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Author Topic: Yasser Arafats health
Biger Willy
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posted 27 October 2004 07:04 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yasser Arafats health seems to be slipping. More @
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Mideast_Conflict

All I can say is that I could repeat many of the things you all said when the late great Ronald Reagan died. Only difference is that this guy truly is evil.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 October 2004 07:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think that this is in the wrong section.

I ask you to use evidence to establish how it is that Arafat can be described as 'evil.' All I know it that he won an nobel peace prize with Peres, and Rabin. The latter gunned down by the Israel right.

Incidentally, did you see that some people in the Israeli right have been writing grafitti around saying: "We got Rabin, we will get Sharon." Even the Israeli right doesn't seem to mind taking responsibility for the assassination, contrary to the lone gunman theory.

[ 27 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 27 October 2004 07:15 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
DRIFTING!!!

I am not going to justify you request for evidence that Arafat is an evil man. He is, you know it, Big Willy knows it, and they world knows it.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
f1 dad
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posted 27 October 2004 07:27 PM      Profile for f1 dad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Isn't referring to oneself in the third person a bannable offense here?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 October 2004 07:40 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bob Dole thinks not.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 27 October 2004 08:24 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The name Biger Willy is already in the third person
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 27 October 2004 08:33 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The BBC has some interesting information on Israeli contingency plans:

quote:

Israel should brace itself for violence and refuse Yasser Arafat's burial in Jerusalem when he dies, according to a reported government contingency plan.

Beeb link.


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 27 October 2004 09:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mustafa Barghouti for president!
Arafat may not be intrinsically evil, but I wouldn't like to see him govern an independent Palestine. Is he really only 75? I thought he was closer to 80.

[ 27 October 2004: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 27 October 2004 09:24 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biger Willy:
DRIFTING!!!

I am not going to justify you request for evidence that Arafat is an evil man. He is, you know it, Big Willy knows it, and they world knows it.



Oh, God that's funny. Drifting: disagreeing with Biger Willy. Too funny!

Point of fact, I happen to oppose Arafat and think he has done more harm than good to his people (though not for the same reasons as Biger, I'm sure). Dr. Barghouti for PM, indeed.

And by the way: I'm still happy Reagan's dead.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 27 October 2004 09:56 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
*thread drift*

Tell me Big Will, if the Israelis can make peace with the Fascist tortures of Egypt and cuddle up to the authoritarian régime of King Hussein, why can't they make peace with somebody like Yasser Arafat? Oh and while you're about it, you can tell me where they get off snubbing the Palestinian Authority when various Israeli governments had dealings with apartheid South Africa.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 27 October 2004 10:58 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israel has worked with other, non-desirable governments because of a need to defend its self. The Jewish state tired to work with the PLO but was slapped in the face after giving land for peace when Arafat called for attacks on Israel.

Interestingly since the US and the willing took out Saddam attacks in Israel has gone down. Seems like justification for the war to me.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 27 October 2004 11:05 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
And the boil on my arse cleared up as well. You're right, the war was a killer idea.

Let's have more of them.

[ 27 October 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 27 October 2004 11:08 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I never said that, stop spinning spinner. War is needed in some cases, but always the last choice. People like you probably would have been against going in to Europe during WWII.
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 27 October 2004 11:19 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
And people like you are dumb.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 28 October 2004 12:14 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay you are far from the truth on this one, just weeks back Israel had attacks in cities/areas where they have not had any for years and years.

Do you just make stuff up in your mind and say that works for me, cause you sure are not on base with this premise?


quote:
Originally posted by Biger Willy:
Interestingly since the US and the willing took out Saddam attacks in Israel has gone down. Seems like justification for the war to me.

From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 28 October 2004 12:17 AM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thats the best you got?
Go sell bs somewhere else, we are all stocked up here.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Biger Willy ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 October 2004 01:45 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Try a laxative, Biger.

If Arafat dies, who will Israel invent as a comic book villain to oppose?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 03:08 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I am not going to justify you request for evidence that Arafat is an evil man. He is, you know it, Big Willy knows it, and they world knows it.


Excelent, I guess that establishes how credible you are. Not very. Sit there in your myopic haze if you want, but the world generally supports Arafat against Sharon, and the world also nominated him for the Nobel Prize, so shove it, unless you want to present some earthshaking new evidence, now is the time. I probably know more of it than you.

Why? Because I bother to back my assertions up. Arafat is a Nobel Peace Prize winner, prove to me that is not so?

Marawan Barghouti for President!


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 03:11 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Interestingly since the US and the willing took out Saddam attacks in Israel has gone down. Seems like justification for the war to me.


Exactly true.

Why? Because all the young Hamas recruits head straight to Iraq. Why bother with fences and checkpoints, Iraq is as secure as the Texas in 1898. They's rather target Uncle Sam, the supplier of Israel's Apache Helicopter, and massive aid. How naive you are.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 08:15 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's a shame that this thread was begun in baiting spirit.

The last CBC live report said that Arafat is about to be moved to a hospital in Ramallah. A spokesperson has said that he is dying.

