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WingNut
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posted 16 February 2005 10:56 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said he agreed to pull soldiers and settlers from the Gaza Strip because of assurances from US President George Bush that large settlements in the West Bank would forever remain part of the Jewish state.

Mr Sharon's comments came as Israel said settlers removed from the Gaza Strip would be allowed to move into a new settlement in the West Bank.



Bold and Italics added.

Story

[ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 16 February 2005 10:59 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
True Wingnut but at the same time something different. Jordan returns its ambassador to Israel, Egypt to follow suit shortly.

From AP:

quote:
JAMAL HALABY
ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMMAN, Jordan — Jordan said today that it is returning its ambassador to Israel on Sunday, setting the stage for a normalizing of diplomatic relations between Amman and Tel Aviv after a four-year break.

The decision was made by Jordan's Cabinet late yesterday and follows the recent Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire secured during a summit in Egypt attended by Jordan's King Abdullah II.

"Mr. Marouf al-Bakhit will be in his office in Tel Aviv on Sunday," Jordanian government spokeswoman Asma Khader said.

Jordan and Egypt, the only Arab states that have signed peace treaties with Israel, downgraded representation after the September 2000 outbreak of a Palestinian uprising, protesting what they said was Israel's excessively forceful response.

Jordan had formally asked Israel last week to approve its nomination of al-Bakhit, who is currently serving as the kingdom's envoy to Turkey. Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom's office said a swift approval was expected.

Egypt has said it will send an ambassador back to Israel, but it has not said when and has not named the envoy.



From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 11:02 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wingy, that link doesn't work -- different story.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 16 February 2005 11:05 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
here is the star's version of a similar story.

Edited to try to fix link sorry folks

netscape news:Israel at crossroads to peace

[ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 16 February 2005 11:10 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry, skdadl, it is fixed. However it is Australia's The Age and is subscriber only. Send me an IM and I will give you my username and password.
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WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 16 February 2005 11:15 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Johnpaul, the diplomatic maneuvering of US toadies does not in any way impact life on the ground for Palestinians. What is becoming clear, is that nothing has changed. Israel still plans for Palestinians a Bantu-type existence of settlements on the worst land and wothout resources. More from the article:

quote:
Mr Sharon said on Tuesday that Mr Bush supported, in concept, a final peace deal in which Israel would keep land in the West Bank and not have to accept any Palestinian refugees if Mr Sharon moved ahead with a Gaza withdrawal.

"I don't think that we made compromise or concessions without getting anything in return," Mr Sharon said in Jerusalem, referring to what has become known as the Gaza disengagement plan. "In the agreement between Bush and myself we (received) tremendous achievements that Israel never had since its establishment."



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skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 11:22 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wingy, your revised link works fine: I didn't have to sign in.

This sounds indeed like more of the same:

quote:
On Tuesday, officials said Israel had plans to build a new settlement in the West Bank that could take in settlers uprooted from Gaza, drawing protest from Palestinians who fear losing land for a state they seek.

Gvaot, planned as an extension to the Gush Etzion settlement bloc, appeared to fall within the cracks of a US-led "road map" peace plan whose final vision is hotly disputed as Israel and the Palestinians try to stabilise a tentative ceasefire.



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WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 22 February 2005 09:40 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
A Palestinian village in the northern West Bank has appealed for pressure to be put on Israel to end the recurrent poisoning of their only source of water supply by Jewish settlers.

Last week, heavily armed settlers from the settlement of Yitzhar, near Nablus, vandalised and sabotaged the water supply on which the nearby village of Madama depends.

The latest poisoning is the seventh of its kind during the past three years, according to village officials.



