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Author Topic: Syria cuts ties to US Intelligence
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 24 May 2005 12:34 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Associated Press:

quote:
Syria has cut off military and intelligence cooperation with the United States amid strains in relations between the two countries over the insurgency in Iraq, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

In an interview with Syrian Ambassador Imad Moustapha, the newspaper quoted him as saying Friday that in the last 10 days Syria has "severed all links" with the United States military and Central Intelligence Agency because of what he called unjust allegations.

The United States maintains Syria is not doing enough to stop the flow of men and money to the insurgency in Iraq.


Golly, do you suppose that means the US will have to find a new place for their "extraordinary rendition" program? Or do you suppose US officials figure Gitmo is good enough now?

[ 24 May 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 24 May 2005 12:40 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bad luck for those already "rendered" to Syria by the U.S. who are still stuck there, eh?

Or, given what we're hearing about the other places the U.S. is "rendering" people, maybe not such bad luck after all. Suspects "rendered" to Uzbekistan get literally rendered, as in boiled alive.

But then, given what we also hear about U.S. facilities overseas, it appears some American torturers are doing just fine on their own, and maybe they've decided they don't need the Syrians to do it for them any more.

Or maybe this is a signal that the disgraced Richard Perle has actually managed to persuade Bush to invade Syria.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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Babbler # 2938

posted 24 May 2005 12:47 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe they can dust off Nixon's 1970 Cambodian "incursion" speech.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 12:52 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
josh, I thought that Perle and co. considered Nixon dangerously liberal.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 24 May 2005 12:58 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps, but how can they resist using this line:
quote:

If, when the chips are down, the world's most powerful nation, the United States of America, acts like a pitiful, helpless giant, the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy will threaten free nations and free institutions throughout the world.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 01:12 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, gosh, josh: I had just started eating. *bilious smiley*

I see what you mean, though. We knew that then, didn't we. Man, nothing has changed much. Can't get over that.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Panasonic
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Babbler # 9220

posted 24 May 2005 05:01 PM      Profile for Panasonic        Edit/Delete Post
Why blow past the headlines?

If so many Iraqies are being killed by bombers a fair question would be who are the bombers and are they Iraqies or outsiders.

If they are outsiders where did they come from and who is supporting them?

If Syria just pulled 14.000 troops out of Lebanon you would think that they would have more than enough soldiers to manage their border and pacify the USA.

The post above gives the impression that Syria performs the USA's dirty work. Why would the USA break ties with Syria if Syria is doing the dirty work?

Doesn't make sense.


From: Windsor | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 24 May 2005 11:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Panasonic:
Why blow past the headlines?

If so many Iraqies are being killed by bombers a fair question would be who are the bombers and are they Iraqies or outsiders.


This question has been asked, and answered repeatedly by the US Army, who consitently report that around 10% of the militants engaged against the foreign occupying army and its local military and security assets are not born in Iraq.

Also, it should be noted that the division of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan into the countries that they are today, was done under the ageis of the British and French as part of the Paris Peace conference in 1919. These divisions suited the objectives of those countries more or less without consultation with the local population, who were forced to accept the rulership of the Hashemite Kings (King Hussein of Jordan & King Faisal of Syria and then Iraq.) The Hashemites are from a Arab cultural and lingusitic group clearly distinct from the Syrian Arabs, and decend from the Hedjaz who are from the western region of the Saudi Arabian Peninula. The overthrow of the foreign King in 1959 in Iraq was the first in a series of revolts and coups that eventually led to the aquisition of power by Saddam Hussein and his family in 1969.

The point being that when you say "foreign" as determined by borders instituted by European powers, you are ignoring the fact that the demographic reality is that the Syrians of Syria, and the Syrian (Sunni Muslims around Baghdad) have more in commom culuturally, linguisticaly, as a "nation" than they do with the Kurds.

So to many Arabs, your definition of foreign (the one you share with Condeleeza Rice) is not one that many Arabs recognize at all. Really, Damascus (the original Capital of the Muslim world post-Mohammed) is the second city of the nation of Syrians whose capital has been Baghdad since the Abazaid Caliphs.

It is interesting to note that prior to the 20th century the only non-muslim army to capture Baghdad was the Mongol army of Hulaga Khan.

