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Author Topic: My nation of heroes, my chosen people . . .
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 25 November 2004 01:34 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Julie Burchill always provocative.

My nation of heroes, my chosen people . . .


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 25 November 2004 02:04 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wondered where Julie (formerly of the Guardian) had gone. Over to the dark side? Always provocative, lots of verve, and a very, very nasty, self-centred person (Lea McLaren does a very poor Burchill imitation)...

But sorry, I'm on the side of her Jew ... and mine ... I don't like big blond brutes in tanks, prefer bespectacled scholars ... and many of them fought the Nazis heroically. The "Jews going willingly to their deaths" stuff is bullshit.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 25 November 2004 02:51 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On that I couldnt agree more
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 01:26 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
I wonder if anyone here turned to page 2 to stumble upon such garbage:

quote:
You see it from the car, being driven from Jerusalem to Eilat, when you ask your Israeli tour guide what is that place over there that looks . . . different? Oh, that’s the Bedouins. That’s the Palestinians. That’s where they cut off people ’s hands and stone women to death, because it’s their culture, and that’s what so much of the “civilised” world wants even more of Israel to be sacrificed unto.

Or

quote:
You see it in Ariel Sharon, that alleged hawk of hawks, sending in the Israeli Defence Force to violently evict 8,000 Jews from the Gaza in order to go ONE STEP CLOSER towards peace with a people who want his own people dead. You see it in the beautiful English Jewish journalist Charlotte Halle from Haaretz, the “Tel Aviv Guardian”, married to an Israeli, with a three-year-old son, who only comes near to losing her temper once with me — when I express too much antipathy towards the Palestinians who already want her baby son dead, because he will grow up to be a Jew, and she is prepared to go, as her ceaseless, blameless, shameless people are always prepared to go, for ever a bridge too far.


Ariel Sharon is violently removing illegal settlements by financially compensating settlers. I wish he could unleash commesurate violence on Palestinians. No wait, with Palestinians, he is taking steps closer towards peace.

Or

quote:
You see it in Nadia’s eyes when she says, so serenely, in the car after Yad Vashem: “I always knew that lots of people had suffered. But if ever, EVER, anyone says that anyone has ever suffered like the Jews did, you know now that they’re either one of two things. One, they're silly. Or two, they’re just a little bit WICKED.”

Let me get this straight: So the Armenians who lost 1.5 million, or the Assyrians who lost 750,000 (out of a million, 75% of the population), or the natives of both Americas, or those in Rwanda, or those in Darfur, or, or, or ...are silly or wicked.

What a filthy assortment of cliched propaganda and racist diatribe! I am wondering if this article complies with Babble policy, seeing how much bigotry it comprises (not to mention sloppy historical narratives, but this is another issue).


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 26 November 2004 01:52 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I didn't read the whole thing. I stopped at the first paragraph. People who indulge in such overwrought and maudlin prose rarely ever say anything useful.

I'm shocked at the racism, though.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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Babbler # 2534

posted 26 November 2004 01:56 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I confess I didn't even get to page 2. What she is saying about Palestinians - and pro-peace Israelis - is definitely contrary to rabble policy. The problem with this, as with the anti-semitic site yesterday, is whether linking to something is tantamount to endorsing their viewpoint.

Often misogynous, militaristic, anti-worker, anti-poor things from the enemy are posted here. Racism has a specific place in terms of hate speech, but I doubt rabble could ever be actionable for posting stuff from a mainstream (but conservative) newspaper such as The Times (of London). Babblers have posted similar CanWest stuff...

Well, in any case, we have the answer to why Julie no longer writes for the Guardian, eh? She has followed Oriana Fallaci into the anti-Arab version of the dustbin of history... Like Fallaci, Julie B used to be sort of left-wing, when she wasn't too busy admiring herself to be anything.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 26 November 2004 01:59 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, I don't think linking to it here is that big a deal. In fact, it's useful.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
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Babbler # 7186

posted 26 November 2004 02:10 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: addie ]


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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Babbler # 2534

posted 26 November 2004 02:13 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I found a reply by the Israeli journalist Julie trashed in her article!
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/492930.html

And a Julie Burchill drivel generator:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_tabraham/jbrr.htm


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 26 November 2004 02:44 PM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Does she ever manage to get through a column without mentioning sex with her ex-husbands?