Aljazeera

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WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 22 February 2005 11:36 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

The Israeli cabinet completed its Sunday deliberations on disengagement from Gaza by agreeing to changes in the planned route of the security fence that will leave 7 per cent of West Bank land and 15’000 Palestinians on the Israeli side of the wall. In a savvy political maneuver, the new map was approved on the same day as the Gaza plan to prevent international condemnation of what amounts to a unilateral confiscation of West Bank land in violation of UN resolutions and an International Court of Justice ruling. In June 2004, Israel’s Supreme Court ordered that the route of the proposed wall and fence network should be moved closer to the Green Line to make life easier for local Palestinian communities. The government's new plan does take this into account: The area of the West Bank to be left to the west of the fence will be halved. However, the true intent of the plan became evident on Sunday when Sharon’s cabinet decided to include all of the larger West Bank settlement blocs on the Israeli side of the wall, including Ma'aleh Adumim, the Gush Etzion bloc south of Jerusalem, and Ariel. The 19’000 residents of Ariel have proven particularly difficult to incorporate into the separation wall plan, given the isolated position of the settlement southwest of Nablus. Sharon has now promised that the town will be incorporated on the Israeli side of the wall, effectively cutting off Palestinian access to the area from the north and south. Those Palestinian communities that have been trapped on the Israeli side of the wall by the new plan have been assured that they will have easy access to the West Bank. However, similar promises in the past have proved specious, with the Israeli army often closing access gates for long periods without justification and implementing confusing and often contradictory permit regulations.

ISN


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WingNut
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posted 22 February 2005 01:07 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In Palestine, then, the situation--the 'status quo'- is far from static. The Palestinians who continue their attacks are not trying to 'wreck' any peace process. They are trying to counter a pattern of encroachment which constantly works against them, and on which the peace process has no effect.

Israel's good-will gestures, however sincere, concern everything *but* this encroachment. Checkpoints are relaxed; troops withdrawn; prisoners released. Some settlements are evacuated. But settlement activity continues at about the same pace as before, and on balance the settlements keep building up. This means, for the present, continually increasing misery for the Palestinians: less land, fewer resources, more difficult travel, deteriorating health care, malnutrition, and the implantation of a hostile population, protected by the Israeli army and bent on expelling the Palestinians from every inch remaining to them.



Counterpunch

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Cueball
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posted 23 February 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I dont know its seems like this whole appeasement of Palestinians is just mor Bait and Switch. A peace process, whith Palestinians while preassure is increased on Syria.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 24 February 2005 01:53 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When Ariel Sharon began singling out settlements for future eviction, he knew just where to look.

Arguing that Israel could best cement its grip on major West Bank settlement blocs - which polls show are supported by the majority of Israelis - by relinquishing control over the areas Israelis care about least, Sharon began with the unwanted stepchild enclaves of Gaza and the northern West Bank.


Haaretz


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WingNut
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posted 04 March 2005 10:35 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
According to the confiscation orders, which were published on Wednesday, the Israeli army will expropriate the land extending from the village of al-Burj to southern Yatta.


This covers hundreds of acres of farmland, including numerous olive groves, and will further diminish the size of any prospective Palestinian state in the West Bank.


Aljazeera.Net


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WingNut
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posted 04 March 2005 10:36 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In the meantime, Sharon is keeping himself occupied with building on the 7 percent of the territory that has been approved by the government decision. All this area between the wall and the Green Line — the territory already annexed in practice — is being filled with new settlements. Among others:

* A new town called Gevaoth that is to be built west of Bethlehem, in what is called the “Etzion Bloc”. That is a mendacious name: the original Etzion Bloc consisted of a small group of settlements near the Green Line. It was occupied by the Arabs in the 1948 war and re-conquered by Israel in 1967, when the former settlements were also re-built. But then a whole new town (Efrata) was added to the east, and beyond that a number of new settlements, until the original few settlements had expanded into a massive settlement bloc almost surrounding Bethlehem. Now Sharon is going to fill it with even more settlers.

* A big new settlement called “North Tsufim” that is to be built north of Qalqilia. This, too, will reach the proportions of a town.

* Giant housing projects, that will be set up in order to connect the Ma’aleh Adumim bloc to Jerusalem, and just about reach the Jordan river.

* Also in the Jerusalem area, the new (Labour) minister for housing, Yitzhak Herzog, promises to build big housing projects from Har Homa to Ma’aleh Adumim, while another one is going to be built east of A-Ram. The aim is to cut Jerusalem off completely from the West Bank.

