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Author Topic: Sharon will not be indicted for corruption
Briguy
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Babbler # 1885

posted 15 June 2004 03:05 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mazuz decides not to indict PM in Greek Island affair

Not that I'm surprised, but barf. Mazuz claims that there's not enough evidence. Mazuz also claims that he will release everything that state prosecutor Edna Arbel collected in support of this case. A couple of MKs are pushing for the next highest court to consider an indictment, but that's not likely to happen.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 15 June 2004 03:07 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you have any other evidence to consider? If not let the system run as it should. Israel has not shyed away, in the past from indicting government officials when it had the evidence to do so.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 15 June 2004 03:41 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here is the Coles Notes version of the Greek Island scandal:

Gilad Sharon was paid hundreds of thousands of shekels by David Appel after Ariel Sharon (as foreign minister) helped secure a lucrative casino resort deal on a Greek Island for David Appel. Gilad Sharon had no experience in the tourism or casino industries. Normally, starting wages for a new career are significantly less than hundreds of thousands of shekels.

It appears as though the second scandal (the one where Sharon circumvented campaign finance limits by funnelling funds through a partially owned ranch and foreign pal Cyril Kern) has yet to be dropped.

I don't think anything I've said is antisemetic, unless decrying a lack of equal justice meted against elected officials now also equals antisemitism. Go away.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 15 June 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, but Sarc, you know we never, ever get upset when officials of other countries such as Canada get away with obvious fraud and bribe-taking! Clearly we're holding Israel to a different standard, because you never, ever see a thread about corruption in the US, Canada, England, Bolivia etc.
Oh, wait--we rant about this kind of thing all the time in every country we're interested in.

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 15 June 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
By any standard, Israeli society is rampant with corruption.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 15 June 2004 05:39 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
By any standard, Israeli society is rampant with corruption.
Really the ENTIRE Israeli society huh? Isn't this just as racist as you can get? Claiming that an entire society is corrupt...Will I be the only one to complain? And people wonder.....


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 June 2004 05:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What do people wonder, Macabee? If you're going to say something, say it, quit wussing out with weasel-phrases.

But josh, I also did a double-take at your comment. Israeli society is corrupt? Did you mean to say the government? That's a bit of a blanket-statement, don't you think?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 June 2004 05:52 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"rampant with corruption" doesn't mean that the entire society is corrupt.

It just means that corruption runs freely through the society, which is a different thing.

I could say, eg, that the entertainment district of Toronto is rampant with organized criminal activity, and I would be right (it seems). That doesn't mean that everyone there is paying off the mob ... but there does seem to have been a lot of that going on.

That is all.

"rampant" -- wonderful old word from the world of heraldry.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 June 2004 05:58 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is a lion rampant. He is rampant upon what is known as the flag of King William, aka the Scottish royal standard.



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Michelle
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posted 15 June 2004 06:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah, good explanation, skdadl!

Then, I take back my comment, josh.

So Macabee, just what is it that "people wonder"? Inquiring minds want to know.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 June 2004 06:08 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, actually, I would like to know what josh meant. I don't know these things, and I would like to hear some details.

(Does the title of this thread still give you a jolt? The "Sharon" part? I always think first of our Sharon.)


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 15 June 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Really the ENTIRE Israeli society huh? Isn't this just as racist as you can get? Claiming that an entire society is corrupt...Will I be the only one to complain? And people wonder.....


This time you've gone too far. First, learn how to read. I said the society is rampant with corruption. That is a fact that any Israeli can attest to. I did not say that the ENTIRE society is corrupt. Those are your words. Don't you dare put words in my mouth. And as far as being "racist," where did you come up with that one. Are you so insecure about your religion/ethnicity that you have to lash out like that? I think there's more than a little bit of overcompensating going on. If you want to try to be a politically correct asshole, try it with another post.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 15 June 2004 06:57 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think if you examine any society engaged in the morality sapping excercise of a military occupation, as well as the society of those who oppose the occupation, you will find it is rife with corruption. You can't dip your hands in blood and expect to come out clean.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 15 June 2004 07:00 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
And people wonder.....

What do they wonder? And which people?


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 June 2004 07:07 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't read carefully enough either, apparently. Sorry josh.

So Macabee, you've mentioned that "people wonder" in other threads too. What do "people wonder"?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 15 June 2004 07:19 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

So Macabee, you've mentioned that "people wonder" in other threads too. What do "people wonder"?