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: N.R.KISSED ]


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
liminal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 02:47 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by addie:

Where does the racism in the comment enter into the equation.

Is Nadia ignorant. Yes. She is ignorant to the suffering that the Armenian people suffered. She is ignorant to those in Rwanda, she is ignorant to those in Darfur, She is ignorant to the Assyrians.

Remember she was talking about her visit to the Jewish Holocaust museum. Not a trip to a global genocide museum.

But just because she does not know about other acts of mass murder and genocide that does make her statement racist.

It shows nadias ignorance to the suffering of others.

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: addie ][/QB]


There is no way in hell, Addie, that you can cloake her racism and blame it on ignorance. You'll have to try harder.

If Nadia said" I don't think any other people suffered as much" or " I wonder if any other people suffered as much" or, or, it might pass as ignorance, but when she accuses anyone who claims that they suffered as much (not even more, as much) of being silly, even W-I-C-K-E-D, she is a racist and a bigot.


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 02:49 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Does she ever manage to get through a column without mentioning sex with her ex-husbands?



From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 26 November 2004 03:19 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: addie ]


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 26 November 2004 03:20 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Only when she is discussing her lesbian interludes...

I think that basically she is always having sex with herself anyway.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 03:34 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by addie:

Try harder? I am not trying anything -- i never knew that showing another opinion on the same issues means a cloak.

Why is it that if i write my opinion i am cloaking racism and defending racism. When you write your opinion calling someoen a racist it is legitimate? How do you know she can'tbe ignorrant. How do you know that the intent of her commetns were racist.

But who are you to tell me that your opinion is correct because you said it and when i give mine i am cloaking.

If we can not have an exchange of ideas here without being accused of being a racist, defending racism then what is the purpose of babble? You and i can disagree on an issue. That does not make your opinion more correct than mine. It is simply a difference of opinion.

Unless of course you are not willing to contemplate another opinion. If that is the case then you are right i am cloaking and it does not matter if i try harder because you will not agree with anything that i write.


So this degenerates into me being unacceptable of other people's opinions, and about the mechanisms of debate? First, I have never accused you of racism: I said "cloaking HER racism", meaning that I argue that Nadia is cleraly racist. Second, I stated my opinion about Nadia's racism, you stated yours about the possibility of it being ignorance not racism, I replied by explaining why I think it can't pass as ignorance and why it is blatantly racist. It was your turn to buttress your position on why you think it is ignorance and why my assumption doesn't work. Instead, you chose to accuse me of being supercelious about the rightousness of my opinion and the belittling of yours. You even accused me of designating you as a racist.

You preach debate, practice it. Don't accuse posters of bullying you, don't let the thread be derailed. You thought I am wrong in my assumption, I backed up, back up your position instead of charging me with persecuting you.


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
miles
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Babbler # 7209

posted 26 November 2004 03:42 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Liminal i am just reading this thread again now.

It is an interesting exchange that you adie are having.

But you know what you did say

quote:
There is no way in hell, Addie, that you can cloake her racism and blame it on ignorance. You'll have to try harder.

It seems to me you threw down the gauntlet so to speak and adie responded.


I think that the article is a good one because it is allowing all of us to discuss an issue from another side. Whether we agree with it or are against it. The side of the "average" Israeli.

I found this quote telling about the Israeli psychi.

quote:
You see it in Ariel Sharon, that alleged hawk of hawks, sending in the Israeli Defence Force to violently evict 8,000 Jews from the Gaza in order to go ONE STEP CLOSER towards peace with a people who want his own people dead

It was interesting to hear a view of an Israeli that was not pro-settlement and was in favour of the IDF of removing by force if necessary settlers.


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 05:42 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
Addie said:
quote:
I think that the article is a good one because it is allowing all of us to discuss an issue from another side. Whether we agree with it or are against it. The side of the "average" Israeli.

You (as Miles or as Addie) think an article where the writer espouses racist views about a population good? I don't know about others, but any article that contains such statements as

quote:
That’s the Palestinians. That’s where they cut off people ’s hands and stone women to death, because it’s their culture, and that’s what so much of the “civilised” world wants even more of Israel to be sacrificed unto.

is an article worthy of reproach. Imagine an article full of anti-Jewish diatribe, and someone claiming it is a good article because it "is allowing all of us to discuss an issue from another side". I'm sorry, vile articles of such a caliber express serious bigotry, and should be confronted as to what they are.

