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Author Topic: Boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling
WingNut
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posted 16 July 2004 01:17 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

Full Story


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 16 July 2004 02:22 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, at least the troops didn't want to marry them. Now that would have been immoral.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 July 2004 02:38 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post

I am so angry I could PUKE!!

Of course, it will all get blamed on "a few rogue queers" and this will be accepted by the Dittoheads as evidence why "faggits" shouldn't be allowed in the military.

And of course, with Iraq having such an enlightened attitude about "gay sex" (as opposed to rape and assault, this will be a virtual death sentance for those poor boys.

Those fucking soldiers should be castrated and then cauterized with a red hot poker!!!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 July 2004 02:48 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not so fast; the world is safer now that Saddam is no longer doing whatever it was that he did.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 July 2004 02:51 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post


Forget it. Words fail me.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 16 July 2004 03:37 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Of course, it will all get blamed on "a few rogue queers" and this will be accepted by the Dittoheads as evidence why "faggits" shouldn't be allowed in the military.

Over my dead body.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 July 2004 03:56 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
And how do you do that?? Shut down Rush Limbaugh, sean Hannity, et al?

Good luck!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 16 July 2004 04:01 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
This has nothing to do with gay people, Heph. This is a crime against humanity.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 July 2004 04:12 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok. I'm a bit calmer now.

I have only one plaintive question to ask: Why would people do this? I just cannot fathom the depths of depravity to which human beings can sink that they would rape anyone, particularly young people who are even less able to defend themselves than adults. Whatever those young men did to warrant being put in prison, nothing warrants their jailers abandoning basic respect for other human beings.

And that's the really saddening and sickening part - that these people were treated not as human beings worthy of some basic dignity and respect, but simply as objects for the amusement of others.

I ask again, Why??? This is utterly incomprehensible.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 July 2004 04:17 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post

Well DUH!? I'm not that stupid!!

What I'm saying is that it will be portrayed that way, and ACCEPTED that way by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. These are the same people who hear of rape in the military, and say it is proof that women should not be serving.

You might not like that attitude, and condemn it as stupid (both true) but that does not alter the homophobia that is rampant both within the military and in the general public.

And to say "over my dead body" is useless posturing when that attitude will be played to relentlessly by the neo-con mouthpieces like Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and so on. And you might not like it, but these shitheads have an audience, and it's HUGE. And that audience *votes*.

THAT'S what I meant!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 July 2004 04:25 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Ok. I'm a bit calmer now.

I have only one plaintive question to ask: Why would people do this? I just cannot fathom the depths of depravity to which human beings can sink that they would rape anyone, particularly young people who are even less able to defend themselves than adults. Whatever those young men did to warrant being put in prison, nothing warrants their jailers abandoning basic respect for other human beings.

And that's the really saddening and sickening part - that these people were treated not as human beings worthy of some basic dignity and respect, but simply as objects for the amusement of others.

I ask again, Why??? This is utterly incomprehensible.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


Dr. C—

Because these evil, sick, warped, twisted, sadistic pricks saw it (quite rightly) as a way to de-humanize, terrorize, intimidate, humiliate, and otherwise lower to the level of animals, people whom they do not view as deserving or worthy of respect or consideration as human beings.

These kids were object lessons to the other prisoners, I am certain of it. Never mind that they will likely be killed by their own communities when they are released— Iraq, like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other Muslim nations being soooooooo understanding and accepting toward "homosexuality." (Never mind that this was an act of brutality and violence, not "sex.")

The people who did this are evil, pure and simple. There is NO justification, no matter WHAT their "orders", or WHO gave them.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 16 July 2004 04:27 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Heph:

Don't you start getting aggressive with me. We are both on the same side. I'm saying that I'm not going to, for one instant, entertain the idea that this has anything to do with gay people, or "don't ask, don't tell" or any stupid thing Limbaugh decides to say. The ideas you entertain while thinking about that kind of thing is the fodder these fuckers look for to spin this into something it isn't.

This is an issue of gross violation of human rights, a crime against humanity, and an abominable abuse of power. Period.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 16 July 2004 04:32 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Heph's right, though. That's exactly how the Fux News crowd is going to spin this.

We better all get our barf bags ready.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 16 July 2004 04:40 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Of course he is. The Right's position on this is utterly predictable. I'm just maintaining a steely focus on what the real issue is.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 July 2004 05:06 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Hinterland—

I don't mean to be angry with you... I am actually torn between violent anger and tears. I have been discussing this on 365gay.com as well. While you may be keeping a "steely focus" on the real issues, "Big Drew" was considering points to refute the Fox News arguements:

quote:

Remember--even Rummy said (two or three months ago) that the undisclosed pix would be very disturbing and inflammatory. Hell--let 'em go fag-bashing. First, the pix and video will have to be released, and run in some edited form on US TV. Second, it won't be too hard to find the offending American fornicators, but how do you prove they're gay? See if they float? Put 'em on a dunking stool? Third, in order to find people to demonize as rapists, the Bushies will have to stage a direct attack on people who've fought their dirty war--a bad idea when those young men (and women) are the ones who know exactly what's happened in Iraq. Sooner or later, the truth will come out.