All this is happening while Israel and the world are waxing lyrical about the “disengagement” plan — which, in essence, is nothing but a plan to consolidate the Gaza strip as one of the enclaves in “a state of scattered territories”. (The Gaza Strip constitutes only 6 percent of the occupied territories.)


Uri Averny


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Insurrection
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posted 05 March 2005 05:36 PM      Profile for Insurrection     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Updated map of the Separation Barrier (PDF)
A comparison between the old route and the recently approved route.

B'Tselem


From: exit in the world | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 06 March 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post
I travelled to Israel recently on business and had a chance to see this barrier. I am having some trouble understanding why so many people think of it as a wall.

While a small part of it is a wall, it is built in those areas where snipers were shooting at civilians. My business partner, an Arab Israeli, tells me that in one of those incidents before that part of the wall was built anumber of innocent people were shot including two Arabs. Seems to make sense that a wall to stop the shooting should be erected in certain spots.

However the vast majority of the barrier is fence.

Now I have problems with where some of the barrier was located but the statistics do strongly suggest that the barrier has saved many lives. My partner tells me that most of the Israeli Arabs quietly support the barrier as well.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 07 March 2005 09:16 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

We've dealt with the misleading semantic argument on babble before, Ohara. You might be interested in these threads: Fence or wall? Either way it's spelled L.A.N.D. G.R.A.B. The lie of the wall.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 08 March 2005 09:28 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ohara is quite right and ofcourse you Briguy are very selective in what you show. Over 95% is fence. I know It. I saw it. And here you even have Ohara telling you that the fence has saved Arab lives but you just dont seem to care.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 08 March 2005 10:39 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You of course, miss the point, Macabee. The difference between a fence and a wall is about the same as the difference between a door and a portal.

Shall we go over the whole "why isn't it on the Green Line?" question once more, as well? We've already covered these topics, numerous times.

Saving Arab lives? This site doesn't register much of a blip.

I'll hold my breath while you pointlessly find images which portray a happy, smiling fence, Mac.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 08 March 2005 11:33 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
With happy Arabs smiling for the cameras while the IDF and the boss (cheque in pocket) look on from the other side.

Second hand testimonies from business "partners" hardly count evidence. Rather one might look at how Arab Israelis actually vote. Needless to say few vote for Likud or Labour, they vote for Arab knesset members, of which every last one opposes the fence. Golly gee who would have thought?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 08 March 2005 04:10 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My God Arab Knesseth members you say...Israel permits Arabs in the Knesseth. How did that happen. Oh yes Israel is a democratic country.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 08 March 2005 04:34 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israel is best described as a fake democracy. Just check out the analysis by Israeli dissident Michael Warschawski.

Towards an Open Tomb: The Crisis of Israeli Society

Here are some excerpts from Warschawski's outstanding article:

quote:
Democracy for Israelis has always been restricted to two things: predominance of the majority over the minority by means of elections and the acts of the executive branch being based on laws adopted by a parliamentary majority (AIC Special Reports, winter 1986). This is obviously a rather meager conception of democracy, which completely neglects the concept of rights. Contrary to what has often been claimed, the fact that Israel has never had a constitution is not the sole responsibility of the religious parties. The real reason is that Zionist politicians have never been capable of writing a real democratic constitution, guaranteeing equality of all citizens...

quote:
The flexibility of laws is one corollary of the absence of a concept of rights in Israeli democracy. Even when rights are mentioned explicitly, as in the fundamental laws adopted during the years of the liberal interval, they are always conditional: “provided that no law exists to the contrary,” or “except in case of emergency,” or “if this does not contradict the Jewish character of the State of Israel.” In short, fundamental rights exist—like the principles of gender equality and equality between citizens of different faiths—unless the parliament has decided democratically, that is, by a simple parliamentary majority, to infringe them

quote:
When a country has created borders that it has continually expanded in violation of every rule of international law; when the end, that is, the Jewish state, always justifies the means; then it should be no surprise that respecting Israel’s own rules turns out to be terribly difficult. Ordinary citizens follow the example of their leaders, who apply at home the same lack of rules that they have applied systematically in international relations. The impunity that Israel enjoys within the international community is not only a denial of justice to the victims of its permanent aggression; it is also one reason for the internal degeneration of Israeli society. “But why should I be the only one in this country who obeys the laws?” the racquetball player asks on the Haifa beach.

