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Author Topic: US Marine shoots wounded Iraqi prisoner in the head
Doug
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posted 15 November 2004 11:56 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And he was dumb enough - or didn't care enough - to do it on camera

Great stuff, guys.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
JBG
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Babbler # 5659

posted 16 November 2004 02:04 AM      Profile for JBG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's sick that you would revel in an apparent crime by a US Serviceman in order to make a political point. How many people did Saddam feed into shredders?
From: Harrison, New York | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 16 November 2004 02:11 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who's revelling? Shit like this needs to be told.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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Babbler # 5594

posted 16 November 2004 03:11 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JBG:
It's sick that you would revel in an apparent crime by a US Serviceman in order to make a political point. How many people did Saddam feed into shredders?


Ya, and don't forget the story about Saddam gassing the Kurd's. It ranks up there with Bush I regime's story about nurse "Nayirah."


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 16 November 2004 06:11 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It's sick that you would revel in an apparent crime by a US Serviceman in order to make a political point. How many people did Saddam feed into shredders?

At what point did they come over to your house, open up the back of your head, take out your brain and insert that sticky grey thing in there.

The politcal point dude, is that this is war. This is why war is to prevented, not actively pursued. This is the kind of sick shit that was completely predictable.

Lo! And you fucking Americans went around saying you were so fucking god damn morally superior. See, we know that you are not. Some of your boys are just as bad and sick as the lowest Al Queda thugs.

War is not about law, or morality. It is about the absence of law and morality.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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Babbler # 5062

posted 16 November 2004 06:22 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
There doesn't seem to have been a people shredding machine. Story in "The Guardian" .

And 'not being as bad as Saddam/Stalin/Mao/Hitler/select mass-murdering maniac' seems to me to be setting the bar for US behaviour a trifle low.

Sometimes though, i wish i was an American. Then i could kill anybody i wanted to and defend myself from criticism by charging 'anti-Americanism' or saying people were just trying to 'score political points'!


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 November 2004 06:26 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
By the way, sucker sychophant JBG, the reason he shot this dude for TV is probably because he wanted the people back home to know exactly what war is. The message is for you, internet soldier.

"March on, join bravely, let us to it pell-mell,
if not to heaven, then hand in hand to hell."

Richard III

There is more truth in Shakespeare's two lines than all 83 of your posts.

Suck on this too...

quote:
The executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring war.

– James Madison

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 November 2004 07:02 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
“The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honor. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows. It is a disgrace to our imperial record and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure. We are today not far from a disaster. Our unfortunate troops, Indian and British, under hard conditions of climate and supply are policing an immense area, paying dearly every day in lives for the willfully wrong policy of the civil administration in Baghdad but the responsibility, in this case, is not on the army which has acted only upon the request of the civil authorities.”


T.E. Lawrence reporting from Falujah in 1920.

A history lesson about the town we are currently destroying.

This reporter, describes you to a 'T' JBG:

quote:
...to the outrage of the Bush administration and its supporters, who are committed to what I would call a fact-free, faith-based approach to Middle East policymaking.

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
JBG
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posted 16 November 2004 09:35 AM      Profile for JBG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball correctly says that "some soldiers" are as bad as the "lowlist Quaeda thugs". That does not, by a long shot, mean all soldiers.

I'm not saying the effort's perfect, and genearlly speaking I'm a lover of peace. I am thoroughly convinced this war effort was necessary. If this soldier did what he was said to have done, he deserves execution, in as terrifying a way as he inflicted on someone who could not defend himself. That is sick. Downright evil.


From: Harrison, New York | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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Babbler # 5062

posted 16 November 2004 09:52 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm not saying the effort's perfect, and genearlly speaking I'm a lover of peace. I am thoroughly convinced this war effort was necessary.

Well, most people here would be a little harsher than saying that bush jr.'s war is not "perfect."

Truth be told, I'm boggled as to why you think this war was necessary.

Saddam Hussein, with or without WMDs, was never a threat to the US, which is a superpower.

The claims about Saddam's WMDs were lies. That's in: L-I-E-S ("We know he has them, and we know where they are.") Out-and-out lies.

The connections to Al Qaeda: fraudulent.

The claims to desire to bring democracy to Iraq: lies. The US occupation is treating the people of Iraq like garbage. It has allowed security to go to hell. It has lost or stolen 20 billion dollars in Iraqi oil dollars (according to Christian Aid), it has allowed Cheney's Halliburton to criminally enrich itself. The invasion has cost the lives of one-third the number of Americans as were killed on 9-11. (More might die prematurely in NYC from the toxic fallout of the WTC crash, but that might also be the fate of US troops/chumps exposed to depleted uranium radiation.)

In the end, the bush jr. regime might very well cut and run, perhaps allowing Iraq to descend into civil war or a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. (Perhaps the Iraqi people have more abilities than we give them credit for, but civil war or theocracy are possibilities, and the moronic bush jr. regime ought to have accepted this contingency before they invaded the place.)

In short, I see no merit to your stance on this war.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 16 November 2004 09:56 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JBG:
I am thoroughly convinced this war effort was necessary.

If a person was a complete moron, unable to think for themselves, and unwilling to do even the most basic of critical thought or research, I could then understand how they MIGHT have been fooled into accepting the necessity of attacking Iraq in the beginning . . . it is more than clear now that the war was completely unnecessary . . . no WMDs were secured, no imminent attack was foiled, no Iraqi lives were saved (100,000(?) over 10 years, vs 100,000 in just 1 year,) no democracy has been established nor is one likely to be established that won't immediatly fall to a civil war . . . even the main objective, the liberaltion of Iraqi oil and natural resources to their rightful owners, American corporations, has failed (well except that the American people's tax dollars have been "liberated" into the pockets of Haliburton and friends.)

