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Author Topic: Just can't tell one A-rab from the next...
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 20 November 2004 12:12 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israeli Troops Mistakenly Kill Three Egyptians

quote:
The timing of the incident is especially sensitive because Israel wants Egypt to help secure the Gaza Strip after Israel's planned withdrawal next year from the coastal area.

It's an accident? Or did some wise guy figure he'd screw up the Gaza withdrawal?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 20 November 2004 12:26 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It seems to me that the use of a racial slur in the title of this thread is unecessary and potentially offensive. Yes I understand the context but it is still offensive to perpetuate these stereotypes.

I would hope that the Babbler utilizing this thread title would see fit to edit it.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 20 November 2004 01:16 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who would be offended; and perpetuating what stereotype?
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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Babbler # 5474

posted 20 November 2004 04:47 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well I think its trolling more than anything else but isn't that part of the fun of the ME forum?
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 20 November 2004 08:31 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah. Ironic racism on babble = no-no. Could you edit the thread title please, Cueball? I get your point, but, well...
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 20 November 2004 11:56 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Is it really a no-no? I used the term "frog" the other day and didn't called on it. Frankly, we know Cueball, and his intent certainly isn't racist. And A-rab is mild compared to how over-the-top ironic we could get.

[ 20 November 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 20 November 2004 12:44 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm pretty sure no Arab would be offended by this.

I've heard Arabs use this term to describe or explain racism against Arabs before. It's often directed against those people (some of them read the news on national networks) who use mildly racist pronunciations like "EYE-raqi" and "GEE-had".


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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Babbler # 3790

posted 20 November 2004 01:11 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My friend did a pitch perfect imitation of this sort of person. A-rab, Eye-raq, Sam Hussein, the whole bit. It was hilarious because it was so sad.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 20 November 2004 05:38 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Either we have rules or we dont. It is pretty sad that when someone wants to ensure that a thread not be titled with what some may rightly see as a racist expression, he/she gets labeled as a troll. Babble is sure progressing well.

Rules are for everyone Cue...yes even you.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 20 November 2004 06:46 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are you denying, Macabee, that you among others have lazily asserted that any old Arab country is just fine for the Palestinians, thus implying that it really doesn't matter that they're not all of a piece?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 20 November 2004 06:49 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Either we have rules or we dont. It is pretty sad that when someone wants to ensure that a thread not be titled with what some may rightly see as a racist expression, he/she gets labeled as a troll. Babble is sure progressing well.

That's not what you're doing, Macabee. This is just another one of your baseless accusations of racism to...well, antagonise another poster, I think. Usually you throw around those accusations to shut down debate, so I guess you're progressing well also.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 20 November 2004 07:10 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Are you denying, Macabee, that you among others have lazily asserted that any old Arab country is just fine for the Palestinians, thus implying that it really doesn't matter that they're not all of a piece?

Yes..I never said that. Indeed I have always championed a two-state solution. Perhaps you are thinking of yourself Doc?

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 20 November 2004 07:13 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:

That's not what you're doing, Macabee. This is just another one of your baseless accusations of racism to...well, antagonise another poster, I think. Usually you throw around those accusations to shut down debate, so I guess you're progressing well also.


No actually it is what Im doing. Think what you will of me Heph but I try to be somewhat sensitive when it comes to expressions that could be seen as racist. Im not accusing anyone of racism, Im only suggesting that this thread title, to any casual observer, could read racist. And as Michelle noted its against the rules.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Socrates
sock-puppet
Babbler # 6376

posted 20 November 2004 07:19 PM      Profile for Socrates   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
would you guys consider the screen name (on MSN messenger) of A-Rab (by a zionist who is fervently pro-israel and whose name this handle is a "clever" abbreviation of) to be racist?

Just wondering cuz I saw it and it really pissed me off but I was wondering if others saw it as racist?

thanks folks.


From: Viva Sandinismo! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
exiled armadillo
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Babbler # 6389

posted 20 November 2004 07:19 PM      Profile for exiled armadillo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No actually it is what Im doing. Think what you will of me Heph

Who are you talking to? Hephaestion hasn't even posted on this thread.


From: Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and for the same reason | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 20 November 2004 07:44 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by exiled armadillo:

Who are you talking to? Hephaestion hasn't even posted on this thread.


Quite right...apologies I was referring to Hinterland. Yes yes Im going to get my glasses checked next week.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 20 November 2004 07:44 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Socrates:
would you guys consider the screen name (on MSN messenger) of A-Rab (by a zionist who is fervently pro-israel and whose name this handle is a "clever" abbreviation of) to be racist?

Just wondering cuz I saw it and it really pissed me off but I was wondering if others saw it as racist?

thanks folks.


Yes

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 20 November 2004 08:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Yes..I never said that. Indeed I have always championed a two-state solution. Perhaps you are thinking of yourself Doc?

Oh, you mean you have never insisted that any old Arab country could take the Palestinians in a flash and "assimilate" them because gosh golly gee, they're just alllllllllllll Arabs anyway?

