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Author Topic: What's this about a "missile" being loaded into a UN vehicle?
Agent 204
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posted 03 October 2004 12:27 PM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There's been a story on the radio and elsewhere alleging that the Israelis have photographed militants loading a missile into a vehicle with UN markings. The picture in question is shown here; it's far from obvious from the picture that it's actually a missile, and some on the radio think it may be a stretcher (though that's far from obvious as well). Anyone know more about this?
From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2004 06:13 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While anyone else would assume that an object shaped roughly 2'X 6' and carried on a stretcher would be a human figure, the IOF naturally accuses the United nations of being in league with the Palestinian resistance and in aiding its military operations.
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Unforgotten Pete
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posted 03 October 2004 09:03 PM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israel has made similar accusations in the past regarding UNRWA that have been unfounded.

Here's a link to the video footage from Reuters
Click!

Or the link from the jpost.com website
Click!

I think looks like a stretcher but it is very low resolution video. I'd have more confidence in the claim that it was a rocket if this was verified by a neutral independent source. The trouble is, I can't think of any neutral source that Israel and the Palestinian Authority could agree on

"Rescue worker Wahel Ghabayen, 38, says he is the man seen running in an IDF video allegedly showing terrorists using a UN ambulance to transport a Kassam rocket.

Speaking to reporters at a UN press conference in Gaza City, Ghabayen said he had run with a stretcher, not a rocket, to a school in Jabalya on Friday after he heard that someone there may have been wounded. The wounded boy had already been moved by the time he arrived, he said.

"I came back to the car with the stretcher, and I folded it and threw it inside the car," he said. "If it was a missile, I would not throw it into the car but would put it in carefully." The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) is demanding that Israel apologize for making false accusations against it. "
Link Click!


"When our hatred is too bitter it places us below those whom we hate." François de la Rochefoucauld

[Edited by Michelle to shorten the URLs and get rid of the sidescroll]

[ 04 October 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 October 2004 12:08 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
While anyone else would assume that an object shaped roughly 2'X 6' and carried on a stretcher would be a human figure, the IOF naturally accuses the United nations of being in league with the Palestinian resistance and in aiding its military operations.

Ya, and why not ?. Afterall, the Yanks once funelled food and weapons to the Khmer Rouge who practiced hit and run tactics with the Viet Cong. The Yanks are fearful that anyone else would draw from their old bag of dirty tricks.

So let's get wide ?.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 04 October 2004 12:53 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sidescroll is the Devil's right hand.
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aRoused
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posted 04 October 2004 07:19 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Two, no, make it three things:

First, how difficult would it be to find a white van and paint 'UN' on the roof? Please, spare me.

Second, the guy doesn't exactly carefully place the 'rocket' into the back of the truck. You don't throw explosives, even if they are technically 'safe'.j

Third, from Wikipedia, this would have to be a Qassam 3 rocket. 90 kilos is not something you tuck under your arm and toss into the back of a truck. Arguably, neither is 32kilos, the weight of a Qassam 2.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 October 2004 08:37 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I heard on the news this morning that they're claiming it was a folded-up stretcher.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 04 October 2004 09:41 AM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post
The story is evolving past whether or not it's a missile - the local UNRWA official there is saying it's likely he has Hamas guys on his payroll. He argues that they're not the militant wing, but it's still another bit of red meat for those who feel that the UN has taken sides in the issue. It will be embarrassing for DFAIT, too.
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skdadl
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posted 04 October 2004 09:59 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here is a Jerusalem Post article detailing the charges praenomen mentions above.
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Macabee
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posted 04 October 2004 10:15 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hamas has been labeled a terrorist organization by Canada. This should be interesting.
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skdadl
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posted 04 October 2004 10:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, this is first of all a blood-soaked tragedy.
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Unforgotten Pete
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posted 04 October 2004 06:13 PM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe somebody could answer why Sinn Fein (political wing of the IRA) was acceptable to negotiate with but the political wing of Hamas is not?
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Rufus Polson
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posted 04 October 2004 06:50 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it's cuz the Israelis are still in the "We're going to win so we don't need to negotiate" stage.
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Rufus Polson
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posted 04 October 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I heard on the news this morning that they're claiming it was a folded-up stretcher.

Those fiends! Transporting folded-up stretchers!

Basically, near as I can make out, the Israeli authorities want to throw as much doubt as they can on the status of ambulances, so that they can better defend their routine policy of firing on ambulances in violation of the Geneve convention and all decency.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 04 October 2004 08:14 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Maybe somebody could answer why Sinn Fein (political wing of the IRA) was acceptable to negotiate with but the political wing of Hamas is not?

The CJC have darned good lobbyists.

Maybe their second-stringers work babble.


