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Author Topic: Gaza: today's Abyssinia
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 October 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Palestinian cabinet appeals for international intervention in Gaza

quote:
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has called the campaign a "monstrous, criminal inhumane attack" on his people.

[ 02 October 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 October 2004 01:47 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Excuse my ignorance, but what is that picture?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 02 October 2004 02:25 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
That's Haile Selassie addressing the League of Nations.

I'd like to pretend that I'm so informed as to be able to non-chalantly point that out, but I actually clicked on the properties of Al's image, found the web site it comes from and looked there.

Ya see, that's how librarians pretend we're so smart.

Edited because I spelled Selassie's name wrong *cretin smiley*

[ 02 October 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 02 October 2004 04:11 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
I thought at first the quote said 'Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat called *his* campaign a "monstrous, criminal inhumane attack" on his people. '
From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 02 October 2004 04:38 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
HAW HAW HAW THAT WAS SO FUNEY.

If you've got anything substantial to say, let's hear it. Otherwise save the dumb-arsed "deliberate misreading" humor for the sandbox.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 October 2004 04:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Ya see, that's how librarians pretend we're so smart.

Smartass.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 02 October 2004 04:47 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Michelle: *snerk*

Hey Conway, I was just about to offer Cao my *cretin smiley*, but you beat me to it.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 02 October 2004 05:14 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You guys. There is a massacre underway. Look at the CBC update.

I have to go now.

The Lord lift up his countenance upon them
And give them peace.

What a hell of a world we live in.

[ 02 October 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 02 October 2004 05:19 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
Conway,
Much like Hinterland, who actuallyenjoys mocking others , I was making light of AlQabong's typical useless banter with a subtle point. Let me wake you through it sometime.

Somethng substantial? javascript: x()
Razz
I wonder if the IAF pilot says to him or herself before they squeeze the missle off, 'You fire rockets at me, I fire rockets at you'.

[ 02 October 2004: Message edited by: caoimhin ]


From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 02 October 2004 05:48 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I was making light of AlQabong's typical useless banter with a subtle point. Let me wake you through it sometime.

How misguided are the stupid when assessing their own intelectual capablities.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 02 October 2004 06:15 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
How am I stupid, Cueball?
From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 02 October 2004 06:25 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Precisely.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 02 October 2004 07:50 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
How am I stupid, Cueball?

Grammar and spelling "flames" are not generally considered in good taste. Your 'joke' was on the level of laughing at someone for stuttering. Your insistance that it is subtle (even witty) repartee is evidence that you rate your intelligence beyond what you evidence in your postings.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 October 2004 08:56 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I thought at first the quote said 'Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat called *his* campaign a "monstrous, criminal inhumane attack" on his people. '

Hmm, caoimhin's subtle point is that he's an inattentive reader?

He's right, though; any words directed his way are useless.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 02 October 2004 10:30 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
More die in gaza agression

quote:
JEBALIYA REFUGEE CAMP, Gaza Strip - Israeli troops and aircraft hit hard at Palestinian militants this weekend, killing at least 11 in a massive Israeli incursion into the Gaza Strip (news - web sites)'s largest refugee camp, as masked Hamas gunmen vowed more rocket attacks on Israeli towns.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 02 October 2004 11:24 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You know what I hate? I and just about every other babbler who identifies with Palestine fall over ourselves to deplore suicide-bombings, etc. which kill innocent Israeli civilians; on the hand, Israel's apologists on this board consistently either deride Palestinian deaths, ignore them, or make light of threads pointing them out.

It's a sick ideology they peddle, I tell you.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 October 2004 11:44 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Excuse my ignorance, but what is that picture?

Santayana, anyone?

In fairness to Michelle, one cannot learn from history unless one first knows history, although basic human decency ought to compensate for many untaught history lessons.

Nevertheless, isn't history taught in schools any more?

A few weeks ago on babble, a teacher admitted to not knowing about the On to Ottawa Trek until seeing a documentary on the History Channel.