The CBC website has not yet been updated to reflect that change.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 28 October 2004 08:17 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by f1 dad:
Isn't referring to oneself in the third person a bannable offense here?
Not at all pioneering Babble member Skdadl does it often. So feel free. Excuse thread drift.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 28 October 2004 08:21 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If Arafat does die, how many minutes do you suppose will pass before Paul Wolfowitz in on the phone to APAC telling them 'confidentially' that the CIA poisoned his Perrier?
From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 28 October 2004 08:34 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What is "APAC"
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 28 October 2004 08:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I hate to move this to the Middle East forum, but I guess I have to.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 09:03 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here is the very slightly updated CBC report.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 28 October 2004 09:48 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes... Arafat has a checkered past and a corrupted government, just like his counterparts Begin and Perez. However.... in no way he is as evil as his occupiers who refuse to negotiate a just peace and nothing less then complete withdrawl from the territories. Is this to much to ask? He stood for his people, just like the murderers in the Knesset.
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 10:44 AM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
interesting how a thread on Arafat, his health, and possible successors moves onto a discussion of who is more evil.

as long as we all Palestinians and Israelis live in the past their is no hope for the future.

both sides have blood on their hands. Both sides are equally to blame. trying to finger one as more evil than the other is a waste of time.

the truth of the matter is that while i belive that the majority of the populations of both sides want peace they are scared to move towards it.

they have been living too long on the hatred of the other. and may be unsure of how to live in peace with their neighbours.

as an aside. is it not interesting to note that most of the major peace accords signed and accepted in Israel have been launched by the Likud up to and including tuesdays vote on the settlements. I guess the right wing in Israel can do something right


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 02:13 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Arafat is to be transferred to a hospital in Paris.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 28 October 2004 02:35 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
is it not interesting to note that most of the major peace accords signed and accepted in Israel have been launched by the Likud

Uhm, Tuesday's vote was not a peace accord and maybe you missed the formaldahyde statement ... And one would assume if any peace accord had been accepted there would be peace.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 28 October 2004 02:38 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by addie:
interesting how a thread on Arafat, his health, and possible successors moves onto a discussion of who is more evil.
I think that little big willy opened the thread that way
quote:
Only difference is that this guy truly is evil.
I would also wait on praising the Likudniks, because this withdrawl means nothing for the Palestinians. They will still be militarily occupied, confined and curfewed. None of this is to the benefit of Palestinians.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 02:57 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:
I would also wait on praising the Likudniks, because this withdrawl means nothing for the Palestinians. They will still be militarily occupied, confined and curfewed. None of this is to the benefit of Palestinians.

Bp you may be right...then again what if the vote is the start of something. i guess i am an optimist that i will see peace in the middle east. where friends that i have met on both sides of the "border -- Israeli and Palestinian" can walk together

ok now i feel like i should be singing and smoking

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: addie ]


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 28 October 2004 04:24 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Mideast_Conflict

Up date

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Biger Willy ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 04:28 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Willy, I will do this once politely. And then, if you don't respond intelligently, I will do it more heatedly, and I will also notify the moderator.

This is supposed to be a news thread. What you just posted does not belong here. Please stop interrupting the discussion of a major news event with, ah, games.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 04:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
both sides have blood on their hands. Both sides are equally to blame. trying to finger one as more evil than the other is a waste of time.


A much more accurate assesment than Bigger Willy's offering.

quote:
as an aside. is it not interesting to note that most of the major peace accords signed and accepted in Israel have been launched by the Likud up to and including tuesdays vote on the settlements. I guess the right wing in Israel can do something right


Inaccurate, Oslo was initiated and signed by the ILP and Fetah. The Gaza withdrawal is not an accord. There has been no negotiation with Palestinians parties in regard to the Gaza withdrawal, it is a unilateral move.

It is a thinly disguised effort to exchange land in Gaza for more land in the West Bank. The intent is to give up mostly symbolic and expensive settelments for control over the vital water supply and farming territory in the West Bank. Gaza can be locked down as a concentration camp, guarded on all sides by the IDF.

This article from Ha'aretz should interest you. Minister Ariel Sharon's senior advisor, Dov Weisglass, had this to say:

quote:
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Weisglass, one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, said in an interview for the Haaretz Friday Magazine.

[my emphasis]

More resources and discussion about this can be found here on this Babble thread: Game, Set, Match

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 28 October 2004 04:45 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biger Willy:
http://www.smalltime.com/dictator.html

Up date


sorry i pasted the worng url. Here is the one i thoguht i posted http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Mideast_Conflict


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
aa
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posted 28 October 2004 04:47 PM      Profile for aa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is very tragic. Send your condolences to Ariel Sharon, who is now left without a "partner who is not a partner". What is Sharon to do when Arafat dies? Well, as any sensible person knows, you can't, unfortunatly, negotuiate with a dead man.
From: montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 28 October 2004 04:48 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, you construct a new straw one.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 04:48 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
cueball i could be wrong. lord knows it has happened b4. but was Oslo not a continuation of the groundbreaking work at Madrid. Madrid was started by Shamir. THen the change in government occured, labour was the government and Olso was finished by ILP.
From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 28 October 2004 04:50 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps it will be like the ending of Dangerous Liasons, where Glenn Close realizes that by ending his own life, John Malkovitch has robbed her of her ability to get even with him and must bear out her shame alone.