And who are these people?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 15 June 2004 07:29 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe there was a mix-up and he meant to type "Wonder People" as in those folks who spawned "Wonder Woman"; or maybe he was generously providing babble with the Reader's Digest version of "Wonderful World, Beautiful People"?

Let us not jump to conclusions. Maybe he wasn't being a two-bit jerk this time.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dr. Mr. Ben
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posted 15 June 2004 08:05 PM      Profile for Dr. Mr. Ben   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look, this seems pretty open and shut to me. Are you going to deny that there are people? Are you going to deny that they may, in fact, wonder?
From: Mechaslovakia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
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posted 15 June 2004 08:32 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2003/2003.10.07.cpi.en.html
From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 June 2004 12:21 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is like a banana republic. In such countries the justice system is a joke and the leaders of such nations often freely get away with bribery, influence peddling, messing with government money, and in general acting anything but leader-like.

So, Macabee, people wonder what? I hate incomplete sentences, you know.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 June 2004 12:26 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Do you have any other evidence to consider? If not let the system run as it should. Israel has not shyed away, in the past from indicting government officials when it had the evidence to do so.

Let's check this news article out.

I notice you said "indicting", not "convicting", but even so, let's see:

quote:
JERUSALEM, June 15 -- The Israeli attorney general announced Tuesday that he has dropped a corruption investigation of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, freeing Sharon from the threat of a possible forced resignation.

"The evidence in this case does not bring us even close to the existence of reasonable possibility of a conviction," Attorney General Menachem Mazuz told reporters.

When Mazuz delivered the news to Sharon in a telephone conversation, according to Israel's Channel Two television, the prime minister said "thank you."


Gee, Sharon thanked the guy. Must be nice to be able to thank the guy you can threaten to fire if he prosecutes you.

Ooh, look. Another article.

quote:
The Israeli attorney-general yesterday dropped a corruption case against Ariel Sharon, prime minister, that could have forced him from office and shelved his plan for unilateral disengagement from the Palestinians.

Menachem Mazuz said that there was insufficient evidence to charge the prime minister in the so-called "Greek island affair". It had been alleged that his son, Gilad, received hundreds of thousands of dollars from a property developer in exchange for Mr Sharon using his influence to promote a real estate venture in Greece.

Mr Mazuz reached his decision despite a recommendation from the chief prosecutor's office that Mr Sharon should be charged.


"Lack of evidence", my ass. And you'll notice the guy overrode the recommendation of his own department people, who said charges should be laid.

I suspect someone did a little leaning on Mr. Mazuz.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 June 2004 08:52 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A confession: Wingy has corrected my usage (originally josh's), which should be pointed out and for which I must thank him.

Wingy wrote of a society "rife with corruption," which is more correct.

If you want to use rampant, it is more correct to say that corruption is rampant in the society, not that the society is rampant with.

Thank you, Wingy.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 16 June 2004 09:14 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In Italian, "i rampanti" are those horridly ruthless yuppies or social-climbers who infested society so in the 1980s and thereabouts. See what skdadl's lion is doing ... God, I love Italy and would move back there in an eyeblink if I could find a decent job there, but the consensus among most folks was how rife with corruption the society was. I'm still trying to imagine josh as a racist. Or perhaps others were right, and MacAbee was simply describing Wonder People, or, being an ardent Zionist and all, the wonder of the people of Israel. I know some wonderful Israelis as well - and I'm sure there are many more - the corrupt and bloodthirsty boor who shares a name with our editor is not one of them though. The most wonderful person I know in Israel is a 95-year-old Viennese lady who lives on a left-wing kibbutz and still paints landscapes, after a life in Austria until the Anschluss, then Brazil, then finally Israel ... not out of Zionism but out of love, after her first husband died, she remarried one of her other old suitors who wound up in Palestine when the culturally brilliant Jewish Vienna was destroyed by that nasty Schörrer from Upper Austria ...
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 16 June 2004 11:39 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Ah, good explanation, skdadl!

Then, I take back my comment, josh.

So Macabee, just what is it that "people wonder"? Inquiring minds want to know.


Always finding excuses to defend those who engage in poisonous talk about Israel and Israelis.

And no Skdadl there is a huge difference between claiming that "israeli society" is rampant with corruption and an "Entertainment" district is the same. One targets a district the other an entire people.