I responded:


quote:

Drew, I don't **CARE** if the soldiers involved were actually gay or were just straight sadistic fuckwads!!!

This kind of shit makes me so angry I can barely SEE straight! Some things are ***MORE IMPORTANT*** than gay rights, gay issues, gay whatever. Sacrilege on this site, I know, but I don't care. THEY ARE!!!!!

These sick bastards are guilty of WAR CRIMES, and of virtually condemning those poor kids to death by their OWN SCREWED-UP HATE-FILLED FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES!!!!!!!

Those were LITTLE KIDS, and they were abused in the most SADISTIC manner these evil fucks could THINK of!!! I would castrate those bastards MYSELF if I could get my hands on them!!!!! I am so unspeakably angry I can barely think straight!


To think of the line that Fox et al will take is unavoidable, and it is equally tempting to try to counteract that argument.

The simple fact is, I don't care. If these soldiers were gay, I want them punished as much as is humanly and legally possible. If they were straight, I still think the same thing. I would feel the same way (I think) if it was little girls they were raping.

This is just unspeakably evil, and I want these soldiers to suffer, and I want all in their chain of command to suffer, all the way up as high as can be reached.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 16 July 2004 05:14 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I hear you. But don't blow all your energy on the imagined crap-fest. Save it for the real thing.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 16 July 2004 06:25 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
.....


I'm at a loss for words. As if there were not enough "post-war" doubts already.

Somebody has to make those fuckers pay for their crimes.

Another thing that baffles me is whose fucking brilliant idea it is to tape things like this and the Abu Gharib prisoner abuse. Yeah I agree that it is better to have evidence, but what kind of sadistic fucker enjoys taping shit like that??? And what kind of fucktard officer allows soldiers to take cameras and such with them when they are on active duty?

(Sorry for the coarse language, but this is not something I take gently at all)


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 16 July 2004 07:28 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not only that Gir, but who, knowing full well what repercussions there'll be to that kind of shit, doesn't destroy the tapes lest it come back to bite them? I mean, that's basic self-preservation, a hallmark of most sick bastards' mentalities.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 16 July 2004 08:42 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
These allegations have been floating for a long time now. It was reported earlier boys were raped by Iraqi guards and women were raped by American guards. I guess we will have to wait for all the details.

quote:
These are the same people who hear of rape in the military, and say it is proof that women should not be serving.

Maybe now there is enough proof that no one, especially not men, should serve.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 16 July 2004 08:53 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aRoused:
Not only that Gir, but who, knowing full well what repercussions there'll be to that kind of shit, doesn't destroy the tapes lest it come back to bite them? I mean, that's basic self-preservation, a hallmark of most sick bastards' mentalities.

Perhaps they'd been led to believe that this sort of shit was fair game, and that there'd be no repercussions. Of course, now that it's public they'll be hung out to dry, and their superiors who'd led them to believe that they could do that will get off scot-free, after making some sanctimonious pronouncements that this is an "aberration" and not at all in line with policy.


From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 16 July 2004 09:24 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My Blood Is Boiling. The world watches as the Bastard Americans brain washed freaks rape and pillage an innocent country, make deals with criminals in power etc... Oh ya but the world is safer from what? These sick immoral rapists!
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 July 2004 10:20 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
First necessary step: whatever tapes there are must be made public.

If you don't want to watch, then don't. But enough people will that, for once, large numbers of USians will know what is being done in their name.

Americans have to start taking responsibility for these acts. No one else gets to vote for the murderers they elect; no one else benefits the way that they do from the rape of much of the rest of the world. Here is the mirror, citizens: Look.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 16 July 2004 11:45 AM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
First outrage, then random thoughts... I am immediately reminded of the meticulous records the Nazis kept, which were later used as convincing evidence against them. Maybe it only comes down to different recording media: from written journals to video journals.

But maybe the motivations to record are different--the Nazis documented atrocities for efficiency. And the unintended effect, by using the dominant recording media of the time--written columns of names, dates, places, train numbers--was to sever victim from reality. A video camera links them.

So the Americans' recording of torture is likely not for efficiency. The motivation is certainly even more depraved. And there is no severing victim from reality.

It's entirely possible that just having this particular kind of recording medium, rather than the pen, encourages depravation. I have this camera, so do let's give it something to record. The Nazi clerk had no such motivation, sitting at his desk with his ink blotter and his columns of names.


