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Author Topic: A Summary of the War Against Iraq
al-Qa'bong
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posted 17 April 2005 06:17 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What I heard about Iraq
quote:
...On September 11, 2001, six hours after the attacks, I heard that Donald Rumsfeld said that it might be an opportunity to "hit" Iraq. I heard that he said: "Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 April 2005 02:50 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That one hits hard.
It's funny, just going back and looking at the whole thing from the beginning, all the asinine things they said, the lies, the contradictions, the death, the callousness--it makes it all fresh again, reminds me that this insanity isn't normal.

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 18 April 2005 08:26 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh you know, they all want to be "great men" movers and shakers in history. They forget that it was Claudius who made Rome great not Ceasar.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 18 April 2005 08:39 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Another one, (and makes you wonder about the Iraqis who the media doesn't really worry too much about):

quote:
I heard that, in the last year alone, the US had fired 127 tons of Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions in Iraq, the atomicity equivalent of approximately 10,000 Nagasaki bombs. I heard that the widespread use of DU in Gulf War I was believed to be the primary cause of the health problems suffered among its 580,400 veterans. Four hundred sixty-seven were wounded in the war. Ten years later, 11,000 were dead, and 325,000 on medical disability. DU carried in semen led to high rates of endometriosis, leading to hysterectomies, in their wives and girlfriends. Of soldiers who had healthy babies before the war, sixty-seven percent of their babies post-war were born with severe defects, including missing legs, arms, organs, or eyes.



From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 April 2005 05:19 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, that makes me wonder about something else.
In Gulf War I, the American soldiers died after they went home. But this is long term occupation. DU kills pretty slow, but at some point the number of soldiers invalided out due to poisoning from their own ammunition is going to start challenging the number killed by the Iraqis. And when the word on that starts getting out, who's going to want to enlist? How heavy will resistance to the draft be if it becomes clear that a tour in Iraq means, at a minimum, horribly malformed babies, and at the higher end a slow horrible death plus giving your wife cancer by making love to her?

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 19 April 2005 12:21 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Imagine how the Iraqis feel.

There are babies still being born in Vietnam who are malformed because of all the toxins left in the land by the Yanquis over 30 years ago. And these are just chemicals, not radioactive waste with a half-life of thousands of years.

In a few hundred years, people are going to look back on the USA in a manner similar to that with which we look back to the Mongols and the Black Death.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Being
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posted 19 April 2005 07:34 PM      Profile for Being   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
If it wasn't for the Mongols we probably wouldn't have had a lot of things we have now. There are just as many good outcomes from bad things as there are bad outcomes from good things.

The Black Death? Taught us Epedemiology in a HURRY!

~~every cloud has a silver lining~~


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 19 April 2005 11:34 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good point.

The 1929 Stock Market Crash, for instance, while being the catalyst for the Great Depression and the financial ruin of thousands, nevertheless encouraged many business consultants to jump out of high windows.


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Fidel
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posted 20 April 2005 04:09 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Apparently, the US military were using DU in Afghanistan as well as Yugoslavia. The pro-nukes always said they could send nuclear waste into space or a deep mine shaft. It's so much easier to just dump it in someone elses backyard.

Republican's couldn't care less about their war vets as their VA Dept reports at least 250 000 veterans of various wars are currently without an address to mail their cheques to. Some 70 000 are said to be Vietnam vets.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 20 April 2005 06:48 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Being:
If it wasn't for the Mongols we probably wouldn't have had a lot of things we have now. There are just as many good outcomes from bad things as there are bad outcomes from good things.

The Black Death? Taught us Epedemiology in a HURRY!

~~every cloud has a silver lining~~



Two things:

1) You just compared the US invasion of Iraq with the Mongol liberation of Eastern Europe, and their sack of Baghdad. Interestingly, some scholars have put forward the thesis that it was the sack of Baghdad that turned Islam inward and made it more conservative.