Yes Michelle people wonder why some here go to any lengths they can to demonize Israel and Israelis. People wonder why others go to further lengths to defend them. It all adds up to many on this board going above and beyond the call of duty to present Israel and Israelis as evil people. it is sad, shameful and I believe anti-Semtic.

How dare josh or anyone else flipantly make a comment (that despite attempts to water it down) target an entire people. And of course along comes Skdadal with what purports to be an explanation and BOOM you just accept it.

You have to at least be sensitive to these issues. Alas i for one do not see it


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 16 June 2004 11:43 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:

This time you've gone too far. First, learn how to read. I said the society is rampant with corruption. That is a fact that any Israeli can attest to. I did not say that the ENTIRE society is corrupt. Those are your words. Don't you dare put words in my mouth. And as far as being "racist," where did you come up with that one. Are you so insecure about your religion/ethnicity that you have to lash out like that? I think there's more than a little bit of overcompensating going on. If you want to try to be a politically correct asshole, try it with another post.


Josh clearly Im not the only one who read it this way. And Josh such statements are demonizing of an entire people. So spare me your righteous anger

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 June 2004 11:45 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Macabee, we are sensitive to the issues.

The complicating problem is: we are hypersensitive to you.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 16 June 2004 11:45 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Macabee, do you honestly think that josh is an anti-semite?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 June 2004 11:49 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How can he?

Mishei already knows Josh is Jewish, although he expressed doubt about it when Josh told him so.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 16 June 2004 11:54 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Josh clearly Im not the only one who read it this way. And Josh such statements are demonizing of an entire people. So spare me your righteous anger

The only other person who read it that way has conceded that she read it wrong. Of course, that can be blamed on the fact that she may have been conditioned to react to your hissy-fits by initially accepting what you have to say at face value. Saying the society is rampant with corruption is not "demonizing an entire people" any more than pointing out the large amount of corruption that has occured at times in Italy is demonizing all Italians. You need to stop with these knee-jerk reactions and start reading and thinking.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 16 June 2004 11:59 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some of this reminds me of the defence case in the OJ Simpson trial - bringing up all the horrors in terms of rushes to judgement, lynchings and framings of Black people over the history of the US from slavery days on. Stories that should indeed be remembered and pondered. But that don't mean the defendant in that case hadn't indeed killed his wife.

Why is scathing criticism of Sharon, or of the Likud party, seen as anti-semitism? Is it because the government self-identifies with the land of Israel, and the land of Israel with long-persecuted Jewry? I remember our equally scathing attacks on one Henry Kissinger, who happened to be not only Jewish but a refugee from Nazi Germany. I don't recall such accusations on the part of Kissinger's defenders - though I guess that would be inconvenient, as many of the people Henry K persecuted, especially in Argentina, were Jews themselves.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 16 June 2004 12:14 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are jews who knowingly or not enagage in anti-Semitic rhetoric. It may not be their aim but it is the ultimate consequence.

How can anyone look at it differently, pointing at Israelis as a whole (and make whatever excuses you want but that is what Josh did) and boldly claiming that the society (ISRAELI SOCIETY,,,that means its people)are corrupt. It is disgustingly obvious to those who read it. Unless of course you choose not to see it.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 June 2004 12:17 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It is disgustingly obvious to those who read it.

...through a particular prism....


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 16 June 2004 12:18 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let me try for a third time. I did not say Israeli society was corrupt. I said it was rampant with corruption, i.e, there's lot of corruption running through the political and financial system. I did not say Israelis or Jews were by nature corrupt, which is the only was to read your "racist" smear charge. And I'm so glad to see you extending even further your "objectively anti-semitic" analysis.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
mjollnir
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posted 16 June 2004 12:34 PM      Profile for mjollnir        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

...through a particular prism....


Damn that wavelength dependent refractive index!

Anyhoo, if corruption doesn't exist in Israel (God forbid that it does), where do Hamas and Co buy their weapons from, perhaps Mars?

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: mjollnir ]


From: NY | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 16 June 2004 12:37 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
Let me try for a third time. I did not say Israeli society was corrupt. I said it was rampant with corruption, i.e, there's lot of corruption running through the political and financial system. I did not say Israelis or Jews were by nature corrupt, which is the only was to read your "racist" smear charge. And I'm so glad to see you extending even further your "objectively anti-semitic" analysis. [ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: josh ]
Sorry Josh but that is your explanation NOW. That is not what was in your original text. You know it and so does everyone else here.