I'm still shocked over that one.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 03 October 2004 12:21 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In Alberta at least, people train to be teachers by getting a degree in Education. They may or may not actually take any history courses. They may just rely on whatever information packages are provided to teachers. [Subject to correction; I am not a teacher myself]
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2004 12:28 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Shouldn't we expect a certain level of historical knowledge from all teachers, not just those who teach history?

In any case, my concern isn't even so much about teachers or the school system. I believe that as a society and a culture we all ought to be more aware of history.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
JBG
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posted 03 October 2004 12:42 AM      Profile for JBG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
You know what I hate? I and just about every other babbler who identifies with Palestine fall over ourselves to deplore suicide-bombings, etc. which kill innocent Israeli civilians; on the hand, Israel's apologists on this board consistently either deride Palestinian deaths, ignore them, or make light of threads pointing them out.

It's a sick ideology they peddle, I tell you.


There's a big difference between the death of 11 Palestinian fighters (according to news reports 9 were killed and they were fighters) and the slaughter of hundreds in a bus.


From: Harrison, New York | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 03 October 2004 12:53 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JBG:

There's a big difference between the death of 11 Palestinian fighters (according to news reports 9 were killed and they were fighters) and the slaughter of hundreds in a bus.


Let's break this down to get at how truly twisted your logic is.

The first one we will deal with is this: "hundreds on a bus". JBG, I would just love to see that statistic sourced. Exactly where and when did this attack killing "hundreds on a bus" take place? How big, exactly, was this bus?

You are right to draw a distinction between "combatants" and "non-combatants". I agree with you that civilians should not be targeted in either side of a conflict; in this, we have international law on our side.

Sadly, the IDF does not agree with us. Israel has long maintained that international treaties, including Geneva to which Israel is a signatory, do not apply in the Occupied Territories. This has led to a brutal policy of collective punishment, resulting in staggering civilian losses in the West Bank and Gaza. Please refer to B'Tselem, the wonderful Israeli human rights organization, for a full break-down of all the sad deaths in this conflict, including children. The numbers do not lie, and they tell a very different story from the propaganda you spread.

It truly is sad to watch people who might otherwise be good people allow themselves to be used as spokespeople for a brutal occupation. I imagine the twisting of truth and contorting of reality must be agonizing, after a while.

I hope that you, and your co-thinkers, get the help that you need and are able to one day contribute to the ending of this conflict, rather than cheerleading for tyranny.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 03 October 2004 01:01 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I believe that as a society and a culture we all ought to be more aware of history.

Amen. The thing is that there is so much history and a lot is mixed with myths; you can popularize it with books, movies & TV but then it tends to get distorted. Still, shows like Mark Starowicz' help though I don't know how many people they appeal to. [People's History of Canada, and recently various one hour shows on CBC]

There are historical societies I think in each province; and events happening; in Calgary and Edmonton we have historic weeks with volunteers guiding walks around various areas of the cities, eg the back alleys in downtown Calgary where some wall still have the old signs painted on. Several places across Canada have Doors Open [or Open Doors] a day [or more?] when tours can go through historic buildings.

Take comfort that some demographer has pointed out our population is aging and thus more likely to get interested in genealogy, history, museums, the arts, etc.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 October 2004 01:47 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
There's a big difference between the death of 11 Palestinian fighters (according to news reports 9 were killed and they were fighters) and the slaughter of hundreds in a bus.


Thanks for adding this blindingly brilliant insight. You have really brought something original and informative to this thread. Now, that you have said this I really understand everything so much more.

I don't think that anyone would have noticed that there is a difference in the manner of warfare being used by both sides without your intervention.

I look to you for even more intelectually scintilating posts. I especially like the way your impartiality comes across. There is no way that anyone could ever conclude that you are pandering to gross paranoia, or not taking into account the perspectives of both parties in coflict.

