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Author Topic: Gay arrests in Saudi Arabia
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 22 May 2005 05:28 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
92 alleged homosexuals arrested in Saudi Arabia.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (UPI) -- Saudi Arabian authorities Sunday reportedly arrested 92 people for being homosexuals during a raid on a gay party in eastern Riyadh.



From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 24 May 2005 12:48 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It has always been a curiosity to me as to why Amnesty International has not taken up the cause of Gay and Lesbian rights in places like Saudi Arabia.

The treatment of Gay men and women in Suadi Arabia should be anathma to us and I would hope that many here would speak out loudly and forcefully.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 01:03 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What. A. Disgusting. Slander.

Amnesty International carries out, non-stop, a major campaign investigating all violations of civil liberties and human rights that come to its attention in Saudi Arabia. Here is the dedicated link.

Anyone who cares about any aspect of this campaign will of course spend some time looking at that site in detail.

As Amnesty explains, it is difficult for them to work on the ground in what I would characterize as an American-supported tyranny* like Saudi Arabia, but their campaigns on behalf of Saudis facing injustice are nevertheless surprisingly successful often.

* ie: "an American-supported tyranny" is not an expression Amnesty would use, for obvious reasons. I alone am responsible for it, although I would hardly be alone in thinking it.

That is about the lowest I've ever seen you go, Mac.

[ 24 May 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 24 May 2005 01:10 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do they not? I didn't know that. I know that lots of us have been speaking out for a long time about the double standard when it comes to the US government condemnation of oppression of women in Iran and Afghanistan and other countries, when they're conveniently silent on how their buddies in Saudi oppress women.

It's pretty shameful, the way gays and lesbians are treated there as well.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 24 May 2005 01:13 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Macabee, that is utterly false. I do recall, a couple of decades ago (at least) Amnesty hesitating to take up persecution for "social" reasons including sexual orientation. (Not just in Saudi Arabia but anywhere). They very clamorously changed their stand after a debate within their ranks. Amnesty now takes up the issues of persecution for sexual orientation as well as on the basis of gender.

I was one of the people involved in support and advocacy for the young Saudi woman who successfully won asylum on the basis of sexist persecution. It was a very long battle which we would not have won without the support of prominent feminists (including Judy Rebick, Dawn Black, Madeleine Parent and Léa Roback, just to name a few) human rights organisations including Rights and Democracy (then familiarly known as the "Broadbent Centre") and Amnesty International, as well as many trade unions and popular associations.

Indeed it is much harder to work "on the ground" in an absolutist theocratic monarchy such as Saudi Arabia than in say, Brazil, where the police's persecution of gay and transgendered people is counter to the letter of the law, but Amnesty certainly does everything it can. If you think it should do more, then you should join and be an active member.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 01:14 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle, there is simply no question that Amnesty will take these cases on. Of course they will.

These cases will advance more quickly, of course, if lots of people volunteer to join Amnesty and get going with the letter-writing. The protests don't happen out of thin air.

So, Mac: you going to volunteer for this one?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 24 May 2005 01:16 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh sorry, it took me about 10 minutes between tasks to compose that post, and skdadl had posted in the meantime. I thought that didn't sound right about Amnesty. Not surprising, really.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
spatrioter
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posted 24 May 2005 01:18 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is an entire website dedicated to Amnesty's various campaigns for LGBT rights around the world, including Saudi Arabia.
From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 24 May 2005 01:23 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

What. A. Disgusting. Slander


What's the truth matter when you have an axe to grind.
quote:

That is about the lowest I've ever seen you go, Mac.


Oh, I've seen him go lower.

From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 24 May 2005 01:33 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Amnesty takes part in the Diverscité (Gay Pride) marches in Montréal every year; I have marched in the contingent (think it is a proper place for a non-LGBT person to show solidarity). I remember a major focus on Iran and on Egypt, in terms of the Muslim and/or Arab world and/or Middle East. I'm sure that Saudi Arabia will not be overlooked.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 24 May 2005 02:45 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
What. A. Disgusting. Slander.