I don't wish any ill on Yasser, but should he go soon he may take some comfort in knowing that yes, he'll be taking a little of Ariel with him.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 28 October 2004 04:53 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just a little? Too bad. They could spend eternity in hell together.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 04:54 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's actually not such a bad reading of Les Liaisons dangereuses, Mr Magoo. Not complete, but not bad.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 October 2004 04:57 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't believe in Hell, but if I did, I wouldn't think that Yasser was going there.

The logic of his life was set very early. He has become the symbol of a people. That is always deserving of respect, especially at the end -- and if he is agreeing to go to either Jordan or Paris, then this is near the end.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 28 October 2004 05:00 PM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
[QB]I don't believe in Hell, but if I did, I wouldn't think that Yasser was going there.
QB]


Nor do I, but if there was a hell (which I hope there is) it is made for killers like Arafat and Osama.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 05:07 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
cueball i could be wrong. lord knows it has happened b4. but was Oslo not a continuation of the groundbreaking work at Madrid. Madrid was started by Shamir. THen the change in government occured, labour was the government and Olso was finished by ILP.

Sorry you are right. It has been a while. The main point I was making was in regard to the Gaza withdrawal, which is happening now.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 28 October 2004 05:07 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Adam Yoshida has been gloating and chortling over the prospect of Arafat's imminent dispatch to Hell, similar to how he has consigned Rachel Corrie's soul to Hell as well. There is nothing more revelatory about how wingnuts work than their unrelenting wish for pain and suffering on others.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 28 October 2004 05:09 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Nor do I, but if there was a hell (which I hope there is) it is made for killers like Arafat and Osama.

And Bush, Sharon and useful idiots like you.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 28 October 2004 07:15 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Mustafa Barghouti for president!

No not another terrorist.

Abu Mazen or Yasser Abed Rabbo for Prez.

Right now it seemes Like Abu Mazen is the more likely of 2 in case I think these are the best choices if they come to power Israel will have to negotiate. It won't be able to take the stance and say there is no partner for peace this is much better for all Palestinians and Israelis. I'll truly be a happy person if this happens. I also hope the Israeli's force Sharon to resign because they will no that he is not appropriate to deal with those leaders.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 07:22 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
the interesting issue in all of this is going to be how the PLO and Hamas act in the next while. will it turn into a "civil war", a power struggle, or will a natural leader appear and unite.

only time will tell


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 07:28 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes I think this will result in the seperation of Gaza and the West Bank as a unified political entity. A successful culmination of 30 years of Israel's devide and conquer strategy, as first envisioned by Menachem Begin when he allowed the Muslim Brotherhood under Sheik Ahmed Yassin to set up shop in Gaza, as a competing politcal force to the secular PLO.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 07:31 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
very true the same way black september was originally at war with Jordan after Hussein the king of the hashimite kingdom of jordan murdered thousands of palestinians
From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 28 October 2004 07:36 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by addie:
very true the same way black september was originally at war with Jordan after Hussein the king of the hashimite kingdom of jordan murdered thousands of palestinians
I don't think you should politicize this. Those Palestinians died, and it is sad. I'm sad they died. I'm sad you would seek to politicize something as sad as that. Doesn't it make you sad? You say they were murdered. Excuse me, in order to be murdered I think you have to die. So the point is they died, and that's sad.

Get the fucking point yet?


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
addie
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posted 28 October 2004 07:42 PM      Profile for addie        Edit/Delete Post
coyote is everything so simple for you...it is either black or white, good or evil?

why can you not accept the simple fact that it is time to move on.

if peace is a viable solution we must work together towards it. both sides, both groups at the same time.

if peace is not vialble...then hell....give me a grenade and a gun


From: anchorage alaska as of 11/29/04 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 28 October 2004 07:47 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have said nothing that would warrant that response. You are being obtuse. Did you even blink when you used the word murder in this thread that you condemned being used in the other?
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 28 October 2004 08:36 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No not another terrorist.

No, not Marwan Barghouti. Mustafa Barghouti. Marwan is the terrorist/freedom fighter.
Mustafa is a respected pacifist, peace activist and intellectual.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 28 October 2004 08:44 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

No, not Marwan Barghouti. Mustafa Barghouti. Marwan is the terrorist/freedom fighter.
Mustafa is a respected pacifist, peace activist and intellectual.


Much of the time the distinction is all in how you tilt your head.


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 08:49 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I was the Marawan Barghouti guy.

Yes CMOT is right, Marwan Barghouti is the jailed Tanzim leader, illegally held in an Israeli jail,
Mustafa is the sell out appeaser and pseudo-intellectual who will only bring about further suffering to both sides by caving in, again and again just like Arafat at Oslo.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 28 October 2004 09:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey! *dope slaps Cue* Stop that!
Do you have another candidate whose more qualified to run an independent Palestinian state?