Did I say thank you? Yes I did, right there at the top of the post, but let me do it again: Thank you, you have brought all of us closer together with your wisdom, your compassion and your intelligence.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Please enlighten me to one thing. Aside from your perspicacious insight do you ever add new information to a discussion?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2004 03:34 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lighten up, cueball. There was some new info in that post.

I hadn't known that Israeli buses were the size of jumbo jets before.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 03 October 2004 08:48 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Santayana, anyone?

In fairness to Michelle, one cannot learn from history unless one first knows history, although basic human decency ought to compensate for many untaught history lessons.


Thanks anyhow, al-Qa'bong, but Hinterland's answer was a lot more informative. Just because I don't recognize a picture (gee, there are probably millions of pictures out there that I don't recognize or haven't seen before!) doesn't mean you have to imply that I'm an ignoramus.

But maybe I'm just being oversensitive.

[ 03 October 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 October 2004 11:39 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And a PS to al-Q, about that teacher who started a thread on the On-To-Ottawa Trek:

Gee, al-Q: you noticed any other babblers starting such a wonderfully educational Can-historical thread lately?

Even if your point is incontestable, that the teaching of Canadian history in Canadian schools is in obvious need of some improvement, I am still shocked that someone who supposedly cares that we all keep learning would use condescension and scorn as teaching tactics on the obviously well intentioned.

Unlike MOST OF THE REST OF THE POPULATION, britches actually sat down, paid attention to a historical program, and then he brought news of that program to babble. His first post drew forth all kinds of generous and educational posts from others.

And for that, you look down your nose at him???

Sheesh.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 03 October 2004 12:02 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
Let's break this down to get at how truly twisted your logic is.

The first one we will deal with is this: "hundreds on a bus". JBG, I would just love to see that statistic sourced. Exactly where and when did this attack killing "hundreds on a bus" take place? How big, exactly, was this bus?

You are right to draw a distinction between "combatants" and "non-combatants". I agree with you that civilians should not be targeted in either side of a conflict; in this, we have international law on our side.

Sadly, the IDF does not agree with us. Israel has long maintained that international treaties, including Geneva to which Israel is a signatory, do not apply in the Occupied Territories. This has led to a brutal policy of collective punishment, resulting in staggering civilian losses in the West Bank and Gaza. Please refer to B'Tselem, the wonderful Israeli human rights organization, for a full break-down of all the sad deaths in this conflict, including children. The numbers do not lie, and they tell a very different story from the propaganda you spread.

It truly is sad to watch people who might otherwise be good people allow themselves to be used as spokespeople for a brutal occupation. I imagine the twisting of truth and contorting of reality must be agonizing, after a while.

I hope that you, and your co-thinkers, get the help that you need and are able to one day contribute to the ending of this conflict, rather than cheerleading for tyranny.



Yes I know you hate Michael Coren but his point is an interesting one:

quote:
Sometimes terrorism is easy to define. The purposeful murder, abuse and intimidation of people only because they are innocent. The suicide bomber who opts to kill not soldiers but women and children on a bus. The armed guerilla who kidnaps and kills schoolchildren precisely because they are, yes, schoolchildren.

There is a moral difference between the death of an innocent person who is standing close to a military target and the deliberate killing of that innocent person. Israel's targeting of men who plan the murder of restaurant patrons is not the same as the targeting of those same restaurant patrons.


Canoe news service


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 October 2004 12:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is a moral difference between people who face the horrible consequences of their actions or their privilege and those who weave sentimental fantasies to distance from themselves all the misery they are causing to the already wretched of the earth.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 03 October 2004 01:33 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When terrorists hide in refugee camps, that action forces their military pursuers to decide whether to subvert moral standards established by international agreement, to include, and justify, a refugee camp as a legitimate military target. (That agreement was itself the result of learning from at least a century of just the same kind of tragic moral decision-making.) So no matter what one thinks of the decision to bomb a refugee camp under these circumstances, the result is that from the military's perspective, there is no longer any practical difference between a military and a civilian target. Thus the military's action is hardly different than the terrorists', who forced them to make a decision.