I accept this explanation but lets be clear, had i not challenged it, many reading this board, lurkers and others, could very well have gotten the wrong idea.

That is what I mean by sensitivity to language, that is what I mena when I ask that Babblers engage in civil discourse about Israel. The use of generalized language that can be read to demonize Israel and Israellis is what many in my community see when some otherwise sensitive folk target Israel with rhetorical venom.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: Macabee ]


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 June 2004 12:40 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You know it and so does everyone else here.

I knew what he meant the first time, as would most people who are familiar with the English language, so enough with the loose generalizations about "everybody."

You don't speak for "everybody."


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 June 2004 12:44 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Sorry Josh but that is your explanation NOW. That is not what was in your original text. You know it and so does everyone else here.

What the hell are you talking about? He hasn't even edited his original text?

You're flying off the handle even though he explained himself. And his explanation has been the same ever since he first noticed what you had written in response to him.

It is I who was mistaken, which I realized when I read skdadl's post - and then I smacked myself in the forehead for reacting to your hissy fit. If you can't accept josh's explanation, then I'm sorry you feel that way, but I've accepted it, and contrary to your assertion, the fact is, everyone else in this thread so far has accepted it as well.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 16 June 2004 12:46 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Sorry Josh but that is your explanation NOW. That is not what was in your original text. You know it and so does everyone else here.

I accept this explanation but lets be clear, had i not challenged it, many reading this board, lurkers and others, could very well have gotten the wrong idea.

That is what I mean by sensitivity to language, that is what I mena when I ask that Babblers engage in civil discourse about Israel. The use of generalized language that can be read to demonize Israel and Israellis is what many in my community see when some otherwise sensitive folk target Israel with rhetorical venom.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: Macabee ]


I don't have to give explanations for everything I post to satisfy your neurosis. And stop projecting your paranoia on to everyone else. I think it's safe to say that no one but you who read it carefully, read it that way.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 16 June 2004 01:01 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
By any standard, Israeli society is rampant with corruption.

And you all feel here that in this simple statement Josh was referring NOT to Israel and Israelis but to, as Josh puts it NOW;

quote:
the political and financial system
No where does he mention the political and financial system, NOWHERE!!!!

But clearly, many here can not even bring themseleves to see that they are making excuses for Josh who originall engaged in rhetoric that unfairly (at best) targeted an ENTIRE nation not just segments within that nation. That is one of the reasons why many many Jews see some on the left as being anti-Israel.

For the record here is how society is defined. For the purposes of what Josh was trying to impart:

quote:
so·ci·e·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-s-t)
n. pl. so·ci·e·ties

The totality of social relationships among humans.
A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.
The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group.


Dictionary

Sorry folks but I see no mention of a political and financial system. Do you?

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: Macabee ]


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 16 June 2004 01:03 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
There are jews who knowingly or not enagage in anti-Semitic rhetoric. It may not be their aim but it is the ultimate consequence.

Is "everybody" accepting what seems to be a slanderous sneaky dig at josh? This post seems to be to be a violation of babble policy. A familar one, if I am not mistaken.

Especially consider the following appear a handful of post above Mishabee's!

quote:
Mishei already knows Josh is Jewish, although he expressed doubt about it when Josh told him so.

As for this:

quote:
Yes Michelle people wonder why some here go to any lengths they can to demonize Israel and Israelis.

Same old bullshit. The accusation that folks are engaging in demonizing without proof or naming names is out of bounds. He knows it, but he still does it and he gets away with it. He drags babble into the muck with every post.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 June 2004 01:05 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And this is supposed to be a thread about Ariel Sharon, anyway.

Thoughts on Sharon, Macabee?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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Babbler # 3469

posted 16 June 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think critics of Israel can sometimes take their language further than they need to, and I've said so in the past. Does that give me any extra gravitas when I say that you're really and truly barking up the wrong tree here Macabee? And whittling away your own credibility in the process?

By any standard, Latin American society is rife* with macho.

By any standard, Japanese society is rife with formal ritual.

By any standard, Russian society is rife with organized crime.

By any standard, British society is rife with classism.

By any standard, my fridge is rife with old leftovers.

By any standard, my tub is rife with soap scum.

How else could, or should, you say it?