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:12 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Mustafa is the sell out appeaser and pseudo-intellectual who will only bring about further suffering to both sides by caving in, again and again just like Arafat at Oslo.

funny they said the same about rabin being a sell out.

could the new leader if their is a need for one be someone off the radar? a unifier but someone who is respected by the people?

does that person exist?


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 28 October 2004 09:20 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think cue was joking.
quote:
funny they said the same about rabin being a sell out.

From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 09:21 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Yassin is redacted, Rantisi is redacted, George Habash is dead, his successor Sadat was redacted, Marawan Barghouti is in jail, most Palestinians would inspect any fruit brought to them by Mustafa Barghouti very carefully and Abbas's shorts are wired by Mossad.

Leila Khalil? She is in Paris, I think.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 28 October 2004 09:26 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by miles:

funny they said the same about rabin being a sell out.

could the new leader if their is a need for one be someone off the radar? a unifier but someone who is respected by the people?

does that person exist?


Does "miles" exist?

I dunno, ask "addie"...

Goodnight, sweet prince....

*PLONK*


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:26 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i do not pretend to know the inner circle but i do know talking heads so to speak.

what about hanna ashwawi or serb erket (i know i butchered the spelling of both)

it just seems to me that their has to be a "voice of the people" that the world will look at and say "there is the man/woman that created the state of palestine"


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:29 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
well since i do not knwo who addie is and have been called miles since i was in school since i look sort of like miles from murphy brown i assume i exist
From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 09:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jack Layton?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:37 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
cueball i was thinkng more along the line of chris axworthy...no wait he defected to the libs forget that.

too bad joe clark could be used here again

ok i have got it but he is american....what about david ortez ...he did just win the world series and unified the red sox team


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 09:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like the Joe Clake idea, he has a lot of nerve operating in enemy held territory as his election run in Calgary showed 8 years back.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:43 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
what about don cherry as a door prize for being named a top 10 canadian he gets an all expense paid trip to the middle east and is not allowed to return until either stable peace or hockey what ever comes first
From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 28 October 2004 09:48 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well, Yassin is redacted

Which Yassin are you refering to?

I don't think you used redacted properly.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 09:51 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
sorry call me stupid but what does redacted mean?
From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 09:52 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He doesn't like Finns....

quote:
"...what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."

Sharon Advisor, Dov Weisglass on the Gaza withdrawal.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 09:56 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Redacted... edit and revise. I am using it euphemistically to mean blown up by missiles launched from a US made Apache helicopter gunship. In other words edited out of the world.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 10:02 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
well considering that someone gets blown up almost daily i guess the leadership should have a short list of about 50 to be safe and rotate them in as needed
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Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:05 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

All the more reason to provide the Palestinians with some of ours.


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Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Which Yassin are you refering to?


The evil parapalegic one in the wheelchair, you know the one who was sworn to fight Israel to the end, well.... except on that one occasion where he offered Israel a 30 year truce.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 10:11 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
cueball what was wrong with the offer?

or is it that any offer is bad?

as well i have no problem giving some of ours. do we start in bc or in nfld?


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:16 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well is Arafat dies, Israel will need to find a new "no partner for peace," so even if Yassin had not been redacted and was available there would be those various blemishes on his record of total intransigence, a 30 year truce offer, a series of truces negotiated through the PA, and several unilateral cease-fires, that would undermine his credibility as "no partner for peace."

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 28 October 2004 10:20 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
got you... of course this also assumes that while the new palestinian leader is deemed to be a no partner for peace that whether sharon survives or not that the israelis will call the new leader a no partner for peace.

it creates an interesting dynamic. for years the israelis said they could not work with arafat. if arafat is no more. the excuse could fall by the way side as well.


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 28 October 2004 10:23 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No, not Marwan Barghouti. Mustafa Barghouti. Marwan is the terrorist/freedom fighter.
Mustafa is a respected pacifist, peace activist and intellectual.

sorry my mistake Although I still think Abu Mazen or Abed Rabbo would be good.

And as I also said I think if one of these leaders come to power I think Israel will have to negotiate and get rid of sharon well they're at it. Time for a frest start.

I also think Nussebeh would be a good choice although that is just a nice and guess there are people here who don't want peace and would call him a sell out too.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:24 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It is really among the most evil things the Arabs do, cease-fires, (unilateral ones even!) negotiations, and so forth. Talk about war crimes -- it's a crime against war itself.

You just can't trust any of them, even Yassin. It's not suprising Sharon had him bounced from the script.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:33 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The best "no partner for peace" I can think of is still Marawan Barghouti, they'll have to let him out of jail I guess, just as they did with Yassin in '87.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 28 October 2004 10:36 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I got why? Why Marwan Barghouti?

What has he done that puts him above the people I suggested?