I have never made that lazy assertion and your pathetic attempt to turn it back on me is laughable.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 20 November 2004 08:19 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
would you guys consider the screen name (on MSN messenger) of A-Rab (by a zionist who is fervently pro-israel and whose name this handle is a "clever" abbreviation of) to be racist?

Sure.

We had a Zionist babbler for a while who called himself "Khadijah", which is the name of the wife of the Prophet Mohammed. His intent was clearly racist, and nobody, least of all Macabee or Mishei or whatever he called himself at the time, raised a peep about it.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 21 November 2004 10:16 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

Oh, you mean you have never insisted that any old Arab country could take the Palestinians in a flash and "assimilate" them because gosh golly gee, they're just alllllllllllll Arabs anyway?

I have never made that lazy assertion and your pathetic attempt to turn it back on me is laughable.


Consider it what you will but you have to understand how shocked I was that you would lie about me without compunction. Unless you can prove to this board that I have indeed "...insisted that any old Arab country could take the Palestinians in a flash and "assimilate" them because gosh golly gee, they're just alllllllllllll Arabs anyway", I must demand an unequivocal apology. It is a serious breach of Babble policy.

I await your proof, if not I await your apology.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 21 November 2004 12:24 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishmac was unapologetically silent over "Khadija's" handle. He didn't speak up about "Badhaddad" either.

And sorry, Doc, I don't recall him ever using the words, "gosh, golly gee" in a sentence.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 21 November 2004 12:32 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
This is just another in a series of incidents were Macabee feels he has either the right or some assigned responsibility of controlling what is discussed in these forums. It is a pattern of behaviour that he has established over a long period of time, and for those of us who've been here a while, it is as irritating as it is banal. But I think it behooves some of us to point out to newer posters that that's pretty much all Macabee ever does. Turns these discussions into flame wars where nothing ends up getting discussed.

...which is what he wants. But it is anti-intellectual, anti-social, and an obstacle to real dialogue. It is in fact, immoral.

[ 21 November 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7028

posted 21 November 2004 01:06 PM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I dont see what the deal is, some people pronouce it a-rab

PEIslanders say things like Warshroom, alot of people say Newfaland or even Newfinland. There are no great calls when someone says 'Mareickan or spell Kanadian with a K.

Really, I dont see this as an issue.


From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 21 November 2004 01:08 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But it is anti-intellectual, anti-social, and an obstacle to real dialogue.

Kinda like trolling, huh?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 21 November 2004 01:17 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I wouldn't characterise Macabee as a troll, although some of his rhetoric is baiting and quite often irrelevant, so I don't think it does anything for real dialogue. I also wouldn't even suggest Macabee is a troll because...*sigh*...I know where that's going.

Other posters' rhetoric can also be baiting and irrelevant, but you have to decide if you will take the bait, or drop it and move on.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 21 November 2004 03:06 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Consider it what you will but you have to understand how shocked I was that you would lie about me without compunction. Unless you can prove to this board that I have indeed "...insisted that any old Arab country could take the Palestinians in a flash and "assimilate" them because gosh golly gee, they're just alllllllllllll Arabs anyway", I must demand an unequivocal apology. It is a serious breach of Babble policy.

I await your proof, if not I await your apology.


You've refused to ever apologize to me for tar-brushing me as an anti-Semite, so I see absolutely no reason why I should extend you any courtesy whatsoever even if my memory was inexact.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 21 November 2004 06:33 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"The pigs' apology doesn't quench our rage."

quote:
Independent and opposition newspapers in Egypt ran editorials Friday that scorned Israel's bid to make amends. Pro-government papers carried interviews with relatives and friends of the three young policemen who were killed.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 21 November 2004 06:39 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Since I'm in a mood, I've decided to actually make an issue of Macabee's confusion between me and Heph. Even though he apologised over it (no problem, Mac), I think it's..."telling".

We all sound alike to you, don't we, Mac?


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 21 November 2004 10:23 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
This is just another in a series of incidents were Macabee feels he has either the right or some assigned responsibility of controlling what is discussed in these forums. It is a pattern of behaviour that he has established over a long period of time, and for those of us who've been here a while, it is as irritating as it is banal. But I think it behooves some of us to point out to newer posters that that's pretty much all Macabee ever does. Turns these discussions into flame wars where nothing ends up getting discussed.

...which is what he wants. But it is anti-intellectual, anti-social, and an obstacle to real dialogue. It is in fact, immoral.

[ 21 November 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


What tidy nonsense . Is this your excuse for what is clearly a racist thread title? Attack the messenger if you will, the title remains racist on a progessive leftist board. And all you can do hinter is attack me. Talk about being in the forest and not seeing the trees


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 21 November 2004 10:25 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

You've refused to ever apologize to me for tar-brushing me as an anti-Semite, so I see absolutely no reason why I should extend you any courtesy whatsoever even if my memory was inexact.


Inexact???? Funny. Most people would call it lying.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 21 November 2004 10:26 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Since I'm in a mood, I've decided to actually make an issue of Macabee's confusion between me and Heph. Even though he apologised over it (no problem, Mac), I think it's..."telling".