* changed slightly, for the benefit of Skdadl


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 16 June 2004 01:13 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are we writing informal posts here, or dissertations, Macabee? If we all had to meet Webster's standard on everything we wrote, we'd all be in trouble. Besides, isn't the dictionary the last refuge of a frustrated poster?
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 June 2004 01:13 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
By any standard, British society is rife with classism.

Boy, you can say that again.

And you should see what lagatta is saying about Italian society all over this board, every chance she gets.

(I'd like to take credit, Mr Magoo, but as you will see from a post above, credit really is due Wingy.)


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 16 June 2004 01:21 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:

Yes Michelle people wonder why some here go to any lengths they can to demonize Israel and Israelis. People wonder why others go to further lengths to defend them.

Which people? Other than the seventeen sock puppets you represent along with the authors of articles who throw out accusations without ever providing a definition of the guilt they claim lies with people they never name. And as far as I know, none of those authors has ever been to babble.

You leap on anything you can remotely claim as anti-semitism and then attempt to smear an entire community with it. You're the one making unfair generalizations here and it's as reprehensible as it is tiresome.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 16 June 2004 01:24 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thread destroyed. Mishtion accomplished. Well done.

There is a chance that this isn't over. I realize that by pushing for an indictment against Ariel Sharon, I am engaging in vile antisemitism. I guess I just can't help myself. I also realize that I am doing a disservice by not tracking down every case of corruption in the surrounding barbaric Arab states. You missed that point earlier, Mishibee. Glad to help your witchhunt.

quote:
An anti-corruption watchdog group petitioned the High Court Wednesday to overturn the decision by Attorney General Menachem Mazuz to drop a bribery case against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

The petition was filed by the Movement for Quality Government a day after Mazuz announced that he was closing his investigation, saying he lacked evidence to charge Sharon in the so-called Greek island affair and asked to disclose a series of documents written on the subject by former State Prosecutor, Edna Arbel.

In response, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz announced Wednesday that he would disclose the complete set of recommendations written by former State Prosecutor Arbel, including a draft she wrote intending to indict Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his son, Gilad in the Greek Island bribery affair.

"The attorney general overstepped his authority and, in effect, turned himself into a court, while applying different criteria to the prime minister that to an average citizen," the movement claimed in its petition.


What Mazuz never mentioned

quote:
Mazuz repeatedly emphasized that Appel handed over the large sums of money to Gilad while his father was in the opposition. However, the largest sums of money reached the Sycamore Ranch bank accounts after Sharon became prime minister. On March 3, 2001, Sharon junior received NIS 187,200 from Ziviyon, a company owned by Appel, and in the next three months, another NIS 280,000 flowed into the Sharon family's accounts. Nowhere in the Mazuz report are those figures mentioned.

NIS 467,000! That's quite a bonus for a new employee.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 16 June 2004 01:38 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
And this is supposed to be a thread about Ariel Sharon, anyway.

Thoughts on Sharon, Macabee?


Personally he is no hero of mine.

As for the other accusations, my comments are focused on a statement Josh posted here that I feel unfairly targeted Israel and Israelis. I then critisized those who choose to defend Josh's statement. If this is against babble policy for me to critisize and voice an opinion I have to say that it would be a real assault on the ideals of this Board which include , I thought, the freedom to engage, debate etc. I have provided my ideas and am open to the usual rants I receive. But to claim that one can no longer critisize those who I see as attacking Israel and Israelis unjustifiably is ridiculous.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 16 June 2004 01:43 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
By any standard, Latin American society is rife* with macho.

By any standard, Japanese society is rife with formal ritual.

By any standard, Russian society is rife with organized crime.

By any standard, British society is rife with classism.

By any standard, my fridge is rife with old leftovers.

By any standard, my tub is rife with soap scum.

How else could, or should, you say it?

* changed slightly, for the benefit of Skdadl


With the exception of organized crime in Russia (and even there it is understood that it refers to a segment of Russina society) the others are not poisonous traits.

To claim that a society is rampant with corruption refers in my mind to an entire society. It is hard to pint to any one segment in that society. Indeed Josh qualified it later but m,ost would not necessarily (with the exception of some here) seen it that way.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 June 2004 01:50 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Class discrimination in Britain is not poisonous?

Boy, try living there for a while. Get to know some young people from the tougher parts of London or from the Midlands. And it is way better now than it used to be.