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 October 2004 10:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because he stands for something. You know all that shouting in the Israeli court about how Israel has no mandate to arrest him in the West Bank because Israel doesn't have sovereignty. I mean actually questioning Israeli authority is a rare thing among what is left of the Palestinian leadership -- actually acting and behaving as if Palestinians have rights, etc.

I can't think of a better "no partner for peace."

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 28 October 2004 10:46 PM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:

And Bush, Sharon and useful idiots like you.

Bush and Sharon? Sure. "Useful idiots"? Kinda harsh; a few thousand years in purgatory should do the job. Anyhow, you need to save space in Hell for the villains that matter.

[ 28 October 2004: Message edited by: Mike Keenan ]


From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 October 2004 11:13 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Marwan Barghouti seems the logical choice; he's the Palestinian Mandela.

If not Barghouti, then Hanan Ashwari would be my pick. Besides her political credentials, having a female Anglican leader of Palestine would drive anti-Arab racists around in circles.


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Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 12:34 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Arafat was an anti-semitic fraud who wanted to ethnically clean the Middle East of Jews. Marwan Bhargouti is a convicted murderer of women and children. Those who worship them clearly have issues.
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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 October 2004 12:43 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
well.... except on that one occasion where he offered Israel a 30 year truce.

Oh dear. My world has just been turned upside down. I thought Hamas was made up of irrational religious fanatics who would fight to the last Jihadi(like the Knights Templar) and here I find they can be negotiated with. Would it be possible to negotiate with Osama Bin Laden too?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 12:44 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Arafat was an anti-semitic fraud who wanted to ethnically clean the Middle East of Jews. Marwan Bhargouti is a convicted murderer of women and children. Those who worship them clearly have issues.

Right, and Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, We know this because it was proven in an South African court.

If Yasser Arafat wanted to ethnically cleanse the middle east of Jews, why did he join an organization whose charter identified Jews who had lived in pre-Zionist Palestine as Palestinians, with the same rights as Christians and muslim Palestinians. Also, why did he send a letter to Yitzhak Rabin recognizing Israel's right to exist in 1990?

[ 29 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 October 2004 12:47 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peacefulnotion:
Arafat was an anti-semitic fraud who wanted to ethnically clean the Middle East of Jews. Marwan Bhargouti is a convicted murderer of women and children. Those who worship them clearly have issues.

Do you have proof to back up these claims?


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Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 12:52 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Arafat-TV Disinherits the Jews
By Ariel Natan Pasko
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 12, 2004


Was Jesus a righteous Palestinian killed by the State of Israel? Was Moses a Muslim who prayed frequently to Allah? Sound crazy? Not if you watch the "history" programming broadcast on the Palestinian Authority's television network.

Thanks to Itamar Marcus over at Palestinian Media Watch, who monitors Palestinian television broadcasts, we now "know" that:

1. The Hebrews of the Bible have no connection to the Jews of today.
2. The Hebrews of the Bible were Arabs.
3. The Prophets of the Bible were Muslims.
4. Biblical King Solomon was a Muslim Prophet.
5. Solomon's Temple was not built by Israelites but by Arab Canaanites.
6. The Canaanites are the forefathers of the Palestinians.
7. The Bible is legends based on what Jews imagined and not on history.
8. The Jews of today are descendents of a 13th Century Khazar tribe with no history in the Land of Israel.
9. The location of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is a Zionist invention.
10. Zionism is Racism.

The following discussion below, was broadcast on PA TV by "historians," Dr. Jarir Al-Qidwah, Head of the PA Public Library and Arafat's Advisor on Education and Dr. Issam Sissalem, senior historian and Educational TV host, who is the former head of the History Dept. of the Palestinian Authority University. The moderator was Mohammed Albaz.

Palestinian Authority TV, Aug. 2, 2004...

Albaz: Where did the story of Solomon's Temple come from?

Al-Qidwah: Solomon's Temple, I believe, was built by the Canaanites who were the neighbors of the Israelis, the Israelites...I want to state several words clearly: the Bible became an archival document, not representing what the Israelis and the first Jews were, but what they thought they were, what they imagined. The Temple is the fruit of their imagination. In any case, when our nation or our Canaanite forefathers came to Palestine, they built the Temple, a temple in Jerusalem.

Sissalem: We, as the Palestinian nation fighting for its freedom and liberation, must not focus too much attention on these false [Biblical] legends. The history of our land continues more than ten thousand years. The land of battles and wars, [many] armies, tribes and commanders came through. I want to point out that we should not focus much on what is called the [Biblical] Hebrew tribes, who are in fact Bedouin - Arab tribes. There is no connection between them and these Khazar Jews [of Israel today]. Those [Hebrew - Arab] tribes were erased and ceased to exist and no traces were left of them. That group did not have a pure religion. They claimed that Solomon, may he rest in peace, built the Temple. Does the land testify to this? Solomon was a prophet and we see him as a Muslim and part of our [Islamic] heritage. There is no historical text that proves the existence [of the temple] or that it has a real history other than the Bible, and the Bible as we have previously mentioned, was written based on ancient legends.

I won't bore you any longer with this insanity, if you "must" read it, check out PMW's site.