Since there will be a virtual guarantee of innocent lives lost--not only at the time of attack, but later, due to disrupted food and medical supply lines and the undoubted creation of more terrorists motivated by revenge--the military either sees this decision to attack a refugee camp as unfortunate but necessary (in that case a long-term blunder), or as a chance to do a little terrorizing itself. Once the moral subversion is justified (first by the military, then by civilian advocates like Coren), the military is then able to justify more bombing of refugee camps and the killing of more civilians for even more tenuous reasons, such as the pre-emptive strike that Coren imagines.


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 03 October 2004 01:59 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mac might have done well to quote the next couple paragraphs in Coren's article:

quote:
Israel's bombardment of civilians in Beirut during the Lebanon war, however, was something entirely different. As was America's bombing campaign in Baghdad that achieved little militarily but terrorized a civilian population. I'm sorry, but we have to be clear and clean.

A nation can be a terrorist state. Iran is. It uses terror to subjugate its own people and to extend its foreign policy. The United States is not. It is a free and democratic society. But it does sometimes use methods of state terrorism. Ali's experience is surely very similar to that of any other victim of terrorism.


I was ready to write a vicious response to the Coren quote above, but then I read the rest of the article and was quite surprised: it actually makes a lot of sense. The "Ali" he mentions is a hypothetical Iraqi whose family and home are blown to pieces by Americans, and who therefore, justificably in Coren's view, sees Americans as "terrorists".

Of course, he then ruins it by making an exception for Israel's bombing of refugee camps, without providing any halfways-convincing reason why that's any different from the US bombing of Baghdad. But you can't have everything, I guess.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 03 October 2004 05:20 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Coren may be right that there is a moral difference, however, it is not as stark a difference as he alleges. Even criminal law in many European and North American jurisdictions has evolved to include the charge of Criminally Negligent Homicide.

Black's Law Dictionary (1992) defines negligent homicide as "(t)he criminal offence committed by one whose negligence is the direct and proximate cause of another’s death". Negligent manslaughter exists in "some jurisdictions consisting of an unlawful and unjustified killing of a person by negligence but without malice" (1992, p. 1035). Negligence specifically defined is "the omission to do something which a reasonable man, guided by those ordinary considerations which ordinarily regulate human affairs, would do, or the doing of something which a reasonable and prudent man would not do" (1992, p. 1032).

Many jurisdictions also employ the notion of "reckless homicide". In this case recklessness is defined as, "the state of mind accompanying an act, which either pays no regard to its probably or possibly injurious consequences, or which, through forseeing [sic] such consequences, persists in spite of such knowledge. Recklessness is a stronger term than mere or ordinary negligence, and to be reckless, the conduct must to such as to evince disregard of or indifference to life or safety of others, although no harm was intended.

Can the IDF be said to be acting "negligently" or "recklessly" when it causes the deaths of admittedly innocent bystanders?

[ 03 October 2004: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 03 October 2004 05:24 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bittersweet said:

quote:
Thus the military's action is hardly different than the terrorists', who forced them to make a decision.

Not so. The militants on the Palestinian side are not hiding in refugee camps, they live in them and are confined to them them by the IDF.


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 October 2004 05:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, where are Palestinians militants meant to live. The desert?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2004 06:08 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought the "terrorists" commuted to the refugee camps from the suburbs.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 October 2004 06:16 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What makes a Palestinian militant, under an assault such as this one?

Any young man who has a gun, and that is most of them.

If tanks were driving into your street, would you not react? And in reacting, and dying, would you be dismissed as "a militant"?

As far as I can tell, that is the obituary for thousands of young Palestinians over the last several years. A century from now, we will be condemned for dismissing their lives through dissembling rhetoric.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 04 October 2004 02:17 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If it's any comfort, it seems young Iraqi men are now being classified in the exact same way. Remember this quote from an American general after that wedding massacre a couple months ago?

quote:
"How many people go to the middle of the desert . . . to hold a wedding 80 miles (130km) from the nearest civilisation? These were more than two dozen military-age males. Let's not be naive."