"Faith based" assholes are the enemy, not some poor Iraqi who takes up arms to fight a foriegn invader.

edited to add: honest, I never read thwap's post being I created mine . . . although I obviously was on the same train of though (hardly amazing given that the evidence needed to refute ignorance in this case is pretty well documented and well known to everyone who doesn't have their head up their ass, or are willfull ignorant wannabe murders who's only regret is that they are not over in Iraq killing morally inferior brown people.)

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: No Yards ]


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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Babbler # 2938

posted 16 November 2004 10:01 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JBG:
It's sick that you would revel in an apparent crime by a US Serviceman in order to make a political point. How many people did Saddam feed into shredders?

Yes, let's stand mute. Criticsm is verboten. And making a political point? Dear me. What is the world coming to when someone dares to make a political point? And yes, I agree, Saddam's crimes justifies any crimes committed by U.S. troops, including the crime of violating international law by invading Iraq. http://tinyurl.com/5geq9 So, it's open season, guys! Happy hunting!


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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Babbler # 4014

posted 16 November 2004 11:24 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm not saying the effort's perfect, and genearlly speaking I'm a lover of peace. I am thoroughly convinced this war effort was necessary. If this soldier did what he was said to have done, he deserves execution, in as terrifying a way as he inflicted on someone who could not defend himself. That is sick. Downright evil

The inconsistency, hypocrisy, stupidity and aggressive blood-lust implicit in this comment is shocking. You're a sick man, JBG.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 16 November 2004 12:10 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I can certainly see this becoming one of those key moments in the conflict. Here we hacve a U.S. soldier shooting an unarmed, wounded man in a mosque of all places (a mosque that had already been badly damaged by fighting with occupation forces): this just has "Crusades" written all over it. Somewhere, Osama bin Laden is smiling.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 16 November 2004 12:17 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In Canada when our airborne unit tortured and murdered an innocent civillian the government stepped in and came down hard on the lowest levels of the chain of command. I know that in the USofA they will not disband an entire unit. But could their be disciplenary action like what we saw in Canada?
From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 16 November 2004 12:23 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm reminded of the section in James Jones' "The Thin Red Line" where the soldiers invade the village, and finally come face to face with the people they've been fighting, who've killed their fellow soldiers, who've led them to fear for their own lives, and who they've dehumanized, and been fed horror stories by other soldiers and their commanders of the evils that they have inflicted on their fellow Americans. There is a furious, xenophobic, fearful massacre, and subsequent horrific treatment of the POWs, part in retaliation, in part because they could get away with it, in part because those sickened by it were too a part of the homosocial network to stop what was happening.

That soldier didn't act in a vacuum - it was an individual act that fits the context of the miltary. This is war, part of the ways that armies train and motivate, and turn the people we love into soldiers capable of killing, sometime even people who enjoy killing or can't stop when they should. I'm not surprised it happened. I'm surprised that people don't expect this, from both sides.

Read the Thin Red Line, watch Full Metal Jacket. War is horror. We now have access to the horror via CNN (sometimes).


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
exiled armadillo
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posted 16 November 2004 01:34 PM      Profile for exiled armadillo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Josh, your link requires a membership but I'd love to read the first one "should canada indict Bush". could you please pm it to me? pretty please!
From: Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and for the same reason | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 16 November 2004 01:43 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
exilled, check out rabble's front page www.rabble.ca the "Should Canada indict Bush" by Thomas Walkom is available there.
From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
exiled armadillo
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posted 16 November 2004 01:54 PM      Profile for exiled armadillo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks,
From: Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and for the same reason | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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Babbler # 195

posted 16 November 2004 03:23 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyone else find it interesting that we find out Margaret Hassan has been murdered just as this other story about the US soldier was starting to get circulation?

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 November 2004 03:39 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In what struck me as a somewhat confusing report in this a.m.'s Grope and Flail, it seemed that there had in fact been more than one already wounded Iraqi shot deliberately, and more than one U.S. marine shooting, although the film captures only the one. Did anyone else get that impression?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DownTheRoad
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posted 16 November 2004 03:47 PM      Profile for DownTheRoad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It was reported on the radio this morning (NPR I think) that a soldier was charged with homicide by the military following a similar but separate incident. I haven't been able to find any details.
From: land of cotton | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 November 2004 05:36 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm not saying the effort's perfect, and genearlly speaking I'm a lover of peace. I am thoroughly convinced this war effort was necessary. If this soldier did what he was said to have done, he deserves execution, in as terrifying a way as he inflicted on someone who could not defend himself. That is sick. Downright evil.

If one of your definitions of 'downright evil' is inflicting capital harm against someone who could not defend themsleves, then the whole invasion is obviously downright evil.

The difference between you and I sucker-sychophant, is that I do not believe this Marine should die for his crime. He should be tried and put away, along with the people who sent him there.

One of the things that is apparent is that the soldier who committed the crime is a war casualty. He was shot in the face. He was angry. He is very likley disillusioned by the huge contrast between the braying of the war camp about higher ideals, democracy and the reality of what they are actually doing on a daily baisis in Iraq. Very much he sounds like he has PTSD -- read "Achilles in Vietnam -- Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character" He is also a victim of this ridiculous fiasco. Don't try and pin all the blame on him.

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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