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: liminal ]


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 05:45 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
For the record, I believe sock puppetting is really pathetic, especially when it is so obvious.
From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 26 November 2004 05:47 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It seems to me you threw down the gauntlet so to speak and adie responded.

No one threw down a gauntlet. Why does every discussion about Israel have to be a challenge to Israeli apologists? I'm on the verge of saying to all Israeli apologists..."No one asked you! I don't care what you have to say. Racism is racism, and whatever sophistry you might engage in to dismiss that is immaterial."


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 26 November 2004 05:50 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I think that basically she is always having sex with herself anyway.

Heh, Lagatta.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 26 November 2004 06:09 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For the record, I think you're doing a great job, liminal, and thanks for as much analysis as we need from that text. I got halfway through page two and then decided that life is too short for some crap.

It is racist nonsense, but as lagatta hints so amusingly above, it's offensive for other reasons as well. We must do a deconstruction sometime of the Egowoman that Burchill is trying to pretend her way into in that column, so like the Egowoman of, unfortunately, a large number of columnists one tries not to read any more.

But small doses are already too much at one time, so I'm off to find a tonic.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 26 November 2004 06:20 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you suppose her hot and progressive Jewish ex-hubbie is on the meet market?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 26 November 2004 06:43 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
lagatta, you shock me.

But if you find out, let me know, ok?

Seriously, what is wrong with these women??? I mean, you can see their entire needy biographies through everything they write. It is embarrassing.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 06:46 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Do you suppose her hot and progressive Jewish ex-hubbie is on the meet market?

Lagatta, Lagatta. Do you really want to give her something else to bitch about?

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: liminal ]


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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Babbler # 5617

posted 26 November 2004 06:53 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
lagatta, you shock me.

But if you find out, let me know, ok?



Et tu Skdadl?

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: liminal ]


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 26 November 2004 07:04 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What an odd response, liminal.

But no, for two reasons:

1. I am not needy. I am too old and ugly to be needy.

2. When I want to write biography, I do it straight from the shoulder. Otherwise, I try to focus on other things. I was trained in what Keats calls "negative capability," aka empathy, and that is the opposite of bio-creep.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 26 November 2004 07:19 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
skdadl, not that I think you are needy - quite the contrary - but number one makes no sense whatsoever.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 26 November 2004 07:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I find my decrepitude most liberating, lagatta.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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posted 26 November 2004 07:22 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
Skdadl

I meant you too are willing to give Burchill something else to complain about, by landing her ex-husband.

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: liminal ]


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 26 November 2004 07:25 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Aha, liminal. I figured I must be misreading.

And, well, yes! She might not want him any more, but I'll bet she doesn't want the rest of us to set our caps for him either. We know that syndrome, don't we.

Och. She is such a silly person. And there are so many of her in print, although I run into almost none of her in real life. Why is that?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 November 2004 08:22 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why is that? I don't know but sometimes it is best not question ones good fortune.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 26 November 2004 08:23 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 26 November 2004 08:36 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have known several who expressed those sentiments, in younger life, and talked of how it was especially gross it was being ogled by Arab men in buses in Tel Aviv, as opposed to be ogled by any other men. Her and some of the others grew out of such sentiments, as the syndrome expressed in the above article are often fueled by juvenile nationalist romanticism and what is simply incorrect information.

Most of the young fellows I know who in their youth took it as their national duty to join the IDF, detest the occupation and are at least ambivalnet about the whole Zionist project.

I actually know two or three persons whom still profess such opinions, all quite young. However, they rarely venture to speak about them when I am present. Can you explain that?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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Babbler # 7209

posted 26 November 2004 10:36 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by liminal:
You (as Miles or as Addie)

Excuse me. I have made 1 post prior to the one you attacked me for. Did you read any of my other 600 plus posts or just attack me for this one? Do you know something i do not. I am not this Addie. Attack me if you want but do not accuse me of being someone I am not and have never met, talked to or agree with most of the time.

I will not be accused of being a sockpuppet and demaned an apology.