Think of it this way: The people who live in Ireland and Northern Ireland are all still Irish. North and South Koreans are still Koreans. Arabs from around Baghdad, what the Americans euphemistically call the "Sunni triangle," and from what is today called Syria are still Syrian Arabs -- really, this zone known as the Sunni Triangle would be better called the "Syrian Zone" of Iraq.

Of course you will not find Rummy or Rice giving it this distinction, as that would expose inconvenient truths about the Arab reality that run counter to the propoganda perspective you have so succesfully absorbed. Perhaps your inability to "make sense" of the situation is a result of the fact that the propoganda model being presented runs aground on the shores of the Arab reality, which does not conform to the lines drawn up to French and English specifications, and then enshrined in school books and Rand McNally maps printed in New York.

[ 25 May 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Panasonic
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Babbler # 9220

posted 25 May 2005 12:04 PM      Profile for Panasonic        Edit/Delete Post
Cueball,

quote:

Think of it this way: The people who live in Ireland and Northern Ireland are all still Irish. North and South Koreans are still Koreans. Arabs from around Baghdad, what the Americans euphemistically call the "Sunni triangle," and from what is today called Syria are still Syrian Arabs -- really, this zone known as the Sunni Triangle would be better called the "Syrian Zone" of Iraq.

Of course you will not find Rummy or Rice giving it this distinction, as that would expose inconvenient truths about the Arab reality that run counter to the propoganda perspective you have so succesfully absorbed. Perhaps your inability to "make sense" of the situation is a result of the fact that the propoganda model being presented runs aground on the shores of the Arab reality, which does not conform to the lines drawn up to French and English specifications, and then enshrined in school books and Rand McNally maps printed in New York.


So, what i get from this is that the same oppression that Saddam put on the Kurds is also O.K. when the Syrians do it to their Kurds because of false boundries impossed by the French and British?

I think I have it. The Syrian Arabs are just like the Sunni Triangle Arabs and since they are alike its O.K. for them to support suicide car bombers within Iraq.

So if your a Shite Iraqie or a Kurdish Iraqie you need to keep your head down because Syrians and Sunni Iraqies are the same folks.

Makes sense.


From: Windsor | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 May 2005 07:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Panasonic:
Cueball,

So, what i get from this is that the same oppression that Saddam put on the Kurds is also O.K. when the Syrians do it to their Kurds because of false boundries impossed by the French and British?


This is a very strange rendering of my idea. I was just pointing out the historical facts on the ground. But good for you bringing up the Kurds. The Kurds don't recognize any of those borders either. I don't remember Madeliene Albright blaming the Turks because Turkish-Kurds were infiltrating into Northern Iraq to join the Peshmegras fighting Saddam.

Actually I would favour, theoretically at least, a completely independent state for all Kurds made up of territories from Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq. I am not even really a sworn proponent of that either: What I am proponent of is informed commentary based on sufficient historical knowledge based in a mutli-faceted politcal understanding, of all positions of all parties.

You clearly have no understanding of the Syrian Arab position on this, or the historical background to that.

I am also opposed to tendentious attempts to paint the world in black and white such as; "if I mention that some people dubbed foreign fighters by the US do not consider themselves to be foreigners at all, I must perforce support targetting of civilians" etc, as you have alluded with your not very subtle rhetorical questions.

In other words I am trying to introduce you to colour photography. Later maybe I will show you the principals of motion picture production.

[ 26 May 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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Babbler # 3807

posted 26 May 2005 02:28 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Meanwhile, in Turkish Kurdistan...

Five people have been killed in mainly Kurdish southeastern Turkey, in the latest episode of renewed tensions between the army and Kurdish rebels, officials say.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 26 May 2005 02:50 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I notice one of those killed in Turkey was a "Syrian" Kurd. More foreign fighters.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
nister
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Babbler # 7709

posted 26 May 2005 12:28 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball, getting killed doesn't make you guilty of anything. More foreign "collateral", maybe.
From: Barrie, On | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 26 May 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
True enough.

His sheep may have gone astray. You have to be very careful these days when looking for your sheep. There is one fellow in Guantanamo who maintains to this day he was just looking for his sheep in Afghantistan when he was busted by the Feds. He was found near and explosive device apparently. Not unusual in that someone would wander near a land mine in Afghanistan -- the country is littered with them.

I'd run to if I was beset by the Imperial Storm Troopers.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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