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Cueball
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posted 04 October 2004 09:50 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Basically, near as I can make out, the Israeli authorities want to throw as much doubt as they can on the status of ambulances, so that they can better defend their routine policy of firing on ambulances in violation of the Geneve convention and all decency.


Actually, recently the PA called for international intervention in Gaza to prevent the ongoing invasion(s), raids and attacks by the IDF. I think this little charade is all about reinforcing the idea that the UN is an untrustworthy alien organization, and any mediation or intervention by it will be very unwelcome.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bubbles
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posted 04 October 2004 10:21 PM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post
Maybe we should call all earth worshippers together and reclaim the world for the aboriginal inhabitants.
Religious people have one weakness, in that they follow a leader with a musical idea. Who wants to be the Piper?

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al-Qa'bong
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posted 04 October 2004 11:21 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I think this little charade is all about reinforcing the idea that the UN is an untrustworthy alien organization, and any mediation or intervention by it will be very unwelcome.

That much seems obvious. With the UN gone the Israelis can rob and massacre whomever without having to be concerned about any pesky witnesses.


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Bubbles
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posted 05 October 2004 12:07 AM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
That much seems obvious. With the UN gone the Israelis can rob and massacre whomever without having to be concerned about any pesky witnesses.

You cannot paint all Israelis with one brush, there are some good pesky witnesses amongst them, mind you more pesky witnesses are needed.


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Unforgotten Pete
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posted 05 October 2004 12:53 AM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
al-Qa'bong

You posted a reply to my post regarding Sinn Fein and Hamas' political wings.

You seem to be implying that I'm a member of the CJC writing on babble as second string propaganda.

Maybe you could clarify this statement

quote:
The CJC have darned good lobbyists.
Maybe their second-stringers work babble.


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beluga2
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posted 05 October 2004 01:47 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Um, no, I believe he was answering your question.
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al-Qa'bong
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posted 05 October 2004 01:51 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Beluga's right. I was responding to the comment about Sinn Feinn without checking to see who posted it.

If you must know, I hadn't noticed you before.


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Unforgotten Pete
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posted 05 October 2004 03:23 AM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
al-Qa'bong
Well I spent some time reading the forums before posting so I'm not surprised you hadn't noticed me before. The remark about the Canadian Jewish Congress having good lobbyists seems irrelevant to why it seems that all Hamas members are treated as terrorists, rather than being treated similarly to Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, by Israel, the USA and the European Union. (IE: as a political party not a terrorist organization). I assume your not suggesting a world wide plot by the CJC whereby their lobbyists control government opinion about Hamas?

beluga2
Thanks for chiming in with the mind reading act. Should I check with you first, in the future if I wish to find out what al-Qa'bong is thinking.

I hope you'll find that I prefer to try to find out the truth and don't have any one side that I'm for or against. In this conflict both sides have killed, wounded and terrorized more than enough innocents for all human beings to be disgusted.
If anyone has a real answer to my first question I'd really like to find out.

"When our hatred is too bitter it places us below those whom we hate." François de la Rochefoucauld

More important:
Have FUN!!!


From: BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Unforgotten Pete
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posted 05 October 2004 03:29 AM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rufus Polson

Thanks for your answer.

quote:
I think it's cuz the Israelis are still in the "We're going to win so we don't need to negotiate" stage.

That sounds like it might be part of the answer. It's tough for individuals to be calm and rational when they're angry much less nations.

From: BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 05 October 2004 08:51 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

The CJC have darned good lobbyists.

Maybe their second-stringers work babble.



Of course it would have nothing to do with their planning and carrying out of mass murder...naaaa!!!

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 05 October 2004 08:54 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Sinn Fein is the political wing of an organization with a history of doing the same thing. So?
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Cueball
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posted 05 October 2004 02:46 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Of course it would have nothing to do with their planning and carrying out of mass murder...naaaa!!!

The CJC has good lobbyiests because they plan and carry out mass murder? That is the first I hear of that.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 05 October 2004 08:10 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Never mind.

quote:
...the Israeli army on Tuesday backed away from an accusation that Palestinian fighters used a UN ambulance to transport a rocket to be fired at Israel, a charge that raised a stir within the world body.

The United Nations, "which is supposed to keep the peace, is cynically used by murderers to transport Qassam rockets in UN vehicles," Gillerman told Israeli radio.

A blurry video taken by a military drone aircraft of the alleged incident has been removed from the army's web site amid "an internal discussion of the authenticity of our assessment," a military source told Reuters.


In other news:

quote:
Israel has arrested 13 UN employees and plans to indict them for "suspected links to terrorism"...