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 July 2004 01:21 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Nazi clerks showed the banal side of evil.

Is the US showing us some other side, or are the Abu Ghraib images just another form of banal tourist photography?

The evil of banality?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 16 July 2004 02:37 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe, al-Qa'bong, it's all these things. Certainly just being present with a camera intrudes, or I should say involves, more. The victim knows he's being taped, and the taper knows the victim knows. The camera intimidates, violates, like a pen doesn't. The cameraman has a much more involved status than that of the clerk, who would not be so present.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 16 July 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by bittersweet:
First outrage, then random thoughts... I am immediately reminded of the meticulous records the Nazis kept, which were later used as convincing evidence against them. Maybe it only comes down to different recording media: from written journals to video journals.

But maybe the motivations to record are different--the Nazis documented atrocities for efficiency. And the unintended effect, by using the dominant recording media of the time--written columns of names, dates, places, train numbers--was to sever victim from reality. A video camera links them.

So the Americans' recording of torture is likely not for efficiency. The motivation is certainly even more depraved. And there is no severing victim from reality.

It's entirely possible that just having this particular kind of recording medium, rather than the pen, encourages depravation. I have this camera, so do let's give it something to record. The Nazi clerk had no such motivation, sitting at his desk with his ink blotter and his columns of names.


Not much will be done. International courts have no juristication of the International Resident... U.S.A.

These crimes are not just on the individual level. I think the Military commanders are the ones responsible for brainwashing the American troops to hate so much and believe that they are so much better.


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 July 2004 02:51 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I keep thinking of that line from E.M Forster's A Room With a View, in which the US tourists are trying to remember a famous site in Italy, and one of them says, "Oh yeah, that's where we saw the yellow dog."

Beyond trying to understand how people could do such things, it's harder to understand how they could photograph themselves doing these unspeakable acts.

And then they send these pictures home as if to say, "Looky here, ma, this is Iraq, where we saw the yeller dog. We didn't have the camera with us when we saw the dog, so we're sending some pictures of where we work."


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 16 July 2004 02:55 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I cannot hide behind cleverness. There is nothing clever to say.
Evil.

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beverly
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posted 16 July 2004 03:22 PM      Profile for beverly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Those *&^**#$%%$% ok just say animals - Bush and Cheney - should be tried as war criminals. Along with Rummy of course. THIS IS JUST SIMPLY.... errrrr words fail me I too f#@#@@#@ in pissed off
From: In my Apartment!!!! | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 July 2004 04:01 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
I cannot hide behind cleverness. There is nothing clever to say.
Evil.

I don't know. That seems as easy and dismissive as saying "The Devil made them do it".

There are reasons to explain why these troops did these things in this place.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 July 2004 04:09 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, but what is there to say? There are things that people do that just have no excuse whatsoever.

Even a murder can sometimes be justified. A rape, never.

Furthermore, it's not as though these ... I hesitate to call them soldiers for they are really more like sad, pathetic human beings ... people were committing petty crimes involving property theft, or somesuch.

They violated other human beings. The only reason they had was that they wanted to inflict pain on someone else, and they felt they had permission to do it.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mardy Mammoth
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posted 16 July 2004 04:32 PM      Profile for Mardy Mammoth     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
C'mon guys. Everyone knows that the USA is as clean as the driven snow. They're the GOOD guys. As far back as Gulf War 1 they've been dehumanizing the Iraqi population for American consumption. Remember the "tearing babies from incubators and throwing them out the window?"

So, I mean, OF COURSE USian soldiers and wannabee soldiers think it is OK to treat Iraqi's any old which way they want. If it hasn't been exactly ok'd in exact orders by the Bushies it has been inferred by the government since Bush 1.


From: Land of the Great White Hunted | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 July 2004 04:33 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The only reason they had was that they wanted to inflict pain on someone else, and they felt they had permission to do it.

That's what I mean; that maybe this isn't the only reason. Your reason lines up with the "few bad apples" excuse. There could be more to it than this.

[ 16 July 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 16 July 2004 07:06 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are you sure of all the facts on this story? It can't really be as serious as you make on, otherwise it would be al over CNN . . . wouldn't it??

One more reason Bush needs to win (steal or cancel if necessary) the upcoming election, to let him finish the destruction of America he started . . . No President in my life time, nor do I expect any in the forseeable future, would make any difference on how America acts out towards the rest of the world (yeah, maybe it would be Iran, or N. Korea, instead of Iraq, but that's about it for the extent of differences.)

America is no better than the "terrorist" states they war against . . . worst in my opinion!!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 16 July 2004 07:23 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Are you sure of all the facts on this story? It can't really be as serious as you make on, otherwise it would be al over CNN . . . wouldn't it??