Amnesty International carries out, non-stop, a major campaign investigating all violations of civil liberties and human rights that come to its attention in Saudi Arabia. Here is the dedicated link.

Anyone who cares about any aspect of this campaign will of course spend some time looking at that site in detail.

As Amnesty explains, it is difficult for them to work on the ground in what I would characterize as an American-supported tyranny* like Saudi Arabia, but their campaigns on behalf of Saudis facing injustice are nevertheless surprisingly successful often.

* ie: "an American-supported tyranny" is not an expression Amnesty would use, for obvious reasons. I alone am responsible for it, although I would hardly be alone in thinking it.

That is about the lowest I've ever seen you go, Mac.

[ 24 May 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


Skdadl your righteous indignation is sometimes trying. OK I made an error. AI does deal with these issues. It was an honest mistake but to you its the "lowest" I have ever gone. Take a breath and consider your overblown rhetoric. Yes I guess Im risking a tar and feathering to take on the untouchable Skadal , but honestly Skadal this has to be about the lowest Ive ever seen you go.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 24 May 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Michelle, there is simply no question that Amnesty will take these cases on. Of course they will.

These cases will advance more quickly, of course, if lots of people volunteer to join Amnesty and get going with the letter-writing. The protests don't happen out of thin air.

So, Mac: you going to volunteer for this one?



My letter was sent the moment I read about it. What about yours? BTW I have been a dues paying member of AI for years.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 02:50 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How very odd. That any member of AI would have leapt to the completely unsupported and horrifyingly negative conclusions that you did in the second post of this thread, when no one else had even mentioned AI before ... how very odd that is.

NB: This didn't start out to be a thread about AI.

I was going to ask you, Mac, whether your suspicious views of AI were purely personal.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 24 May 2005 02:52 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just for the record:

quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
It has always been a curiosity to me as to why Amnesty International has not taken up the cause of Gay and Lesbian rights in places like Saudi Arabia.

The treatment of Gay men and women in Suadi Arabia should be anathma to us and I would hope that many here would speak out loudly and forcefully.


"IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CURIOSITY TO ME ..."


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 24 May 2005 02:52 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:

My letter was sent the moment I read about it. What about yours? BTW I have been a dues paying member of AI for years.


Doesn't read the literature. It makes Mac uncomfortable because some of it talks about other people, in other countries near Saudia Arabia.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 24 May 2005 02:57 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
How very odd. That any member of AI would have leapt to the completely unsupported and horrifyingly negative conclusions that you did in the second post of this thread, when no one else had even mentioned AI before ... how very odd that is.

NB: This didn't start out to be a thread about AI.

I was going to ask you, Mac, whether your suspicious views of AI were purely personal.


I like AI for the most part, respect its work...I just didnt recall seeing anything of interest on THIS issue. It was a mistake that's all so get off it unless of course my mistake is so much more important than the issue at hand!!!

[ 24 May 2005: Message edited by: Macabee ]


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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Babbler # 6289

posted 24 May 2005 03:07 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Skdadl your righteous indignation is sometimes trying. OK I made an error. AI does deal with these issues. It was an honest mistake but to you its the "lowest" I have ever gone. Take a breath and consider your overblown rhetoric. Yes I guess Im risking a tar and feathering to take on the untouchable Skadal , but honestly Skadal this has to be about the lowest Ive ever seen you go.

No, we now have seen Macabee go lower than ever before.

First, it is my opinion, if one truly does belong to AI, I fail to see how they would not know AI was very active in this arena. I get e-mail updates from them all the time on all their activities.

Second, I find your spurious comment very offensive regarding the falsely alleged state of skdals's untouchableness. I have not seen her treated any different than anyone else here is. Either by the moderators, or by the other posters including myself.

Third, you have blamed her and called her low, for your errors, both in your false AI comment and her subsequent correcting of you.


Apologies are in order.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 24 May 2005 03:07 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
All right, all right.

Let's try this again, shall we?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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