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Author Topic: Fighting in Iran
Rand McNally
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posted 29 September 2004 07:18 PM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
activistchat has posted the following.

quote:
Reports over the past 24 - 48 hours via several important information services such as SMCCDI, Peykeiran, Zagros and direct email reports and phone calls from Iranian citizens is beginning to shine light on what at this time looks to be country-wide fighting and quickly escalating into what could potentially become a freedom revolution.

Several independent citizen sources have reported the formation of significant crowds throughout the country, and have heard many loud explosions and gun shots, including in the cities of Tehran, Esfahan, and Shiraz.


http://activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4143

I have no idea how good a source they are, so take this with a grain of salt. But still something to watch.

[ 29 September 2004: Message edited by: Rand McNally ]


From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 29 September 2004 07:21 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Your link is dead.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rand McNally
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posted 29 September 2004 07:25 PM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for letting me know. I messed up the cut and paste. Should work now.
From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 29 September 2004 07:36 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now, this could be interesting.
From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rand McNally
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posted 29 September 2004 07:42 PM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Could this be our October surprise? I wonder if the US has any spec op super secret squirrel stuff going on. If things get too out of hand the US may just have to secure Iran’s nuclear facilities; nod nod, wink wink.
From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2004 07:43 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow! Thanks for the heads up. I'll be watching this one closely.

I wonder who...what...?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 29 September 2004 07:55 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whoa! If it's really the citizenry rising up, I wish them the best of luck.
If it goes part way, that could be bad. The mullahs could really clamp down. USians might claim they should be invading to "support" the rebels and "establish democracy".
If it goes all the way, I hope the citizens watch carefully to make sure some narrow group doesn't pick up the pieces and establish control.

But still--the prize is great. If they can establish a democratic government of some sort with free elections, that would be really cool.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 September 2004 08:38 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not to be too paranoid, but I also have to wonder how much of this is Uncle Sam's doing.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rand McNally
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posted 29 September 2004 10:18 PM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think I owe people an apology. I can’t find any other confirmation of this. The networks are not covering this. I thought I might have had a hot story here, however it looks like it might just be rumors. Sorry. I guess buyer beware is the motto for linking to unknown sources.
From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 29 September 2004 10:27 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Whoa! If it's really the citizenry rising up, I wish them the best of luck.
If it goes part way, that could be bad. The mullahs could really clamp down. USians might claim they should be invading to "support" the rebels and "establish democracy".

I hope it's for real. I'd have some serious mixed feelings if the US moved in to aid the civilians. On the one hand, supporting a civilian rebellion against the tyrannical mullahs is a good thing. On the other, I trust the US' motives as far as I can throw a car full of PNAC wonks.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2004 10:38 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't want to see the US in there at all. But I'd love to see an uprising of the citizens against that horrid regime.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sinistral
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posted 29 September 2004 11:03 PM      Profile for Sinistral        Edit/Delete Post
It is inevitable that the US and UK get involved in any civilian uprising against the mullahs and their oppressive militia, otherwise there will be a horrendous bloodbath in Iran.

If Iran were liberated from the fundamentalist mullahs, that would pacify the Iraqi insurgents too. A firm US / UK hand in Iran would do much to defuse and defeat the terrorist element in the Middle East and eliminate the need for Israeli intervention against the Iranian nuke factories.

If the present Iranian regime continues, the Middle East will become a quagmire of unrest and armed conflict. The religious fundamentalists must be swept out of power, and that means the Saudis too.

Only the US as the world's only superpower can achieve that democratic goal for the Middle East. That is the only realistically viable solution because the UN, as it is presently constituted, is totally useless and corrupted.


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2004 11:24 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah. You're in the NDP, you say?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 29 September 2004 11:31 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Only the US as the world's only superpower can achieve that democratic goal for the Middle East. That is the only realistically viable solution because the UN, as it is presently constituted, is totally useless and corrupted.

Alright, I'm calling it. Fraud!


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 29 September 2004 11:31 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Zing.

As for the news, this sounds more like psy ops than anything.

The BBC has reports of riots in one town where an "Islamic Fund" went bust and a whole bunch of people lost their deposits. That's about it.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2004 11:33 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Alright, I'm calling it. Fraud!

No offense, honeybunch, light of my life, but I think I called it first.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 29 September 2004 11:39 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Hey, I swear, I didn't even see your post!

(yeah, that's it...didn't see it)


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Section 49
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posted 30 September 2004 12:02 AM      Profile for Section 49     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe activistchat is staffed by psychics, since the fall of the current regime in Iran is happening on October 1:

quote:
LONDON, Sep 28 (IranMania) - A US-based exile with a bizarre scheme to overthrow Iran's Islamic regime has managed to draw out a few hundred half-hearted protestors onto the streets of the capital, causing a slight but insignificant blip in what remains an apathetic mood, Agence France Press (AFP) reported.

[...]

In recent months, Khaleghi has been declaring he intends to return to Iran on October 1 with some 50 chartered passenger planes packed with his supporters, and his scheme -- while in all appearances totally absurd -- has become a hot topic of conversation here.

Satellite television is banned in the Islamic republic but the restrictions are flouted by millions of home owners.