I mean, class discrimination is awful and poisonous everywhere. But some European societies, the Brits included, raised it to a high art, and I doubt that there is a progressive about from any of those societies who wouldn't admit that.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 16 June 2004 02:02 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The same applies to machismo - especially when multiplied by classism and anti-aboriginal or anti-Black racism - in many Latin American societies. Just think of the hundreds of unsolved murders of young Maquiladora workers - pretty young girls with "dark skin" (i.e. Aboriginal blood). Or the persecution of gays, often by the police, even in supposedly democratic societies in that part of the world. Few things are more toxic than those that produce persecution and mass murder.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595

posted 16 June 2004 02:08 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I have provided my ideas and am open to the usual rants I receive.

The problem in a nutshell.

You think you have "ideas" and that the rest of babble* have "rants".

*minus your previous aliases, sock puppets and groupies.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 16 June 2004 02:15 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Do you have any other evidence to consider? If not let the system run as it should. Israel has not shyed away, in the past from indicting government officials when it had the evidence to do so.

I took this as a riposte, a setup, a trap. I know how you wanted me to answer that post, and I'm sorry that I used facts, knowledge, and specific evidence (re: Gilad and Appel) to thwart your intentions.

Perhaps you had other motives. With your latest Macabee identity, you have cried wolf so often that it is all we expect of you now. Babblers are not being paranoid about you when 99% of your comments are related to the near non-existant 'phenomena' of anti-semitism in babbler's posts. We are being sensible.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 02:59 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

The problem in a nutshell.

You think you have "ideas" and that the rest of babble* have "rants".

*minus your previous aliases, sock puppets and groupies.


When facts are ignored, or conveniently selected, and people go around making these kind of statements (Israel is rampant with corruption), ignoring for example the Transparency International study (here's the link again: http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2003/2003.10.07.cpi.en.html ), what would be the correct label?


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 June 2004 03:06 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And what are your thoughts on Sharon, GhostOne?

Just a friendly reminder of the topic of the thread.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 16 June 2004 03:10 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let's see Ghost... your "palestinian blood loving society" vs. josh's "rampant corruption".

"blood loving society"..."rampant corruption".

Gosh, these Middle East threads are a bearcat to figure out!


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 03:14 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
You can't dip your hands in blood and expect to come out clean.

This is the kind of depiction I would expect to find on the other side of the political spectrum.

You would have a much better chance of getting your (somewhat valid) point across if you avoided the use of such language.

Many, many, Israelis are saying that occupation, in the long run, leads to moral corruption. (Beilin and Sarid are just two examples)

I wonder if any studies have been done as there are many historical examples of extended (hundreds of years) occupation.


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 03:16 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Let's see Ghost... your "palestinian blood loving society" vs. josh's "rampant corruption".

"blood loving society"..."rampant corruption".

Gosh, these Middle East threads are a bearcat to figure out!



I took my words back and apologized.
Do two wrongs make right?
Regrettably, in the heat of the argument, I lost my patience and became angry. If this is the case for the other post too I'll accept the poster's apology.


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 16 June 2004 03:18 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:

I took this as a riposte, a setup, a trap. I know how you wanted me to answer that post, and I'm sorry that I used facts, knowledge, and specific evidence (re: Gilad and Appel) to thwart your intentions.

Perhaps you had other motives. With your latest Macabee identity, you have cried wolf so often that it is all we expect of you now. Babblers are not being paranoid about you when 99% of your comments are related to the near non-existant 'phenomena' of anti-semitism in babbler's posts. We are being sensible.



99%...rather high, nonetheless I will continue to point out each time poisoned words are obsessively used to demonize Israel and Israelis.

Is it so difficult to use civility when targeting a people or a nation? Can one not engage in disagreeing with Sharon or Israel policy without poison and invective? If not why not?

Do you know (just as an aside) that Israel is the only democratic state PERMANANTLY disallowed from joining the UN Human Rights Committee. Libya can Chair the group and such human rights abuser regimes as China, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Yemen, have been welcomed. These issues , and coupled with the creation of a posioned atmosphere against Israelis is ugly, just ugly.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 03:23 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
And what are your thoughts on Sharon, GhostOne?

Just a friendly reminder of the topic of the thread.