I am not this Addie. If your evidence is that Addie is from Toronto and I am from Vaughan. Yes it is true we are both from the Greater Toronto Area according to our profiles. Ok that solves it since there are only close to 2 million in the GTA.

If you do not like the fact that i might stick up for another babbler. Too Damn Bad. If you do not like what i post. Ignore it. But do not accuse me of being a fuckin sockpuppet.

If you want my life history and why I call myself Miles. Fine. Hell i was just going to PM you instead of posting here but guess what you don;t do that do you? Why scared to back up your allegations?

Since you seem to know so much about me why don;t you pm me and tell me who I am. or PM me and i will tell you.

BTW i am 33 and have been called Miles since I was about 9 that was in 1980. 1980 the year you were born according to your profile.

Either apologize or take your bullshit somewhere else.

[Message edited to add: I am sorry liminal(if that is your real name and not an alias that you use on here while you also use 15-20 other identities) but you are right I am this Addie. I am also Mike Harris, Dalton McGuinty, George Bush2, Ross Perot, Arial Sharon, I used to be Ronald Reagan but am forgetful and any other person on here that you do not like.]

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: miles ]


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 November 2004 11:20 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I dont think Addie and Miles are the same poster. Different styles. Addie is more passive agressive.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 26 November 2004 11:30 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So I decided to read the thing for myself, and it's full of the stupidest tripe ever. It's written by what appears to be a valley girl attempting to sound erudite. I can tell because the stylistic character of the article is at once breathy, superficial, and reasonably grammatically correct with no use of the word "like" as a pause.

Her lazy crap about the surrounding Arabic countries is the same as what the hee-haw pro-Repub crowd in the USA believes, only it's with words longer than four letters.

In short, this isn't "provocative". It's just crap. Shame on you, Macabee. You usually put forth a better pro-Israeli article writer than this one.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 November 2004 12:01 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe there just aren't any good ones, any good writer understands empathy. Once you are empathetic it is impossible to be so one sided. If its not one sided it has no propganda value.

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 27 November 2004 09:25 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To Burchill, I can only say:

July 22, 1946


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 27 November 2004 10:21 AM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
aRoused I would hope that not only Birchillbut also Nadia know about the bombing of the King David.

To Nadia Iwould say that a people's history is both good and bad. But one must study the bad to understand and prepare for the future.

Cueball i would be careful defending me on this thread. Liminal might think you are a sockpuppt as well


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 November 2004 10:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'll defend you too, miles. Well, on this score, anyway.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 27 November 2004 10:37 AM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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Babbler # 5617

posted 27 November 2004 11:36 AM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
How precious!

I hate to debunk your victimization ploy (although I admit, your feigning of rage at my accusation and trying to outsmart me by saying my allegation is based on you as Miles and as Addie having the same geographic coordinates is a bit innovative).

It is amazing how whenever Addie digs himself into a hole, Miles comes to the rescue. In this thread, Addie stated his opinion in response to mine, I responded backing up why I formulated my opinion, Addie, instead of backing up his and trying to debate me, delivered a sermon on what debate is and accused me of bullying, when in fact, had he been interested in debate, he would have explained why he thought Nadia was ignorant. Instead, I get Miles coming in his defense, and throwing allegations of my presumed cyber bullying. The Addie-digging-himself-into-a-hole-and-Miles-rushing-to-his-support is not restricted to this thread.

From previous threads:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=001101&p=

Addie invents an incident where he was present during a PLO shooting in Athens. When Maggot confronted him with how frail his narrative was, him being only 2 at the time, and when his justification couldn’t hold wait, Miles barges in cheerleading for Addie. Maggot noticed this, but retracted her accusation.

Or, here
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=001100&p=
Same scenario. BL Zeebub LLD noticed this, and plonked him.


Or, or, if I had more time, I would do more research into the threads and present further examples.

Not only was it a timed and predictable defense (I was betting when I rebutted Addie that Miles would show up, and guess what?), the styles are identical, the most conspicuous elements being the double spaced sentences and the “i” (most conspicuous, but not the only things. Cueball, even Miles up to this point was passive aggressive).