But what I can tell you is, that the falsehood bothers Israelis so much, that the usually self-flagellating, left-leaning Ha'aretz, last May, featured the article "A campaign of denial to disinherit the Jews." In it, the author tells us:

"Years ago, a group of archaeology students from Bar-Ilan University went to Jerusalem's Kidron Valley, hoping to save archaeological remnants from earth the Wakf [Muslim religious trust] had dug up on the Temple Mount and dumped in the riverbed. A Wakf official who noticed the students began yelling at them. One sentence struck them in particular: 'You have nothing to look for here, just as the Crusaders had nothing to look for here. Jerusalem is Muslim.'"

According to the article, a recent study by Dr. Yitzhak Reiter, conducted for the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies states:

"In the last generation, the Islamic and Arab history of Jerusalem has gradually been rewritten. At the heart of this new version is the Arabs' historic right to Jerusalem and Palestine. The main argument is that the Arabs ruled Jerusalem thousands of years before the children of Israel. In addition to building the Arab-Muslim case, the Muslim thinkers are formulating a denial and negation of the Jewish-Zionist narrative. Included in that effort is the de-Judaizing of the Temple Mount, the Western Wall and Jerusalem as a whole."

And if you thought Palestinian insanity was bad enough, it seems to be contagious....

Reiter, a specialist in Contemporary History of the Middle East at Hebrew University's Truman Institute, points out that not only Palestinian propagandists like Arafat and PA-appointed mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Akram Sabri, have lost it, but both former and current Jordanian Ministers of Wakf Affairs, the Muslim world's most popular cleric, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, and others as well.

For example, the former Jordanian minister of Wakf affairs, Abed al-Salaam al-Abadi, Sheikh Raed Salah and several Islamic Internet sites refer to Abraham as the builder of the Al-Aqsa mosque 4,000 years ago. Whereas the current Jordanian minister of Wakf affairs, Ahmed Khalil, has said that Israel is intervening in Al-Aqsa (Temple Mount) affairs "in order to build the fabricated temple there."

The Qatar-based Islamic cleric, Egyptian-born Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and a leading theologian - who achieved star status thanks to his weekly religious phone-in program "Al-Sharia wa Al-Haya" ("Islamic Law and Life") on the Qatari satellite channel, Al-Jazeera - has identified the Jebusites as an ancient Arab tribe that wandered from the Arabian peninsula, together with the Canaanites, around 3,000 B.C. and therefore predated the children of Israel in the land. So have members of the Saudi royal family, Palestinian archaeologists, such as Dr. Dimitri Baramki, Syrian clerics and others in the Arab/Islamic world.

And of course the Palestinians are descended from the Jebusites....

Egyptian archaeologist Abed al-Rahim Rihan Barakat, the manager of the archaeological site at Dahab in Sinai, recently wrote in an article appearing on the Internet site of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, "The myth of the fabricated Temple is the greatest crime of historical forgery." And, a fatwa on the internet site of the Wakf in Jerusalem states that David, Solomon and Herod did not build the Temple; rather they repaired something that had been there since the time of Adam.

So, next time you get the "crazy idea" that just maybe Israel can make peace with the Palestinians, or that the Islamic world is ready to live in peace with the rest of the world, knock that revisionist baloney right out of your head. They're having a psychotic episode, gripped in mass insanity.

And, if Jesus ever comes back, Arafat will portray the Nazarene as a Palestinian "Shaheed" (martyr) who the Israeli occupation has killed - as Yasser Arafat has stated on numerous occasions. You'll hear it first on Palestinian Authority TV.


From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 12:52 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh dear. My world has just been turned upside down. I thought Hamas was made up of irrational religious fanatics who would fight to the last Jihadi(like the Knights Templar) and here I find they can be negotiated with. Would it be possible to negotiate with Osama Bin Laden too?

A serious comment to be sure, unlike uhhm errr the bial and hatred spitting from peacefulnotions keyboard.

It think that it is important to remember that Hamas started as an indiginous organization which came into existence to rectify a specific injustice, that being the occupation. Al Queda, really had no legitimacy in Afghanistan, except as an international solidairty group supporting the Afghan resistance. Osama bin Laden, is first and formost an ideological crusader, Hamas is a resistance movement with concrete objectives.

Any organization with concrete objectives can be negotiated with and they have negotiated on several occasions, mostly with the PA.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 12:56 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's an excerpt describing the Grand Mufti:

Al-Husseini is said to have "firmly asserted his belief in the authenticity of the notorious 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion.'" He used the occasion to spread a libel – not the last of his career – that the Jews planned to "rebuild the Temple of Solomon at the seat of the Mosque of Omar," known more familiarly as the Dome of the Rock, a Muslim shrine on the Temple Mount. Still in his capacity as grand mufti, he led a third massacre of Jewish settlers in 1936.