I really, really, don't like Sharon. I think that someone that was found unsuitable to be minister of defense should never have been allowed to become prime-minister. I think that his actions are meant to further his own, right wing, political agenda with which I don't identify.

I am not intimately familiar with the facts here but I wouldn't be surprised if the allegations against Sharon are true. It still might be the case that there isn't enough evidence to go to court.


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 03:58 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And adding some colour to this discussion, in an online survey in an Israeli web site (Ya know, one of those quick web surveys):

Mazuz's arguments for closing the case are:
49% convincing.
51% not convincing.

9605 voters.


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 June 2004 04:05 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So: half-rife, half not!

Just like Canada!


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 16 June 2004 07:09 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by GhostOne:

Regrettably, in the heat of the argument, I lost my patience and became angry [, let slip my mask, and revealed myself to be not as balanced and objective in my views as I purport to be.]


No worries FirstDuppy; I encourage you to contact MacAbee. He's been very diligent and helpful in exposing babblers' inner antisemites, so maybe he can help you with your unconscious bigotry.

Cheers.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6109

posted 16 June 2004 07:27 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

No worries FirstDuppy; I encourage you to contact MacAbee. He's been very diligent and helpful in exposing babblers' inner antisemites, so maybe he can help you with your unconscious bigotry.

Cheers.

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


Hopefuly most people here will see through this kind of empty rhetoric. Go look for your justification somewhere else. Masks, eh?

[ 16 June 2004: Message edited by: GhostOne ]


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brant K
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5831

posted 16 June 2004 07:37 PM      Profile for Brant K     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah, the ever helpful Mr. Al Qa'eda, oops, bong.

He who hopes the jooz will once again be driven from "the area".

The bigotry is quite conscious, no need for a mask.


From: Van | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 16 June 2004 09:12 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Ah, the ever helpful Mr. Al Qa'eda, oops, bong.

My my, that's quite the zinger! Did you make that connexion all by yourself or did anyone have to help you?

*lying prostrate, begging forgiveness for feeding troll*


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 17 June 2004 12:27 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sharon Case Splits Israeli Press

quote:
The announcement by the Israeli Attorney General Menachem Mazuz that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will not face corruption charges in the so-called "Greek island affair" sparks a heated debate in the Israeli press.

One daily says Mr Sharon can now "walk tall", but another believes a "Greek tragedy" still awaits him in the form of the problems facing his government.

Several papers also worry about the fallout from the case for public confidence in the Israeli legal system.


(emphasis mine).

Just as with the joke of police internal investigations here in BC, and IDF internal investigations, I have zero confidence in the impartiality of the Attorney General in this matter.

Whether someone leaned on him or he engaged in an act of self-censorship, it doesn't matter. If he cannot justify his decision to the satisfaction of the electorate, then he's either an incompetent boob or a shameless bootlicking lackey.

I'd prefer to ascribe this to stupidity rather than malice, because at least then I could say that Sharon just hit a dud on his Atty-Gen, rather than say that he knowingly picked someone who would fold up when threatened with the possibility of needing to prefer charges against his boss.

Sharon won’t be indicted, can court opposition

quote:
jerusalem -- Israel's attorney general dropped a corruption case against Ariel Sharon yesterday, ending months of uncertainty over the prime minister's political future and boosting prospects for an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip next year.

Attorney General Meni Mazuz said in a statement that he would not indict Sharon on charges of taking bribes. He said the evidence "does not bring us anywhere close" to being sufficient for a conviction.


BEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. EEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS.

[ 17 June 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 19 June 2004 08:30 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
More commentary - Mazuz' decision undermines the entire Ministry of Justice

quote:
Yet even if one presumes that he reached his conclusions in good faith, one cannot help but wonder at his judgment: Why didn't he understand that by leveling these accusations at Arbel and her staff, he was undermining the cogency of his reasoned opinion. It makes him come across as someone who set himself a target - refuting her conclusions - rather than examining the case solely on its merits. Why didn't he find the right balance between his anger at Arbel for trying to impose her opinion on him by leaving her draft indictment on his desk and the severe impact his outburst will have on the public's trust in the State Prosecutor and the Supreme Court? After all, isn't showing sound judgment the first test of an attorney general?

