some people would have disappeard.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 07 September 2005 09:11 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball, come on, that was a personal attack and unnecessary. Warning number one, dude.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 September 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'll take that warning sure. I am really tired of the same old same old arguements like; the "Palestinians and Israelis deserve each other;" and the above "assasination attempts on Arafat by his 'own' people" smacks of self righteous piety based in a vaguely eurocentric idea about uncivilized Arabs tribes engaged in endless tribal blood feuds. That is the way it looked to me.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 07 September 2005 09:27 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, I hate that argument too, honestly. Whenever I've heard it, it's always made me wonder why people who believe that even bother discussing the issue if they don't really give a damn about it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 07 September 2005 11:02 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
I don't seem to remember any co-ordinated effort by the PA to fight Israeli troops.

How do you define co-ordinated? The PA has a long history of supporting directly or indirectly groups that used violence. Who do you think co-ordinated the last couple of intifadas? Every suicide bomber's family received money from the PA.

From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 September 2005 11:15 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who paid the 12 year-old suicide stone-throwers in the first Intifada?
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 08 September 2005 01:29 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by scooter:

How do you define co-ordinated? The PA has a long history of supporting directly or indirectly groups that used violence. Who do you think co-ordinated the last couple of intifadas? Every suicide bomber's family received money from the PA.

No doubt your business elsewhere is responsible for the simplicity of this post.

1) Just a few points, the PA didn't exist in 1987.

2) Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas claim 90% of all suicide attacks.

3) Neither Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Hamas are part of the PA adminstrative aparatus or the PLO. Both organizations reject the idea of membership in the PLO. Some members of the PA security aparatus are no doubt also PIJ and Hamas activists.

4) Suicide bombing was not a feature of the first Intifada, but appeared later. The first incident was a repsonse to the massacre of 29 Muslim's praying at Mosque, by Dr. Baruch Goldstein in 1994.

5) Both Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Saudi Arabia are the ones that pay, or have in the past paid what they considered to be war compensation to the families of PIJ and Hamas bombers.

6) Not very many people actually beleive that the PLO had a lot to do with starting the first Intifada, although they were seen a supporting from the outside, and have tried to claim more influence on it than is warranted. Arafat was in Tunis, for instance.

7) Israel has alledged that Arafat paid Tanzhim guerillas who were part of the Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade. This is no doubt true, after all the Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade's memebership is entirely made of radical elments within Feteh, and so many are actually employees of the PA. I have never seen it suggested that employment with the government precludes other political activities.

Anyway, Israel found a reciept for cheque paid to a guy who later turned out to have been active in a suicide operation. He was however an employee of the PA at the time, and was fired.

8) The only confirmed incident of militant actions where someone in a position to know said that Arafat directly had prior knowledge of an an attack was the 1970 Munich games. One of the participants in the attack has stated that he met Arafat and they discussed it.

[ 08 September 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 08 September 2005 10:47 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
1) Just a few points, the PA didn't exist in 1987.

Sloppy post on my part. You are correct, I am far to casual in mixing references to the PA and Arafat's regime which formed the PA.

The groups that use and support violence in Palistine parallels the those in Northern Ireland. If they can not attack the 'enemy' then they turn in and attack themselves.

I don't believe that a strong PA would have been able to stop any of the internal violence direct at their own people.


From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Thrasymachus
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posted 08 September 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for Thrasymachus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The groups that use and support violence in Palistine parallels the those in Northern Ireland. If they can not attack the 'enemy' then they turn in and attack themselves.

What in the world are you basing that on? Has the Nationalist community started in fighting? They look extremely united to me these days. Are the Unionists up to something I don't know about? I know the Unionist paramilitaries have stepped up sectarian attacks against Catholics but I haven't seen much in terms of in fighting in either camps.


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venus_man
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posted 08 September 2005 12:10 PM      Profile for venus_man        Edit/Delete Post
I’ve been saying that in the previous thread as well-the militants are the REAL problem here. They are the once provoking and executing the violence, while spreading fear and hatred. There cannot be two or more equally valuable and powerful authorities in one country. If there are-they would contradict each other. Reminds we the times of Louis the 14th, the king of France. Off course, those were the prosperous times and the king was the authority who was protected by the elite force-the musketeers. But then there was Cardinal Richelieu with his own militants and secret services who would constantly interfere into governmental affairs, conduct assassinations and other intrigues, while provoking the violence and religion based conflict with England-all, apparently, for the “good of France”.
Same happened to the Nazis back in a day.

The president, in this case Abbas, needs to have a full control of the situation by governing the military, various investigation agencies and police. All other groups need to be dismantled and proclaimed as dangerous to the society and the peace process. But looks like he scared of the militants who would from time to time show off their presence and force by firing in the buildings and now assassinating their own people. Palestine has a risk now of becoming something like a post-Saddam Iraq, where militants and extremists would kill their own people in order to retain full control. I hope not, but you just wait and see.


From: outer space | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 September 2005 01:39 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Inadvertanly here, couched in a lot of eruopean ethnocentric piety and hypocrisy, Venus_man has underscored the dynamic that make the case of the Gaza Strip fundamentally different than the case of the IRA. At no time has it ever been suggested that the IRA would be made responsible for forcibly policing the more radical segments of Northern Ireland's Catholics.

Unfortunately for the late Arafat it seems likely that this killing, taking place mere minutes away from main security offices of the PA in Gaza Strip, was likely done either with the tacit approval of the security services, or by them.

In fact Venus_man, this is precisely the kind of thing that results as Abbas attempts to assert "full control of the situation by governing the military, various investigation agencies and police." People get killed, duh.

Your call in an obivous call for violent repression of non-PLO factions. Why aren't you sending your message of Christian perseverance, and MLK non-violence to Abbas and company?

It seems that your "non-violence" cure all ills wand, is only applicable to the people you don't like. Others, the IDF and the PA can kill at will.

[ 09 September 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 09 September 2005 01:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 09 September 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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