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Author Topic: More Israeli death squad activity uncovered
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 03 June 2005 02:18 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We killed police for revenge, Israeli soldiers confess

quote:
Two Israeli soldiers have come forward to describe how they took part in what they say was an officially ordered "revenge" operation to kill Palestinian police officers ­ among them several unarmed men.

In graphic testimony, one soldier has confessed that he "really enjoyed" a chase in which he shot an unarmed Palestinian in the head who was trying to escape during a series of reprisal raids ordered the day after the killing of six Israeli soldiers in an ambush by militant gunmen three years ago.

[SNIP]

"The idea was simply to kill them all. Whenever they arrived, we would kill them, regardless whether [they were]armed or not. If they were Palestinian policemen, they were to be shot. The order was given and our six opened fire."

[SNIP]

The accounts were originally given to the "Breaking the Silence" group of young former soldiers which is critical of methods used by the army in the occupied territories.

One of the group's spokesmen, Avichai Sharon, a former member of the crack Golani Brigade, claimed the operations on 20 February 2002 were ordered "from high"­ including the Ministry of Defence­ and added: "In my eyes, this is a very harsh example of crossing the moral and human boundaries."

He said it indicated that "we are not a defence force any more but a tribe which avenges in blood. As an Israeli, I fear this."


[ 03 June 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 03 June 2005 09:05 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But this is okay because Israel is a democracy.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 03 June 2005 02:15 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bump
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
clear mutiny
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9494

posted 03 June 2005 02:56 PM      Profile for clear mutiny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"We have studied the files of those who were executed, and found that only two of the 118 who were executed were innocent,"

quote:
PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat defended the killing of Arabs deemed to be "collaborating with Israel." He delegated the authority to carry out executions to the intifada leadership. After the murders, the local PLO death squad sent the file on the case to the PLO. "We have studied the files of those who were executed, and found that only two of the 118 who were executed were innocent," Arafat said. The innocent victims were declared "martyrs of the Palestinian revolution" by the PLO (Al­Mussawar, January 19, 1990).

Palestinians were stabbed, hacked with axes, shot, clubbed and burned with acid. The justifications offered for the killings varied. In some instances, being employed by Israel's Civil Administration in the West Bank and Gaza was reason enough; in others, contact with Jews warranted a death sentence. Accusations of "collaboration" with Israel were sometimes used as a pretext for acts of personal vengeance. Women deemed to have behaved "immorally" were also among the victims.

Eventually, the reign of terror became so serious that some Palestinians expressed public concern about the disorder. The PLO began to call for an end to the violence, but murders by its members and rivals continued. From 1989-1992, this intrafada claimed the lives of nearly 1,000 Palestinians.


Death Squads are to be condemned, no matter whose they are.


From: no localized | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 03 June 2005 09:02 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fine. The problem is that the activity you are describing is the main way that Palestinians are characterized. Meanwhile the IDF is generally characterized as a professional military organization, whose "occassional errors" are hidden beneath the ruberic of collateral damage on obfuscation.

You would also do well to reference a site that does not have an overtly pro-Israeli bias. I too, like, and often use the JVL, but there is plenty of other material out there which can establish that there are Palestinian crimes, which are not drawn from sources which have that bias. I chose Ha'aretz, you will see.

I have carefully gone over a number of their editorialized historical pieces, and they lose credibility by constantly editorializing between the known facts. For instance:

quote:
Eventually, the reign of terror became so serious that some Palestinians expressed public concern about the disorder.

The use of the term "reign of terror" unsourced to any Palestinian oversteps the boundaries of scholarlship, or journalism and moves the piece dangerously toward the realm of Op/ed.

[ 03 June 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 04 June 2005 01:05 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"The idea was simply to kill them all. Whenever they arrived, we would kill them, regardless whether [they were]armed or not. If they were Palestinian policemen, they were to be shot. The order was given and our six opened fire."

In related news:

quote:
This month, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon reiterated Israel's intention to build 3,500 additional units of housing for Jewish settlers in the Palestinian West Bank while demanding at the same time that the Palestinian leadership do more to dismantle what the Israeli leader refers to as the "terror infrastructure."

Power, Propaganda and the Promised Land


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 04 June 2005 05:34 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So Sharon is promising finally to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza. What better way to dismantle the terror infrastructure than to remove its source?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9425

posted 04 June 2005 10:01 AM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't even see the remote possiblity that Israel will completely withdraw (bearing in mind the larger settlements which will become part of Israel proper)from the West Bank under Sharon.

Even if this was theoretically possible, it would not dismantle the networks that have attacked Israelis and Israeli targets.

Remember that Hamas and Jihad, and to a lesser extent, Hezbollah, are still dedicated to the destruction of the Israeli state.

As these groups become a political force to be recogned with in the West Bank and Gaza (like Hezbollah in southern Lebanon), they may eventually renonce their covenants calling for Israel's destruction.

As for Abbas, to my mind he is less than secure. He will never completely control the Palestinian security forces. To crack down hard on these groups would mean death for him.

I suspect once H. & J. are running the Palestinian Authority, they will have a change of heart, but not before.

It is quite another question as to whether Sharon would LET THEM run the P.A., even if they eventually control parliament...


From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 04 June 2005 01:19 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Territorially speaking, to which sides advantage is the continued stalling of the peace process?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9425

posted 05 June 2005 02:33 AM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No question it is to Sharon's advantage.

Vivid realities on the ground go a long way in determining final borders. The more Sharon plays for time, the more the odds increase that the final status negotiations will represent his vision for Israel's borders.


From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
rsfarrell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7770

posted 05 June 2005 09:51 PM      Profile for rsfarrell        Edit/Delete Post
There is an excellent editorial in Haaretz describing the killings and placing them in a context which is farmiliar to those who have been following this thread: "During the second intifada, the army has put very few soldiers and officers on trial, and it seems as if all restraints have been removed."
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 06 June 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by A longsuffering conservative:
No question it is to Sharon's advantage.

Vivid realities on the ground go a long way in determining final borders. The more Sharon plays for time, the more the odds increase that the final status negotiations will represent his vision for Israel's borders.


Thank you for a clear and honest response.

It can at least be said of the kind of tories that come from the Churchillian tradition that they are able to discern the politcal realities as derived from the evident facts, without retreating into preverication and obfuscation.

We are on the same planet, at least.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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