[ 04 October 2004: Message edited by: beluga2 ]


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 05 October 2004 11:29 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An update on the invasion of Gaza.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 05 October 2004 03:12 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It looks as if the Israelis are back up to their Oslo Peace Process ratio again killing Palestinians at a rate of 10-1. Nice.

quote:
GAZA (Reuters) - Israel killed the chief military commander of the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad in a airstrike Tuesday, the highest profile Israeli assassination for months, local leaders of the group said.


Israeli Strike Kills Islamic Jihad Chief -Witnesses

Its interesting, when they kill these people, they are "Military Commanders" that are being killed, when these people are killing Israelis or Americans they are called terrorists.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Insurrection
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posted 05 October 2004 03:52 PM      Profile for Insurrection     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Its interesting, when they kill these people, they are "Military Commanders" that are being killed, when these people are killing Israelis or Americans they are called terrorists.

Dehumanizing rhetoric: check.

And in other news...


From: exit in the world | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 05 October 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Above all the killing must not stop!

quote:
UNITED NATIONS - The United States on Tuesday vetoed an Arab-backed resolution demanding an immediate end to military operations in the northern Gaza Strip (news - web sites) and the withdrawal of Israeli forces.

U.S. Vetoes Plan to End Israeli Operation


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 05 October 2004 09:03 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Grammar and spelling "flames" are not generally considered in good taste. Your 'joke' was on the level of laughing at someone for stuttering. Your insistance that it is subtle (even witty) repartee is evidence that you rate your intelligence beyond what you evidence in your postings.

So, in other words, you don't get it either. Arafat! Freedom fighter! Leader of his people! Sorry for not toeoing the party line. Its gettng old, though, don't yu think?

From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 05 October 2004 09:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pardon me, but I don't remember ever using those terms to describe Arafat. Perhaps you are right, I am getting old. Perhaps you can find the point where I made those references?

But now that you mention it, I imagine that there are a number of Palestinians who think that Arafat is "a hero to his people." Not being a Palestinian, I have never considered such a possibility. I think this is because silly rhetoric is not my specialty, perhaps you can help me with that.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 05 October 2004 09:58 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But, I'm going to reconsider this line, and withdraw the comment that you are stupid. It's not actually true. You are very stuborn though. I think you should spend more time considering what the people you are talking too are trying to say.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4768

posted 05 October 2004 10:33 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
Then why focus on me? Why not the point I was making? I think you should spend more time considering what the people you are talking to are trying to say. However, after that deplorable ethno-Jewish slur you made on another thread I don't think you are capable. Again, telling.
Stubborn indeed.

From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 05 October 2004 10:46 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you ever get a feeling it is never going to end? Do you ever think these people are going to go on killing each othe until every family on both has been touched by blood? Do you ever think fighting about it is a waste of time?

When Palestinians wail over thier dead and vow revenge, do they not think Israelis do the same when a martyr explodes himself inside a bus filled with people he has never met?

Do Israelis ever ask themselves "would this still be okay if they were Jewish?"

Maybe both sides need to spend some time in the other's shoes.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 05 October 2004 11:05 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Do you ever get a feeling it is never going to end? Do you ever think these people are going to go on killing each othe until every family on both has been touched by blood? Do you ever think fighting about it is a waste of time?

no.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 06 October 2004 05:59 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hamas sets terms for end to rockets against Israel

quote:
"The firing of locally made Qassam rockets is nothing but a means of defending our people in the face of the advanced Zionist war machine," Hamas representative in Lebanon Osama Hamdan said in a statement. "As for talk about an initiative to stop the firing of Qassam rockets, we reaffirm that the occupation is the problem and it is up to the enemy to stop its aggression first and to leave our land second."

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 08 October 2004 05:27 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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