2) Why is it that you guys always take out the PM function when you create your third or fourth identity so that you can troll. Afraid that someone might talk to you. Talk about being inward looking and conservative.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 21 April 2005 01:54 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Turns out the US Army does do body counts, according to Marla Ruzicka:
quote:
...But in an essay Ms Ruzicka wrote a week before her death on Saturday and published yesterday, the 28-year-old revealed that a Brigadier General told her it was "standard operating procedure" for US troops to file a report when they shoot a non-combatant.

She obtained figures for the number of civilians killed in Baghdad between 28 February and 5 April, and discovered that 29 had been killed in firefights involving US forces and insurgents. This was four times the number of Iraqi police killed.

"These statistics demonstrate that the US military can and does track civilian casualties," she wrote. "Troops on the ground keep these records because they recognise they have a responsibility to review each action taken and that it is in their interest to minimise mistakes, especially since winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis is a key component of their strategy." ...



From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 21 April 2005 02:20 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Been thinking,

Do we think that MAYBE, after 5 or so years of occupying a DU-contaminated Iraq, with 100,000 poisoned troops, and their spouses and post-tours of duty babies similarly poisoned, .... and after their medical bills and class action lawsuits become so costly that the next repugnicrat puppet's government just unilaterally slashes its responsibility for them,
.... Do we think that MAYBE, after 300,000 Americans have been poisoned, crippled, murdered, and betrayed by their corporate government, that MAYBE it'll sink in that MAYBE their country doesn't have their best interests at heart, and MAYBE doesn't even give a shit about them, whether they live with, or die from, a horrible bout of poisonous cancer, .... and then MAYBE enough Americans will see past the stupid evasions of the latest Rush Limbaugh and MAYBE rebel against the system that betrays everything they think their country is supposed to stand for?

And MAYBE, just MAYBE, after having ripped dubya, cheney, rumsfeld, etc., to shreds and burned the House of Representatives and the Senate to the ground in righteous rage, they'll pause and understand that what happened to them was visited ten-fold upon the people of Iraq, and other peoples, and they'll shake off their narcissm and use their country's wealth and power to make amends for what their system did?

And then we can cheerfully toss out the corporate US shills here in Canada, Stephen Harper, ad nauseum, and work with the new United States of America?


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 21 April 2005 02:28 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No. 300,000 Americans is equal to 10% or the African American population of the United States. The numbers are electorally significant enough to represent a threat to the electoral requirements of the repugnicrats. Therefore, as with the Vietnam veterans, they can be safely ignored and forgotten.

Our pro-military friensds on the right might do well to notice that the repugnicrats are the ones who are always cutting veteran benefits and who leave the walking wounded out on the vine to rot, while it is the leftist activists who take up the cause of veteran rights and care long after the senseless killing has stopped.

But, hey, what do they care about veterans? They did their job and are no longer needed. Quit complaining and get into the human trash heap.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 21 April 2005 04:19 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Think you missed a "not" in your second sentence, there.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 21 April 2005 04:26 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
If "No." counts as a sentence, it's the third sentence that's missing a "not."
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Contrarian
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posted 25 April 2005 03:55 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
New York Times article on Iraqi casualties and Marla Ruzicka:
quote:
...So the public doesn't even hear about the American bombs that fall mistakenly on the homes of innocent civilians, wiping out entire families...

...This stunning lack of interest in the toll the war has taken on civilians is one of the reasons Ms. Ruzicka, who was just 28 when she died, felt compelled to try to personally document as much of the suffering as she could. At times she would go from door to door in the most dangerous areas, taking down information about civilians who had been killed or wounded. She believed fiercely that Americans needed to know about the terrible pain the war was inflicting, and that we had an obligation to do everything possible to mitigate it.

Her ultimate goal, which Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont is pursuing, was to establish a U.S. government office, perhaps in the State Department, to document the civilian casualties of American military operations. That information would then be publicly reported. Compensation would be provided for victims and their families, and the data would be studied in an effort to minimize civilian casualties in future operations...



From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged

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