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Author Topic: Anglican divestment: A failure of moral vision
Macabee
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posted 07 October 2004 01:44 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Forward a progressive Jewish newspaper calls it the way it sees it on divestment.

The Forward

[ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: Macabee ]


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 07 October 2004 01:56 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You might want to make the thread title reflect the subject of the thread more clearly, if it's about Anglican divestment in Israel. "A failure of moral vision" could be referring to anything.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 07 October 2004 01:57 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is great. Thank you, Macabee. The shrill, hysterical and dismissive tone of the article is ample evidence that divestment and consumer boycotts is a far more effective tool against Israeli apartheid than violence.

We need to put in place the organization for an international campaign. Does anyone know if anyone is working on this?

[ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 07 October 2004 02:16 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It is easy to suggest, as this newspaper has often done, that Israel should take this sort of diplomatic and economic fallout into account when it formulates its diplomatic and military policies toward its neighbors. But the burden has now shifted, because Israel is currently reshaping its policies with precisely those considerations in mind. It has begun demarcating a border between itself and the Palestinians. Where the barrier impinges on Palestinian civilian life, Israel's own courts have ordered it moved. It is now preparing for a dramatic first step, however imperfect, toward removing its army and settlers from the territories. For all these steps, Israel has been greeted in the liberal West with nothing but further abuse.

Of course, this is bullshit, as is indicated by the remarks made by Sharon's deputy in the other thread that Mac seems to be avoiding (must be busy preparing key messages before he wades into that one). Israel is not doing anything of the sort. It's playing a PR game and these suckers have bit down on the hook.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gentlebreeze
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posted 07 October 2004 02:20 PM      Profile for Gentlebreeze     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This appears to be a part of a larger movement within protestant communitites.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1311571,00.html

I think Wingnut is dead on. The article Macabee posted illustrates a important tool to be utilized by those of us in the west. Meaningful protests against Israeli policies are very difficult, and usually remain marginal and ineffective. I wonder if perhaps this more direct, consumer based, method might be something worth considering.


From: Thornhill | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 07 October 2004 04:28 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Looks like their 'moral vision' is 20/20. If I lent someone money, and they used it in the process of committing crimes like the ones underway in Gaza, I would no longer lend them money. Simple.

[ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 07 October 2004 04:33 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess I wonder about the Anglican communion's involvement in this sort of thing, when they are looking at expelling the Episcopalian (American) province for consecrating a gay bishop.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 07 October 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Forward has been going backward for years. It's nowhere near as progressive as it used to be, and is little more than a house organ for the Israel right or wrong crowd. If Israel wants to stop the divestment, let it end the occupation and dismantle the illegal settlements. Until then, let its acolytes stop their whining about it.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 07 October 2004 05:30 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Forward remains one of America's premier progressive newspapers. Just because its editorial disagrees with your positio Josh makes no less progressive. Perhaps it is right and you are wrong.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 07 October 2004 05:34 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Outrageous, Josh! People must be forced to invest in Israel whether they want to or not!

I have to say, though, when I first saw the thread title I had this vision of an Anglican ministers' strip-a-thon. Taking off their vestments, like.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 07 October 2004 05:57 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now we're making progress: semantics...
From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 October 2004 06:02 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I think we can just dismiss the whole Palestinians did it to themselves crap out of hand, as the carpings of the lunatic fringe. It is good to see that progressive members of the Anglican church are making progress in dismantling Israeli Aperthed. Excelent.

Even the oragans of Zionist propoganda are screaching, so we know that the AC is on track. Excelent.

[ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 07 October 2004 07:35 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From the Forward:

quote:
the canny marketing of Palestinian victimhood


quote:
the inhuman Palestinian practice of suicide bombings

(Warning: writing that way will get you banned from babble.)


quote:
Israel is currently reshaping its policies with precisely those considerations in mind. It has begun demarcating a border between itself and the Palestinians. Where the barrier impinges on Palestinian civilian life, Israel's own courts have ordered it moved. It is now preparing for a dramatic first step, however imperfect, toward removing its army and settlers from the territories. For all these steps, Israel has been greeted in the liberal West with nothing but further abuse.

Well, y'know, we've all been reading "Mr Formaldehyde" Weisglass these last few days.

Still, to say that the Sharon government's murderous plans have been greeted in the West with nothing but abuse would be incorrect. Obviously, Mr Formaldehyde met with lots of success and sympathy in Washington.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 October 2004 10:11 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hell, if I gave someone money, and they used it for a morally wrong purpose, I would no longer give them money. Simple as that.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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Babbler # 5227

posted 07 October 2004 10:24 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
(Warning: writing that way will get you banned from babble.)


And who exactly are you warning, the editor of the Forward? Are you now saying that mainstream progressive newspapers like the Forward are no longer allowed on Babble? Hey Skadal you better tell the moderator because I have no intention of limiting quotes from this paper. You might as well call all mainstream papers out of bounds on this Board.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 07 October 2004 10:28 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
And who exactly are you warning, the editor of the Forward?

The batteries on your irony detector have run down again.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 October 2004 11:47 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Misheibstinum
Symbol: Mbs

A highly dense, obtuse element of no specific gravity. While being a highly reactive element, it nevertheless has no known applicable use. Is known to reverse polarity when isolated or when put in contact with more active elements.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 08 October 2004 12:54 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Are you now saying that mainstream progressive newspapers like the Forward are no longer allowed on Babble?
Yes, that is exactly what she is saying. Being a mainstream progressive website, rabble.ca must ensure, in a wholly mainstream and progressive way, that any text being posted on rabble.ca reflect the mainstream progressive views of the mainstream progressive audience, including text from mainstream progressive organs, from being allowed on the mainstream and progressive bulletin board system, babble.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 08 October 2004 03:00 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Misheibstinum
Symbol: Mbs

A highly dense, obtuse element of no specific gravity. While being a highly reactive element, it nevertheless has no known applicable use. Is known to reverse polarity when isolated or when put in contact with more active elements.


In further news, it has been discovered to have several allotropes1, indicating that it can readily rearrange its configuration to present different appearances from time to time. It is not known whether allotropic rearrangement occurs spontaneously or under the influence of discovery that one allotropic form is the same element as the other as opposed to being two different elements.

Research continues on the question of whether there exist any radioactive isotopes of natural origin.

---

1. An allotrope is the same element, but with a different arrangement of its atoms such that its properties may differ substantially due to differing interatomic force interactions. For example, ordinary graphite and diamond are allotropic forms of carbon, but clearly the two have dramatically different properties due to the stronger interatomic bonding in diamond.

[ 08 October 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 08 October 2004 05:23 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 08 October 2004 05:24 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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