Mazuz's decision is full of gaps. After reading it, noted criminal law expert Prof. Mordechai Kremnitzer said yesterday that it could well have led to the opposite conclusion. Academics in the legal field believe that some of Mazuz's conclusions are not incontrovertibly supported by the evidence, and they question what appears to be his acceptance at face value of the testimonies of Ariel Sharon and Gilad Sharon. In this view, Mazuz is showing traces of a syndrome that affects more than a few judges: They place excessive trust in the words of VIPs and do not subject them to the same type of scrutiny as they would the testimony of ordinary citizens.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 19 June 2004 03:43 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He could also be showing traces of another syndrome: The unwillingness to bite the guy leaning on him because he knows his job could be at risk if he proceeds with charges.

It wouldn't be the first time some powerful person has gotten off scot-free because he or she controls the people who have the legal power to proceed with charges and court proceedings.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 19 June 2004 04:08 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
He could also be showing traces of another syndrome: The unwillingness to bite the guy leaning on him because he knows his job could be at risk if he proceeds with charges.

It wouldn't be the first time some powerful person has gotten off scot-free because he or she controls the people who have the legal power to proceed with charges and court proceedings.



Isn't "scot-free" an ethnic slur?

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 19 June 2004 04:16 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:

Isn't "scot-free" an ethnic slur?

Hell, no.

The Scots tend to be sorta proud of that sort of talent. We invented blackmail, y'know.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 19 June 2004 04:54 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Isn't "scot-free" an ethnic slur?

Christ on a crutch!

Macabee, this is the stupidest, most moronic comment I've ever seen you make, EVER. Do you really have so little to contribute to the discussion that all you can do is nitpick about a word?

scot-free is defined thus: "Free from payment of scot; untaxed; hence, unhurt; clear; safe. Do as much for this purpose, and thou shalt pass scot-free."


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 19 June 2004 05:29 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

Christ on a crutch!

Macabee, this is the stupidest, most moronic comment I've ever seen you make, EVER. Do you really have so little to contribute to the discussion that all you can do is nitpick about a word?

scot-free is defined thus: "Free from payment of scot; untaxed; hence, unhurt; clear; safe. Do as much for this purpose, and thou shalt pass scot-free."


Learn something new everyday. Seems neither Skdadl or I had this information. Thanks for enlightening me. I have 2 friends of Scottish decent who constantly would remind us that "Scot-free" was derogatory. Can't wait to tell them how wrong they are.

From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 20 June 2004 10:13 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
According to Ha'aretz and in stark contradiction to many Babblers on this thread, it seems this case is far from over.High Court may force reopening of Greek Island case

Shame the Israeli justice system seems to work. This must come as sad news to some here.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 20 June 2004 10:14 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Doing some fishing this morning. Macabee?
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 20 June 2004 10:28 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Learn something new everyday. Seems neither Skdadl or I had this information. Thanks for enlightening me. I have 2 friends of Scottish decent who constantly would remind us that "Scot-free" was derogatory. Can't wait to tell them how wrong they are.

Oh, Mac -- get a sense of humour.

And I'd love to meet those friends of yours of Scots descent who apparently don't have any either.

Highlanders were famous outlaws. The Highlands were rife with outlawry. Outlawry was rampant in the Highlands.

And most Scots are damn proud of the fact, too!


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 20 June 2004 10:41 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:

Oh, Mac -- get a sense of humour.

And I'd love to meet those friends of yours of Scots descent who apparently don't have any either.

Highlanders were famous outlaws. The Highlands were rife with outlawry. Outlawry was rampant in the Highlands.

And most Scots are damn proud of the fact, too!


Skdadl, you should also read with a less critical eye. I was trying to be light. I did noit mean this as a negative retort at all. In fact I am more than pleased to have learned this definition.

Having spent a few moths studying in Glasgow, Scotland is one of my favorite places anywhere.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 20 June 2004 01:49 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
And I'd love to meet those friends of yours of Scots descent who apparently don't have any either.

Aye; dour Scots.

The founders of The Dominion, and of our banking system.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 20 June 2004 02:05 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
First of all, Macabee, that's a "MAY" reopen, not "WILL" reopen. Second of all, whether it does or doesn't, the damage has been done - the stink of political interference in a properly police-judicial process will not go away.

It would be like John Ashcroft refusing to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate substantiated allegations against George Bush, and simply dismissing any and all proceedings. That would be clear political interference to protect his boss.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 20 June 2004 06:28 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

Aye; dour Scots.

The founders of The Dominion, and of our banking system.


Not to mention the telephone and penicillin


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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