It will be on CNN when some other major American news organ works up the guts to report it. The most likely, of course, would be the New Yorker, where Hersh works. Then you can expect some mainstream media outlets to pick it up. Haven't you followed the trajectory of major stories damaging to the Bush administration in recent years?


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 16 July 2004 07:58 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

There are reasons to explain why these troops did these things in this place.

Yeah, yeah, I know. We've gone into it all over and over. They're the same kinds of reasons all the other bullshit is being done. All the systemic garbage, and the ideological garbage, and the drive to dominate because you're otherwise empty garbage, and all that. We've hashed it through so many times.

But confronted with something like this, it all seems faded. What's the point of saying it again? I've got explanations galore, and suddenly they just all strike me as a way of distancing myself, putting something between me and the events themselves. They're true enough, but . . . whatever. In the end, I can be as right as rain and there's still idiot monsters raping kids.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 16 July 2004 09:26 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're right, Rufus. I ruminated about the event as a concept, not a reality.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Starbuck
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posted 16 July 2004 09:34 PM      Profile for Starbuck        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Are you sure of all the facts on this story? It can't really be as serious as you make on, otherwise it would be al over CNN . . . wouldn't it??

It is not a new story and has been covered in other places. I believe the Washington Post reported on the story in May [URL=]Washington Post[/URL].

Let's hope that the attention helps shine a light on problems in the military and brings the people responsible to justice.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Starbuck
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posted 16 July 2004 09:37 PM      Profile for Starbuck        Edit/Delete Post
Sorry,

I have problems with my old computer. Here is the full story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43783-2004May20.html


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 17 July 2004 02:58 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In the end, I can be as right as rain and there's still idiot monsters raping kids.

The idiot part is possible, but these aren't monsters, but are people like you and me.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 17 July 2004 03:45 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have to wonder, when they go back to Mayberry, what do they tell their families about What I Did On My Summer Vacation?

"We're so proud of you, son. Defending America like that. You are a real hero. Tell us, how did you make the world safe for Democracy?"

"Well, ma, we beat the shit out of some of those terrorist boys, then me and the fellas fucked them in the ass while we filmed it. Pass the gravy, please gramma?"

Will this make the families of all the soldiers wonder? I mean, does the thought cross their minds that their pride and joy, their little Johnny who volunteers at churh picnics and was captain of the football team and just wants to make enough money to buy Betty Sue that diamond ring, that little Johnny just may be a sadistic child rapist? Will Betty Sue, who waits in breathless anticipation for her dashing soldiers return, have the nasty mental picture of Abu Graib enter her mind when he is on top of her? Will she wonder what memories he is reliving with her?


Maybe they do. Buy maybe they take comfort in the fact that the boys he is raping aren't white boys. Or that the boys deserve it for what they did on 911. Maybe they hope that once he gets back to the States, it'll be okay for him to babysit his nephews because it was the war that made him do it. They'll choose to think that their boy would never, ever do such a horrible thing, would they?

Would they?


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 17 July 2004 08:52 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
I have to wonder, when they go back to Mayberry, what do they tell their families about What I Did On My Summer Vacation?

"We're so proud of you, son. Defending America like that. You are a real hero. Tell us, how did you make the world safe for Democracy?"

"Well, ma, we beat the shit out of some of those terrorist boys, then me and the fellas fucked them in the ass while we filmed it. Pass the gravy, please gramma?"

Will this make the families of all the soldiers wonder? I mean, does the thought cross their minds that their pride and joy, their little Johnny who volunteers at churh picnics and was captain of the football team and just wants to make enough money to buy Betty Sue that diamond ring, that little Johnny just may be a sadistic child rapist? Will Betty Sue, who waits in breathless anticipation for her dashing soldiers return, have the nasty mental picture of Abu Graib enter her mind when he is on top of her? Will she wonder what memories he is reliving with her?


Maybe they do. Buy maybe they take comfort in the fact that the boys he is raping aren't white boys. Or that the boys deserve it for what they did on 911. Maybe they hope that once he gets back to the States, it'll be okay for him to babysit his nephews because it was the war that made him do it. They'll choose to think that their boy would never, ever do such a horrible thing, would they?

Would they?


Wow, way to articulate what I was thinking! Mind if I use this (or something close to it) in other discussions about the Iraq atrocities?


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 17 July 2004 03:02 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
That's what I mean; that maybe this isn't the only reason. Your reason lines up with the "few bad apples" excuse. There could be more to it than this.

I thought I had clearly implied that this goes way beyond a few bad apples. If these people felt they had permission to do what they did, then clearly there's some sort of systematic plan laid-out to cement American domination over Iraq by showing the Iraqi populace that their occupiers will not hesitate to sink to the depths of the Nine Circles of Hell in order to "pacify" the populace.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 17 July 2004 03:39 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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