According to the mystic aviation enthusiast -- who left Iran at the age of seven some 40 years ago -- the regime will collapse on the very same day all by itself.


From now on, my goal in life is to be known as a "mystic aviation enthusiast".


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sinistral
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posted 30 September 2004 02:13 AM      Profile for Sinistral        Edit/Delete Post
But it's true !!

There is no other solution to the Middle East situation ... unless you have one ...


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 September 2004 02:34 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lets see what your saying: Your saying that entirety of central Asia from Afgahnistan to Baghdad should be run by US military governments instead of by the people who live there.

I appreciate your zealous desire to see other people go to other peoples countries and kill them with high tech weapons so that Organization Todt... sorry I mean Haliburton can organize the economy, but you are completely nuts.

Oh yeah... my solution... stop reinforcing the ligitimacy of dictators by giving credence and credibility to the idea that foreign powers are trying to take over the middle east through military means.

Nothing like sabre rattling to get everyone to rally around the flag. Before the most recent round of pot banging coming our of Washington, almost any middle east expert will tell you that Iran had embarked on a modest yet progressive program of politcal reform, and the Mullahs were in retreat. Now that there is more-or-less a direct threat of invasion and a concurrent 'national emergency' 10 years of work by Iranian civil rights activists has been flushed down the tubes, thanks to people like you who seem completely impressed with the idea that your personal values should be imposed on everyone else.

[ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 30 September 2004 02:47 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hmm. Do Michelle and Hinterland win the "spot the next phoney agitator" contest, or is Sinistral just a kook? I guess we'll have plenty of time to figure it out, because they never just disappear without a fight.

quote:
Only the US as the world's only superpower can achieve that democratic goal for the Middle East. That is the only realistically viable solution because the UN, as it is presently constituted, is totally useless and corrupted.

These two sentences are practically contradicting each other. By far, the US is the most heavy-handed member of the UN, using its veto, strongarming for appointees, and working to undermine its resolutions more often than any other country. If the UN is useless and corrupted, then the US is a major part of that.

And as usual, you're assuming that the US (that is, its ruling elite) actually want democracy in the ME. If this were true, then I would be in favour of some kind of measured intervention, but there is no precedent to its behaviour that would lead us to believe that the frequent lip service to ME democracy is anything more than words. The US, as a political culture, has a lot to prove if it is to be trusted in this regard, especially given the undeniable importance of ME resources to the US economy (and the west in general).

Losing control of these resources hardly seems to be an option at all if the US is to retain its hegemony, and nobody doubts that even the most enlightened of the US's ruling elite intend to retain it. In Saudi Arabia they have that control by supporting a fascist dictatorship, in Iraq and Iran they moved to secure it (again by supporting fascist dictatorships), and lost it in both cases, making both countries sworn enemies. The "meddling in the ME to secure our own interests" theory practically writes itself. The "meddling in the ME to bring democracy to the suffering masses" theory has no evidence to back it up.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sinistral
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posted 30 September 2004 03:27 AM      Profile for Sinistral        Edit/Delete Post
I would prefer to see people's socialist governments in Iraq and Iran rather than the whacknut fundamentalist regimes that promote terrorism, and that goes for Saudi Arabia too. But somehow I just can't seem to see the path from dictatorship and theocracy to social democracy for the Middle East where all the people can share in the riches of their oil resources to eliminate poverty and revolt.

At least if these autocratic regimes are changed by US actions, that is a step towards some form of social democracy for those poor, disposed people of the Middle East. Of course the US is not going to do this for free and through the goodness of their hearts ... would you?


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 September 2004 03:40 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I would prefer to see people's socialist governments in Iraq and Iran rather than the whacknut fundamentalist regimes that promote terrorism, and that goes for Saudi Arabia too. But somehow I just can't seem to see the path from dictatorship and theocracy to social democracy for the Middle East where all the people can share in the riches of their oil resources to eliminate poverty and revolt.

Well, you know if you go back in history, you will see that the main people that the whacknut fundamentalist knocked off were the Wacknut communists (peoples socialist). For some reason they were worried about what would happen to them if the Stalanists took over.

Imagine that!!!

Of course they were also very happy to get rid of the wacknut Shah whom was imposed on them by the USA. You can imagine that no one is to excited about becoming a US puppet state once again. Ergo, I think the Iranian people would prefer to hold onto their own local wacknuts, as opposed to American or British or Russian wacknuts.

I thought they made that clear in 1978, or am I missing something?

[ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 30 September 2004 04:32 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Of course the US is not going to do this for free and through the goodness of their hearts ... would you?

Actually, yes I would. Are you saying you wouldn't?

Anyway, you're missing the point once more. The US has never done this at all (if by "this" you mean support other countries in their pursuit of democracy), let alone "for free". Unless you have some information that all of us are missing, there is no reason to believe they will suddenly start doing it, and there is every reason to believe they will continue to follow their established pattern of oppressing other countries (and impeding them in their pursuit of democracy) for their own interests.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 30 September 2004 05:25 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Of course they were also very happy to get rid of the wacknut Shah whom was imposed on them by the USA.

Well, to be fair, the US only imposed the Shah because they'd elected a people's socialist who wanted Iran to control Iranian oil. You can't expect the US to stand for that kind of thing.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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