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Author Topic: Israel seeks funds for separate Arab roads
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 06 September 2004 12:32 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Israeli government seeks foreign funding to upgrade the back roads that Palestinians are forced to use - after being banned from routes used by Jewish settlers.

It also wants funding to build new roads which take account of the barrier and its settlements. The plan envisages roads that would run parallel to each other - one for Jews, the other for Arabs.
The Guardian


quote:
International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid:

Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;


[ 06 September 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 06 September 2004 12:44 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just peachy.

Will they set up segregated lunch counters and drinking fountains as well?


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 06 September 2004 10:30 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just so we understand, the roads issue deals with an attempt to stop terrorists from moving about and into Israel. That these terrible tactics must be used to curb murderous rampages like we saw last week in Beer Sheva is sad in the extremem because it does hurt the innocent Palestinian (the vast majority) and restricts movement,

Yet it remains different from a country that would impose hoorible restrictions on its indiginous population simply to relegate them apart. Jews Arabs Christians Muslims who are citizens of Israel are treated equally even though their remains many problems on equality that need still to be resolved.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 06 September 2004 10:35 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In other words, a disproportionate number of the terrorists in Israel have been Palestinian, therefore we should segregate the Palestinians. Hmm. I suppose we could look at our own jails, see which groups are most likely to commit crimes, and segregate them, too. Somehow I don't think that would wash with human rights organizations. I wonder why?
From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 06 September 2004 10:46 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The sad news is that all the terrorists that have murdered Israeli citizens (Jews, Muslims and Christians) come from the Occupied territories and virtually all of them are Palestinian.

Sadly as a result Israel is forced to take whatever means necessary within international law to defend its population. The roads idea seems a temporary reasonable means by which to do so.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 06 September 2004 10:52 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But what would international law say about segregated roads?
From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 06 September 2004 12:23 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, all racism is reasonable. Here is another idea: If you believe in the "two state solution" get the fuck out of the west bank. Oh, but that is unreasonable.

The defence of racism. So disgusting.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 06 September 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The roads idea seems a temporary reasonable means by which to do so.

Temporary? Really? Until when? The end of the occupation or until the Palestinians are expelled?
Don't even bother saying "until the terrorism stops", because that is meaningless. As long as the occupation goes on, and as long as racist scum like Sharon are in power, they will always find something to justify their crimes.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 06 September 2004 01:27 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is from the article:
quote:
Israel said it was interested in "improving the transportation infrastructure to enable uninterrupted movement across the West Bank" but that it would require "extensive and complex construction with international assistance."

Note the words "extensive and complex construction."

The word "temporary" belongs to no one but Macabee. And therefore is without merit.

This is also from the artice:

quote:
B'Tselem says Israel bars from, or restricts Palestinians on, more than 700km of roads in the West Bank. The Israeli military describes roads from which Palestinians are banned as "sterile", a term some critics say has racial overtones .

B'Tselem said in a recent report that Israel's roads policy in the occupied territories causes "harsh, extensive, indiscriminate, and prolonged harm to the local population".

"By unlawfully discriminating against Palestinians, the Forbidden Roads Regime is reminiscent of the apartheid system that existed in South Africa. The regime violates fundamental principles of international law that are binding on Israel," the report says.



From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 06 September 2004 01:29 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
The roads idea seems a temporary reasonable means by which to do so.

Really? I didn't know you could un-pave roads at the drop of a hat.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 September 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
Yes, all racism is reasonable. Here is another idea: If you believe in the "two state solution" get the fuck out of the west bank. Oh, but that is unreasonable.

The defence of racism. So disgusting.


quote:
People who stereotype tend to have fixed and unbending opinions. They respond to challenges by distorting reality rather than reconsidering the assumptions and conclusions which they have labeled truth.... What happens is that the facts are compared to the stereotype and then rejected because they do not fit the stereotype.

Stereotyping is usually caused by ethnocentrism (the attitude that everything is simple, black and white, definite. Every problem is someone else's fault).

Ramifications of stereotyping:

* It forces us to choose sides.

* It causes competition, which is
o destructive
o alienating
o narrow thinking

THE PROBLEMS WITH STEREOTYPING:

* Injustice
o Denies dignity
o Denies individuality
o Denies people's achievements

* Destroys cooperation
o Embarrasses people
o Triggers fear in people
o Creates suspicion and blame

* Destroys happiness
o Victims are degraded
o Perpetrators lose touch with reality and their fears grow (ex., Archie Bunker)
o Our social impulse is curbed--one of our best sources of enjoyment is lost


click


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 06 September 2004 01:51 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Al-Q:

Re:
quote:
~~~~~~
People who stereotype tend to have fixed and unbending opinions. They respond to challenges by distorting reality rather than reconsidering the assumptions and conclusions which they have labeled truth.... What happens is that the facts are compared to the stereotype and then rejected because they do not fit the stereotype. (etc....)

Thanks!! That's a great bit and an even better link! 'ppreciate it!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 08 September 2004 11:35 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Seemingly, it's a temporary, innocent solution, essentially reactive, answering the need to protect the safety of Israeli citizens because of the current reality. In effect, the creation of two separate road networks is a logical step, utterly not innocent or accidental, a part of the long-term systematic planning of the settlements that began almost as far back as 1967. Its purpose: to expand the borders of the state of Israel as much as possible, according to the spreading and strengthening of the settlements.

What makes the Israeli planning system so great is that every stage can be explained as an ad-hoc reaction, or the whim of this or that government or pressure group, ignoring the initial goal. Thus, at every stage, the silently compliant can be counted on to accept the latest development, even if they say they are against settlements in principle.

If Yossi Beilin now supports leaving Ma'aleh Adumim and Givat Ze'ev under Israeli control because they are large and established settlements, in another five years he and his colleagues from the Geneva initiative will be forced to support leaving Givat Assaf and Itamar in place, as each will be a well-established neighborhood of some full-fledged Israeli city.

The donor states, if they finance now the work on the Palestinian roads Israel wants upgraded and improved, will be contributing to the temporary relief of many Palestinians. But they will be direct accessories to turning available land for farming and construction into unnecessary asphalt, further damaging the landscape and environment; and they will assist in consolidating a uniquely Israeli regime of separation and apartheid, making permanent the separation of neighboring communities divided on ethnic grounds, in an area where most of the land has been taken away for the benefit of a dominant minority.

The Jews will have broad, expansive, green communities with "high" standards of living, a developed infrastructure, as much water as they want - the "First World." Beside them will be a "Third World" of suffocatingly dense communities, cut off from other communities and limited in their contacts because of a web of endless roads, the Israeli law and its army, and subject to a strict regime of water quotas and allocation. And thus, while the international economic aid is meant to serve as a strategic instrument for a two-state solution along the borders of June 4, 1967, it is turned into an instrument of the Israeli settlement policies.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/475007.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 08 September 2004 03:41 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An excellent synopsis.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 08 September 2004 04:04 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, the one thing that amazes me is that they plan to build roads for the Palestinians at all. I have this nasty suspicion that they will build the roads largely theoretically or symbolically. That is, they'll get money for it if they can, sure, and they'll build a coupla roads but make sure they aren't positioned to be significantly useful, and they'll put checkpoints on them and rarely let anyone through so they're not really usable. And they'll decide they can't actually cross the settler roads with overpasses or anything because then terrorists might be able to attack settlers on the settler-only roads or blow up the roads or stuff; this coincidentally will drastically limit where these roads can go. And they'll siphon leftover money elsewhere. And any roads that look like people are actually turning out to get used for real stuff will get bombed out during an attack on "terrorists".

That way they'll get the best of both worlds. They'll have the validation of the settlements as a long-term artifact that comes from having "parallel road systems". They'll be able to claim they did something for those ungrateful Palestinians. They'll be able to defend the settler-only roads on the grounds that Palestinians have their own road system.

But they won't actually have to stop the systematic economic strangulation involved in denying the Palestinians transportation and cutting their territory up with impassable settler-only roads, among other practises.

And it looks like they're trying to do all this without actually spending their own money. But I'm not sure Europe will be jumping to hand out any cash this time around; they're rather upset that practically everything they sank dough into when Oslo was looking good got blown up by the Israelis a few years later. They may not be willing to throw good money after bad. The US might help, except they're always a lot more willing to hand out weapons than civilian aid. Still, maybe if Halliburton got the contract . . . but that pretty much guarantees nothing would actually get built.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 September 2004 05:16 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think that Israel should consider allocating some of their multi-billion dollar American aid toward drilling new water wells in the occupied territories. Since 1967, Palestinian water wells have been confiscated and permits to drill new ones denied. WHO says Palestinian's are not accessing miniumum daily amounts to maintain health. Social and economic statistics for the occupied territories are being denied to the UN and world.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 21 November 2004 02:34 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So hey, did anyone figure out how to make "temporary" roads disappear just like that?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The_Calling
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posted 21 November 2004 10:08 PM      Profile for The_Calling   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The sad news is that all the terrorists that have murdered Israeli citizens (Jews, Muslims and Christians) come from the Occupied territories and virtually all of them are Palestinian.
Sadly as a result Israel is forced to take whatever means necessary within international law to defend its population. The roads idea seems a temporary reasonable means by which to do so.


All South African terrorists were black. Using your logic, that justified apartheid.

I generally support Israel since it is fighting an ideology which I believe threatens the entire West but this is unacceptable and flagrantly racist. I don't know how any progressive could support segregation.


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