In short, "In Israel, no one has any rights just by being a citizen."

[ 08 March 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 March 2005 10:55 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.azmibishara.info/

quote:
At 9 a.m. on Monday 8 November 2004, the Supreme Court of Israel will hold its first hearing on a petition filed by Adalah on behalf of Member of Knesset (MK) Dr. Azmi Bishara, head of the National Democratic Assembly party (NDA) in the political speeches case. The petition was submitted on 24 December 2003 against the Knesset, the Attorney General and the Nazareth Magistrate Court following the Magistrate Court's decision of November 2003 not to dismiss the indictment against MK Bishara. For the first time since 1948, the Knesset lifted the immunity of an MK for political speech in order to file an indictment against him. This is an unprecedented event in the history of Israeli politics.

[ 08 March 2005: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 09 March 2005 07:59 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Report: Israel Is Funding Outposts

quote:
The Israeli government is funding and building Jewish settlement outposts across the West Bank in violation of its own laws and international mandates, according to a government-sanctioned report scheduled to be released Wednesday.

Parts of the study, ordered six months ago by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and conducted by a former chief state prosecutor, Talia Sasson, were published Tuesday by Maariv, an Israeli newspaper.

In the report, Sasson concludes that "the violation of the law has become institutional and institutionalized" in some government agencies, according to the newspaper account. "There is blatant violation of the law by certain state authorities, public authorities, regional councils in [the West Bank] and the settlers."

Government agencies have long denied complicity in the construction of settlement outposts in the West Bank, usually blaming Jewish settler organizations that officials say are independent of the government. But Sasson's report describes direct involvement by the Israeli government -- including the ministries of Defense and of Construction and Housing -- in outpost construction that violates not only Israeli law but the "road map" peace plan backed by the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations.



From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 09 March 2005 11:08 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
While a small part of it is a wall, it is built in those areas where snipers were shooting at civilians.

If it is so benign why a wall where the IDF is stationed?

quote:
My partner tells me that most of the Israeli Arabs quietly support the barrier as well.

I clearly remember, to this day, a white South African telling me most blacks preferred the homelands and living apart from whites. I can almost hear "some of my best friends are Arab."

[ 09 March 2005: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Insurrection
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posted 11 March 2005 08:58 PM      Profile for Insurrection     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
World must persuade Israel to tear down barrier on Palestinian land – UN meeting

quote:
A United Nations International Meeting on the Question of Palestine has called on the international community to adopt measures to persuade Israel to dismantle a separation barrier it is building on occupied Palestinian territory and to make reparations for all damages caused by its construction.

The two-day meeting, which ended yesterday in Geneva, called for Israeli compliance with international law and last year’s advisory opinion by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) that the construction of a wall, which Israel says it is building for security reasons, is illegal where it runs on occupied territory and should be torn down.

The final document, read out at the closing session by Victor Camilleri, Rapporteur of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People which convened the Meeting, expressed serious concern at the continued settlement activities in the West Bank including in and around East Jerusalem, and cautioned against any transfer of Israeli settlers from the Gaza Strip to the West Bank.


[ 11 March 2005: Message edited by: Insurrection ]


From: exit in the world | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 12 March 2005 02:16 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:

I clearly remember, to this day, a white South African telling me most blacks preferred the homelands and living apart from whites. I can almost hear "some of my best friends are Arab."

[ 09 March 2005: Message edited by: WingNut ]


Unfair and pretty shitty insinuation. As usual, no proof just your opinion basically labeling someone as intolerant. I thought you got away from that sort of thing Wingnut but I guess not.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 March 2005 02:28 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But I've heard white South Africans say things like that. Hell, I heard white Americans say things like that. Double hell, when I was a kid in this country, I heard Canadians say things like that.

I'm sure that Wingy is not making that up.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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