We all sound alike to you, don't we, Mac?


Only those whose names start with an "H"


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3790

posted 21 November 2004 10:29 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I dont see what the deal is, some people pronouce it a-rab

Because it isn't a local language quirk. It's a deliberate mispronounciation to "Americanize" the term. As I've understood it, the "Ay" for "Ah" replacement in "Arab" and "Eye" for "Ir" in Iraq are likely found in southern dialects.

It's a cultural imperialism concept. Not a dialectical difference one.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 21 November 2004 11:28 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Only those whose names start with an "H"

Faggots whose names start with "H.' Isn't that what you meant?
I know, we all look alike to you. By the way, I hope you'll visit me when they stick a pink triangle on my chest and ship me off. Let's just hope Bergen-Belsen has cable.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 21 November 2004 11:44 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think you mean the Aleutian Islands.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 21 November 2004 11:53 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Is that where they're planning to ship us off? The Aleutians? Oh, well, it doesn't matter to me, and long as they don't gas us with Zyklon B and burn our bodies in crematoria.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 22 November 2004 12:03 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh pshaw! Don't you know that the halocaust is nothing more than an international zionist conspiracy designed to allow the facist American empire to exert international control over Palestinian oil?

I mean really!! If you didn't know that then what are they teaching in GTA schools these days? Tolerance? HA!

They can all tolerate this!


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 22 November 2004 12:07 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, in all honesty, I would suspect the Aleutian Islands to be the next site for the United States Gulag now that Guantanamo is getting too much bad press. The Bergen-Belsen thing was unnecessary, IMHO.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 22 November 2004 12:16 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
The Bergen-Belsen thing was unnecessary, IMHO.

Yeah. They killed most of the fags at Dachau.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 22 November 2004 12:20 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
What?..Bergen-Belsen was unecessary, or the refence to Bergen-Belsen was unecessary? No matter. I don't really care, Conway.

I think from now on, when anyone mentions the Holocaust, I'll mention the murder of hundreds of thousands of gay people.

It's only fair.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 22 November 2004 12:23 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Inexact???? Funny. Most people would call it lying.

You're a riot.

You've prevaricated, flip-flopped and in general dug in and refused to simply apologize for out and out smears such as calling people "demonic", and you have the nerve to act all put upon when someone does it to you.

Maybe you should have more of a care next time you start throwing your tar brush around.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 22 November 2004 12:30 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm still wondering who is supposedly being slurred by the term "A-rab" as it is used in the thread title, as it is unlikely that an Arab would take offence.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 22 November 2004 12:46 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I'm still wondering who is supposedly being slurred by the term "A-rab" as it is used in the thread title, as it is unlikely that an Arab would take offence.

No one is. We're all supposed to get sidetracked discussing that, rather than whatever the thread topic is, which some people don't want to discuss. That's the whole purpose of a red herring.

And here we are, doing it, so it works, eh?


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 22 November 2004 12:56 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good point.
quote:
The Israeli army said its soldiers identified three Palestinian militants planting a bomb in the area. The outpost ordered troops in a tank to fire at the militants, but they mistakenly fired on the Egyptian policemen, who happened to be in the area at the time, the army said.

What the hell were the Israelis doing shooting a tank round into Egypt?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 22 November 2004 01:20 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Clearly, like the USA, they have no respect for national sovereignty.

Except when it comes to Israel's borders.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 22 November 2004 09:02 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:

Faggots whose names start with "H.' Isn't that what you meant?
I know, we all look alike to you. By the way, I hope you'll visit me when they stick a pink triangle on my chest and ship me off. Let's just hope Bergen-Belsen has cable.


This is pretty dim-witted of you. I have NEVER maligned Gays or Lesbians quite the opposite. And for you to suggest I do is an outrage. Unless you can prove I have EVER done such a thing I believe you owe me and this board an apology.

We may differ on many things Hinter but on Gay rights I have always been a solid supporter. I await your proof otherwise. I also await your apology.

[ 22 November 2004: Message edited by: Macabee ]


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 November 2004 09:07 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I'm still wondering who is supposedly being slurred by the term "A-rab" as it is used in the thread title, as it is unlikely that an Arab would take offence.

Sigh. The thread title is saying that you can't tell one Arab from another.

I GET IT that it's supposed to be sarcastic. But there have been countless times before this when Audra has shut down ironic racism because IT'S NOT ALLOWED. It makes some people feel uncomfortable. Yeah, I think Macabee's taking advantage, but he's right in that it's not supposed to be done on babble. And it wasn't just Macabee who "sidetracked" the discussion. After I mentioned that the thread title should be changed, what COULD have happened was that the person who wrote the thread title could have RECOGNIZED that I was being consistent with Audra's policy on ironic racism, and all those who jumped to the defence of the thread title could have refrained, thus no sidetracking. But that didn't happen.

And so, since this thread isn't going to be about what it's supposed to be about since everyone's still having a meta-argument about whether or not ironic racism is okay on babble and what Macabee's motivation was for mentioning it, I'm closing the thread.

[ 22 November 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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