2-For the record, when someone doesn’t want to receive PMs, it means he/she wants all the debate to remain public, so your accusation of me disabling my PM service because I can’t back up my position is pitiful. Yeah, I am afraid of backing up my position when I want this matter to remain public, when you want to sweep it under the privacy of PMs. Go figure!

3-Speaking of people who should take their shit elsewhere: Miles defended a vehemently racist article which contained garbage like “That’s the Palestinians. That’s where they cut off people ’s hands and stone women to death, because it’s their culture, and that’s what so much of the “civilised” world wants even more of Israel to be sacrificed unto.” Among other bigoted statements, and he has the audacity to preach me about virtue and ethics. I don’t know about other babblers, but I have no respect for people who extol articles with racist overtones. For the record, it wasn’t like he didn’t go to page 2, because he can plead ignorance, but he made his post after I quoted the venomous material, so he knows what jewels the article contains!

In conclusion, “let’s not politicize this any longer”1 , so I will whoosh and PLONK both handle names, Miles and Addie.

1-http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=001101&p=. What a feeble attempt to whitewash a small girl’s death!


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
miles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7209

posted 27 November 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I found this interesting article originally printed inthe Inquirer. This section was emailed to me today.

Makes me wonder what the "real truth" about anything is these days.

quote:
Philadelphia Inquirer staffer Michael Matza seems to have reached just such a point in a dispatch datelined from the Jabaliya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. In an Oct. 6 story titled "In desperation, Palestinians spin tales to rally support," Matza took on a disturbing angle on the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians that is rarely reported in the mainstream press: The Palestinians lie.


In his piece, Matza described an incident in which official and unofficial Palestinian sources claimed to have killed 47 Israeli soldiers in fighting inside Gaza that occurred in the aftermath of Palestinian missile attacks on Israeli territory.


"The rumor spread like wildfire through this war-ravaged refugee camp. Mosque-mounted loudspeakers fanned the flames ... They passed out candy on debris-strewn streets to celebrate," wrote Matza. Then, he added, "In truth, no Israelis died."


Why did the Arabs make such a false claim? According to the Inquirer correspondent, "The rumor that 47 soldiers were killed was a 'lie' some Palestinians propagated to soothe the psychological suffering of their people against a vastly superior foe."


I wonder...could both sides lie at times? Could both sides write one thing but intend something different?

Just something to think about as we all try to find peace as we enter this season of peace.

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: miles ]


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
addie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7186

posted 27 November 2004 06:47 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: addie ]


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 27 November 2004 07:13 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look at you two, tag-teaming each other like a pro wrestling match and thinking y'all have put something over on the rest of us. Give. Up. You're fooling nobody.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 27 November 2004 08:04 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Cueball i would be careful defending me on this thread. Liminal might think you are a sockpuppt as well


No one could ever immitate the level of pedantry that I am capable.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7186

posted 27 November 2004 10:48 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
it has been a slice all. I am just about to pack up the computer for good -- sold it to some idiot for cash I am off to new prospects,new job and new life in Anchorage Alaska.


if you are ever on a cruise ship that docks in the big a. look me up . i will be the one with a leafs hat, good cigar and willing to talk about life in the big city as well as a story of living in Tdot

dr conway never seen a wrestling match before not sure what tag teaming actually is in a written format. but take care.

macabee be true to yourself and your ideas

and liminal if you ever make it up the coast to my neck of the woods look me up -- i like how you cut through the bull shit to say what you think, what you feel and what you know. i am sure i could scrounge up some beer...or at least some home made shine.

and the rest...i hope you sails always catch a good breez

me i'm off to clean air without civilization

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: addie ]


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory64
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7194

posted 28 November 2004 12:27 AM      Profile for majorvictory64     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whew...and people wonder why i stick to posting news links!

Anyway, i think we've discovered the Real Bridget Jones here:

quote:
...her [third] husband Daniel Raven - whom Burchill famously met while dating his sister - will have to make do with some gifts: A bottle of "Lion of Judah" aftershave and an Israel Defense Forces cap.

But her penchant for shocking is clearly still intact when Burchill admits she considered buying him a whole army uniform, but decided against it: "I thought it was wicked because so many Israeli boys have been killed so I thought it wasn't appropriate to use it as a sex aid."