But al-Husseini owes his place in history to a meeting that took place on Nov. 28, 1941, in Berlin, where he had gone to convince Adolf Hitler of his total dedication to the Nazi goal of exterminating the Jews, and offered to raise an Arab legion to carry out that task in the Middle East. For the mufti, the meeting with Hitler was the culmination of an eight-year effort to convince the Nazis to forge an alliance with the Palestine Arab Higher Committee he headed. Their once-secret pact, which I shall describe, marks the beginning of Nazi-style anti-Semitism as a mass movement in the Arab world.

and here's the link to the whole story which leads to Arafat:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35563

Haj Mohammad Amin al-Husseini's vicious anti-Semitic ideology formed a lasting impression on another young Arab nationalist, who became a close confidant and ardent disciple during his postwar exile in Cairo, when al-Husseini regaled his audiences with tales of Hitler's Germany.

Born on Aug. 24, 1929, Mohammed Abd al-Rahman Abd al-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini enrolled at Cairo University in 1951. He came not to study, but because the university had become the hotbed of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Free Officers, unabashed Nazi sympathizers who, under Nasser's leadership, went on to stage a successful coup the following year. The coup was still far off, and the younger al-Husseini shortened his name in order to disguise his family ties. Ever since then, the world has known the mufti's most famous disciple as Yasser Arafat.


From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 12:58 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Arafat-TV Disinherits the Jews
By Ariel Natan Pasko
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 12, 2004

(blah blah blah)


Suggesting that Yasser Arafat believes the quasi-religious discussion that go on on PA TV, is like saying that the presidents of broadcast networks in the US believe, and are responsible for everything that Jimmy Swaggart says.

Notably, you seem to also be trying to establish that Arafat was anti-christian. His wife is a christian. Did you know that?

quote:
Here's an excerpt describing the Grand Mufti:

The grand mufti is dead. He is also not Arafat. Suggesting that the voice of the grand mufti is important today is like saying that we can link Gerhard Schroder to Hitler, simply because they are of the same national group.

Uhmm I think we were looking for a direct quote from Arafat to support your view that Arafat is an anti-semite sworn to cleansing the jews from the middle east.

[ 29 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:09 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Give me time to get the exact quotes -- his denial of a Jewish presence in the holy land to his devotion to the Nazi Mufti -- there is a lot out there.
From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:12 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=7647

An article on Marwan Bargouti's conviction for murder.


From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 01:13 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He is in an organization that explicitly recognizes the Jewish right to be in the region. That right is expressly outlined in the 1964 PLO charter. He signed commitments with Yitzak Rabin expressly recongizing Israel's right to exist.

[BUT] Good go find quotes... remember quotes, without sources are worthless.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 01:18 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
An article on Marwan Bargouti's conviction for murder.

That Barghouti article has so completely and astonishingly increased the validity of my case, I am so suprised. They found no diretc evidence, nothing at all!

The best they can come up with is:

quote:
“In most cases Barghouti did not have the exact knowledge of when a terror attack would be perpetrated because it was his decision to run things in this manner”, the court decision stated. “He knew his operatives are carrying out terror attacks, but did not know when”.

The judges added that Barghouti used the media to encourage Fatah operatives to commit terror attacks against Israel. “He had a great deal of influence”, the judges wrote. “As a leader, he occasionally ordered the terror activity to cease, and then to resume. Bargouti contributed significantly. Even when he didn’t take part in the operations, he still assisted in funding the terror groups and provided them with arms”.


They can't even establish that he had direct knowledge of anything. How do they know that he new, if they can't establish direct knowledge. Any attacks could simply have been loose canon in his organization.

Thank you. I had absolutely no idea the case was so horrifically weak. It is far worse than I had expected. Thanks for bringing that forward!


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 29 October 2004 01:20 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peacefulnotion:
Arafat was an anti-semitic fraud who wanted to ethnically clean the Middle East of Jews. Marwan Bhargouti is a convicted murderer of women and children. Those who worship them clearly have issues.

Do you make the same demands of Israel, and Israeli leaders? Where, pray tell, are the hands not soaked in blood amongst the Zionist elites?

If you are only willing to negotiate with saints, on either side, then there will never be any peace. That's just reality.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 01:24 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look! at the article socalledpeacefull notion posted about Barghouti. Read it. They don't have anything on him at all. He gave speaches that is all, apparently.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:27 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually I rely on more than newspaper reports when I seek to determine the guilt or innocence of particular persons. I have not noted any juridicial issues with the decision and the Israeli court system is one of the fairest and most sophisticated in the world. I would rely on their judges reaching a fair decision.
From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 29 October 2004 01:30 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're a piece of work, peacefulnotion.


Cueball: The dude puts the word occupation in quote marks. There's really not much point discussing anything with him.

