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Author Topic: Killing Children is No Longer a Big Deal
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 16 October 2004 11:29 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gideon Levy:
quote:
The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our [Israel's] hands. No tortuous explanation by the IDF Spokesman's Office or by the military correspondents about the dangers posed to soldiers by the children, and no dubious excuse by the public relations people in the Foreign Ministry about how the Palestinians are making use of children will change that fact. An army that kills so many children is an army with no restraints, an army that has lost its moral code.
When the final chapter is written on this bloody occupation, it is people like Gideon Levy that history will reward.

From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 17 October 2004 08:24 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Iman was not the only one. Mohammed Aaraj was eating a sandwich in front of his house, the last house before the cemetery of the Balata refugee camp, in Nablus, when a soldier shot him to death at fairly close range. He was six at the time of his death. Kristen Saada was in her parents' car, on the way home from a family visit, when soldiers sprayed the car with bullets. She was 12 at the time of her death. The brothers Jamil and Ahmed Abu Aziz were riding their bicycles in full daylight, on their way to buy sweets, when they sustained a direct hit from a shell fired by an Israeli tank crew. Jamil was 13, Ahmed six, at the time of their deaths.

I quote, Coyote, because I am almost beyond words at this point.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 17 October 2004 09:02 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have one quibble with this important and moving article. A psychiatrist from the Toronto-based Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture http://www.ccvt.org/ was part of a medical team that travelled to the Occupied Territories specifically to deal with the anxiety and psychological trauma (regression, violence, acting out) experienced by Palestinian children as a result of the violence and constrant threat of violence of the occupation.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
aa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5228

posted 17 October 2004 10:44 PM      Profile for aa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And here are the learned observations of Irwin Cotler, which come dangerously close to the methadology of Holocaust deniers:

PALESTINIAN PSYCHOLOGY: BELIEVING A DIFFERENT REALITY

Irwin Cotler

This past spring I attended a seminar in Israel that was part of a
Conference on "Children in the Shadow of the Gulf War," focusing on
the impact of the war on Israeli and Palestinian children. Both
Israeli and Palestinian psychologists gave presentations. The
Palestinian psychologists said that during the curfew, and in the
midst of the Gulf War, there were rumors that were genuinely believed
amongst the residents of the territories to the effect that the
Israelis had built mass graves for the Palestinians, that there were
concentration camps which had been built, and that there were massive
bus transfers across the border. They related that Palestinian
children were even describing their experiences in these Israeli
concentration camps, having been saved from these mass graves.
Afterwards I raised with the Palestinian interlocutors my concerns
-- or that of any human rights lawyer -- investigating allegations of
human rights violations in the territories. I mentioned to them that
if they themselves acknowledged that these were not only rumors that
were genuinely believed, but children were recalling their experiences
as if they had in fact been in the camps, how was one to know what to
believe when allegations were made of torture of children or women
during the course of the intifada? Could that not also be part of the
creative imagination? No reply was given.
[Note: Irwin Cotler is a constitutional lawyer who has worked
actively for decades on behalf of the human rights movement.]
-- _Survey of Arab Affairs_, No. 25, 15 August 1991, Jerusalem
Center for Public Affairs

http://www.womeningreen.org/judea/jm12.htm


From: montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 18 October 2004 12:01 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wonder just what orifice Irwin Cotler is speaking out of, anyway.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5228

posted 18 October 2004 12:36 AM      Profile for aa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That same orfice that always boasts that he's worked on the rights of Palestinian political detainees, whenever he;s faced with accusations of bias. He worked with the a Palestinian human rights group headed by Bassam Eid on a report on torture.

Well, I checked out the report. It dealt only with torture by the PA. Bassam Eid had ofcourse done work on torture in Israeli jails, but Cotler, for some reason, never contributed. I finally contacted Eids organization, and was told that "Cotler never bothered with Israeli torture".

This was a study in inimitable mendacity. Eid's organization fights against all human rights abuses, whether by Palestinians or Israel. Cotler decided to participate only when the they were dealong with Palestinian Human Rights abuses. As for Israeli torture, which, in terms of years and the numbers tortured far outweighed the PA's, Cotler's explanation can be read in the article I posted above.

What, one might ask, did Cotler do with the report? He took it to a Congressional Subcomittee, to lay out how the Palestinian were human rights abusers. As for Israeli human rights abuses, you had better not mention them to Cotler, if you dont like being called a "new antisemite."


From: montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 18 October 2004 05:43 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I suppose Gideon Levy is a "new self-hating-Jew" then.

I found this Independent article about the long-term social and psychological harm to Palestinian children and families well worth a read, though it is rather long.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 18 October 2004 08:17 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aa:
What, one might ask, did Cotler do with the report? He took it to a Congressional Subcomittee, to lay out how the Palestinian were human rights abusers. As for Israeli human rights abuses, you had better not mention them to Cotler, if you dont like being called a "new antisemite."

It's like the New Coke! Or the New Math.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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