From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 28 November 2004 02:54 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Uhh, okee-dokey. That is a little bit more provocative than the article.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 28 November 2004 04:04 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Another double flounce. Plus ça change, etc....

Anyway, it's been like a barrel of a flock of plovers here for a while.

[ 28 November 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 28 November 2004 07:54 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Speaking of sock puppets, I submit that Burchill's 'Nadia' is a sock puppet.

Both Burchill and Nadia use the expression 'wicked'. No one says wicked anymore. I infer that Burchill either didn't remember this Nadia's own words and inserted her own turn of phrase, or Nadia doesn't even exist and Burchill just created her out of whole cloth to bolster her 'Isn't Israel just *dandy*' tripe.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7209

posted 28 November 2004 09:45 AM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aRoused:
Speaking of sock puppets, I submit that Burchill's 'Nadia' is a sock puppet.

Why doesn't someone --maybe aRoused -- try to email this Naida to find out?

quote:
which led to me and my best friend Nadia Petrovic — the only person I know whose philo-Semitism leaves mine in the shade — boarding an aircraft to Tel Aviv this October

How many Petrovics can there be in Israel

Did anyone else think that it was at least refreshing to have either the reporter or the editor put their bias towards a subject matter at the front of the story?

quote:
Julie Burchill
Unreservedly pro-Israel, our correspondent reveals how her first visit to the country fulfilled a long emotional and political love affair

It would be great if Canadian journalists would wear their bias out in the open like that

[ 28 November 2004: Message edited by: miles ]


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 28 November 2004 10:07 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's an op-ed piece?

It's not a piece of reporting?

There's no striving for evenhandedness in the remit of the piece?

It's a soapbox for Burchill to rave away ad nauseam?

How many Petrovic's can there be in Israel? Or how many can there be in the UK? Or from anywhere else? I'll give you a hint: most Israelis don't 'visit' Israel, they live there.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7209

posted 28 November 2004 10:12 AM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You are right it is an op-ed. But then again not all op-eds portray the bias of the writer. Some leave it up to your imagination. I remember reading an op-ed in a Vancouver paper after the Campbell drunk driving fiasco. THe author stated that he was a media trainer and had coached politicians. BUt never stated whether he had worked for Campbell or not.

The quotes from the Philly paper that I posted earlier. Would you like to have known if their was a bias of the reporter? Or accept it at face value. I believe that the day of "honest reporting" where the reporter just writes the facts without any spin is long gone.

Knowing the bias of a reporter, columnist, op-ed writer would go a long way to understanding the drivel that most write.

I am a Canadian. When i lived in the USA -- I was there for over 6 years -- I was still a Canadian. When I visited friends and family in Canada I was visiting.

aRoused their are many Israelis who live in Canada and the USA. They go back to visit but live elsewhere. The same way that their are South Africans who live in North America and go back to visit.

[ 28 November 2004: Message edited by: miles ]


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 28 November 2004 11:43 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Or you could just have googled 'Nadia Petrovic'.

I'd like to apologize unreservedly to Nadia Petrovic for implying that she was a figment of Burchill's imagination. For I give to you:

The Burchill Interview

quote:
JUSTIN sidles over to the table. “Do you mind us interrupting for photographs?” “No,” says Burchill, “let’s do them now.” She prefers to have her picture taken before lunch, as afterwards she is drunk and grouchy with photographers. “You talk to Nadia. She’ll tell you anything about me.”

They have been friends for six years. Nadia was working for a cleaning firm and was sent round chez Burchill. “I didn’t know who she was,” she says. “She was very strange. She was quite reclusive, almost timid, but there was something dramatic about her. I was fascinated with her, really.” Burchill poached Nadia to clean solely for her, and they have become very close, almost sisters. It is odd, though, an employee paid to clean up her mess also being a friend. The balance of power is clearly in Burchill’s favour, but you might argue that this is just a formalisation of the sort of relationship she has with everyone in her life – ultimately, she is in charge, and whether or not she is actually paying your wages, to be her friend is to be, to some degree, in her service.

Nadia certainly seems aware of this. “Julie has been very honest and said to me that there’s a shelf-life for everything and there’s a shelf-life for friends. I’ve often thought, ‘When’s my time going to come?’”



From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 28 November 2004 02:00 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
wrong button

Carry on........

[ 28 November 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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