I'd really hope someone like Macabee or another Israeli partisan would take him to task for his hateful, racist language.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:30 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually Coyote, the Israelis were always willing to negotiate for peace which is why they were willing to make peace in Taba in 2000 only to have the Palestinians carry out their bloody intifada. Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan and would like to make peace with the Palestinians. It is the Palestinians that refuse to accept a Jewish presence in the Middle East, not the other way around. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, they'd be in pieces and that would be the case whether or not they were in the West Bank or Gaza or not.
From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:32 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Coyote, I'm sure you'd find someone in your racist anti-semite club (I'd say Hi**er Youth group but that would be cliched) I'm sure you've been called that before). The lands are not occupied, they are disputed territory.
From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 29 October 2004 01:33 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
See ya, peacefulnotion.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peacefulnotion
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posted 29 October 2004 01:36 AM      Profile for Peacefulnotion     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Coyote -- you started the ad hominem attacks. You're like the bully who beats up the little kids and then starts crying when you learn one of them has a big brother. Your views are abhorrent and misguided -- please try to learn the facts.
From: Guyville | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 October 2004 01:45 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, facts. You mentioned Anti-semitic quotes from Arafat. That is what interested me. I have never seen one of those.

Everything else you are saying, I can pick up by going to Massada 2000 or some other neo-facist site. Worldnetdaily news unsourced conspiracy theory stuff doesn't cut it. Sorry.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 29 October 2004 01:48 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Yes, facts. You mentioned Anti-semitic quotes from Arafat. That is what interested me. I have never seen one of those.

Christ, I'm waiting for him to provide an anti-Semitic post from me.

From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 29 October 2004 01:55 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peacefulnotion:
Coyote, I'm sure you'd find someone in your racist anti-semite club (I'd say Hi**er Youth group but that would be cliched) I'm sure you've been called that before). The lands are not occupied, they are disputed territory.

Just copying this in case HatefulNotion tries to delete it.

What a doozy of a post. I don't think I've ever seen anyone play the "anti-Semite" card AND break Godwin's Law, all in so few words.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 October 2004 02:36 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We used to call this clown "hatefulnotion" way back when. I thought it had been banned, since it hasn't slithered around babble in such a long time.


Coyote's right. Don't bother trying to talk to it.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 October 2004 08:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peacefulnotion:
Coyote, I'm sure you'd find someone in your racist anti-semite club (I'd say Hi**er Youth group but that would be cliched) I'm sure you've been called that before). The lands are not occupied, they are disputed territory.

Hey "Peacefulnotion": I'm the moderator of this forum. As of now, please take a break from the Middle East forum. I don't want to see your posts here for at least a week. If you post here again, I'll ask Audra to ban your account.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 29 October 2004 08:40 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peacefulnotion:
Coyote, I'm sure you'd find someone in your racist anti-semite club (I'd say Hi**er Youth group but that would be cliched) I'm sure you've been called that before). The lands are not occupied, they are disputed territory.

Truly an inappropriate and disgraceful characterization. People like peacefulnotion do littlre to promote the pro-Israel cause when they engage in nazi analogous rhetoric and play with racial sterotypes.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Joel_Goldenberg
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posted 29 October 2004 11:10 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post
"Suggesting that Yasser Arafat believes the quasi-religious discussion that go on on PA TV, is like saying that the presidents of broadcast networks in the US believe, and are responsible for everything that Jimmy Swaggart says. "

Errr, PA TV is controlled by the PA, which dictates what goes on. And even on privately-owned TV, federal regulators would take measures against most of what is featured on PA TV- encouraging kids to martyr themselves, anti-Semitic sermons, etc.


From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 October 2004 12:15 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, now, do you have videotapes?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
liminal
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posted 29 October 2004 02:19 PM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Well, Yassin is redacted, Rantisi is redacted, George Habash is dead, his successor Sadat was redacted, Marawan Barghouti is in jail, most Palestinians would inspect any fruit brought to them by Mustafa Barghouti very carefully and Abbas's shorts are wired by Mossad.

Leila Khalil? She is in Paris, I think.


Cueball. Georges Habash is not dead (neither is Arafat for that matter).

Al-Q said

quote:
If not Barghouti, then Hanan Ashwari would be my pick. Besides her political credentials, having a female Anglican leader of Palestine would drive anti-Arab racists around in circles.

I believe Hanan Ashrawi would be the ideal Palestinian leader, since, in addition to what you've posted, wasn't she the official Palestinian delegate to the the Madrid peace conference in 1991, alongside Haidar Abdel Shafi? Doesn't that mean that she is representative of a considerable portion of the Palestinian people?


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 October 2004 03:55 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Any organization with concrete objectives can be negotiated with and they have negotiated on several occasions, mostly with the PA.



Osama bin Laden's objectives seem pretty concrete to me. He wants to establish a Islamic Caliphate from Saudi Arabia to the caucuses. Granted, this plan would endanger world oil production and cause a global recession, but couldn't his conditions be met? Of course the cheif negotiater at the talks would have to be dumber then a sack full of hammers, but still.

[ 29 October 2004: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 October 2004 04:17 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It think that it is important to remember that Hamas started as an indiginous organization which came into existence to rectify a specific injustice, that being the occupation.

I thought you said that the main goal of Hamas was to take over Israel, establish wahabist state and forcibly convert every Jew in the country to Islam.

How could Yasser Arafat, a Marxist, negotiate in good faith with people like that? I'm sure Sheik Yassin didn't trust the man. How could they compromise?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 October 2004 04:22 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Too long.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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