From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 05 October 2004 08:49 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Someone got a "smashing your head against a brick wall" emoticon?
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 06 October 2004 12:09 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...the Israeli army on Tuesday backed away from an accusation that Palestinian fighters used a UN ambulance to transport a rocket to be fired at Israel,

Not to worry, though. Along with other useful myths, I'm sure this one will keep circulating for years.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Unforgotten Pete
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posted 06 October 2004 12:49 AM      Profile for Unforgotten Pete     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I'm not surprised Israel backed away from it's accusations against the UN. Sort of as those they've arrested have been detained for the past four years. the australian news
I keep reading about Peter Hansen's (hate of Israel)UNRWA chief.
As I understand, the current offense mounted by Israel, is in response to two children being killed by a rocket fired by Palestinian militants. I've only been able to find refrences to two deaths by these Palestinian rockets. I know that others have been wounded by as Israel has now killed two Palestinian children. guardian: two shots to the head

How do, parents especially, and human beings in general ever condone killing children?


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Cueball
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posted 06 October 2004 12:57 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Its derpessing that this kind of story featuring the sad human side of the IDF devestation of the Palestininas never seems to make it to the news in Canada.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 October 2004 01:03 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yesterday the CBC said the IOF offensive was a resopnse to "a series of murderous rocket attacks." (How many attacks? How many mortars? How many vicims? Did each attack kill anyone?)

They didn't mention this, though:

quote:
In southern Gaza, a Palestinian teenager on her way to school was killed by Israeli occupation forces as the onslaught on the territory entered the seventh day.

Iman al-Hams, 13, was shot at from an Israeli army observation tower in the Tal al-Sultan neighbourhood of the town of Rafah, on the border with Egypt.

Al-Dabbash was killed in his car by
an Israeli missile
Her body was riddled with 20 bullets, including five in the head, doctor Ali Musa from the Rafah hospital said.


God's keeping score, Ariel Sharon


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 06 October 2004 02:37 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
More fucking carnage.

quote:
The tanks shelled a town in the northern Gaza Strip, killing a 17-year-old Palestinian and wounding 10 children, witnesses and medics said.

Medics said a tank shell killed the young woman in a house in the town of Beit Lahiya and ambulance crews were pinned down by Israeli gunfire trying to get to the body.

Another shell hit a house where a family was sleeping, wounding 10 children ranging from six months to 12 years old, several of them seriously, hospital officials said.

A third shell that witnesses said was apparently aimed at militants wounded three civilian bystanders.


Here's the IOF's feeble excuse for the overkill assassination of the pubescent girl mentioned in al-Q's last post:

quote:
"The incident occurred in a place forbidden to Palestinians," military sources said. The soldiers said this was not the usual way to school and that her being near the post was not accidental, and she was probably sent by terrorists to check the soldiers' alertness.

The sources said the soldiers were shooting at an adult woman in a sterile area, where anyone who enters is doomed. "In any case, the army is checking why the soldiers fired at the child and why so many bullets were fired," they said.


"Sterile"? Places "forbidden to Palestinians" -- in their own land? Free fire zones? My God.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 06 October 2004 05:53 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
Someone got a "smashing your head against a brick wall" emoticon?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 06 October 2004 08:35 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by beluga2:
"Sterile"? Places "forbidden to Palestinians" -- in their own land? Free fire zones? My God.

The USA used to declare certain zones in Vietnam "free fire zones". The idea was, back then, to portray the image of an enemy who would use any level of force no matter how disproportionate in order to effectively segregate the North Vietnamese army from South Vietnam.

Obviously didn't work, of course, but considering they Agent Oranged the place for a decade, it's not hard to see who the Israelis are learning from.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 06 October 2004 01:32 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Article in The Independent about Israel backing off from missile in ambulance claim; also
quote:
At the same time, however, Israel made clear its anger at comments in a Canadian television interview by Peter Hansen, the head of UNRWA, that there were likely to be Hamas members on the UN agency's payroll. The army repeated that "we have a general concern about UNRWA, about the use of its property and some of its members". The army said 13 of UNRWA's large and mainly Palestinian workforce in Gaza had been arrested over the past four years and that there were plans to indict them for "suspected links to terrorism"...

Another Independent article re above, as well as about wishful thinking and a depressing summary of recent casualties. It mentions in passing that if Palestinians can fire Qassam rockets from Gaza, they may also be able to fire them over the separation wall.

[ 06 October 2004: Message edited by: Contrarian ]


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sgm
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posted 13 October 2004 03:46 AM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Not to worry, though. Along with other useful myths, I'm sure this one will keep circulating for years.

FWIW, on tonight's National with Peter Mansbridge, there was a brief segment on Israel's backing away from the claim that the fellow in the tape was loading a missile into the UN van.


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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