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Author Topic: $300,000 per family to move out of Gaza
aRoused
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Babbler # 1962

posted 12 June 2004 11:29 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CBC story

quote:
Israel's evacuation of Gaza and some settlements of the West Bank could cost over $2 billion US, with each settler family receiving average compensation packages of $300,000, according to Israeli media reports.

I presume, of course, that similar amounts will be made available to those people displaced since 1948?

Oh, wait, there I go criticizing Israel again, how antisemitic of me.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
mjollnir
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posted 12 June 2004 02:33 PM      Profile for mjollnir        Edit/Delete Post
Similar amount should be allocated, so long as it is coupled with the right of return (the money shouldn't be a buy-out)

and the tab of 150billion must be picked by the whole world.

[ 12 June 2004: Message edited by: mjollnir ]


From: NY | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 12 June 2004 02:47 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jesus Christ on a crutch.

I knew it would cost a lot of money to get the settlers out thanks to the Israeli Government's own misguided policies in the first place, but $300k per settler?!!??!

That's nuts. The Israeli Government subsidized the original movement of these settlers into the Occupied Territories, giving them virtually free land and housing, and no-cost infrastructure hookups. And now it has to pay again to take them back out?

Sheesh. People just never seem to realize what a good deal the government gives them and want even more. (Oops, did I just describe every big corporate welfare bum? Silly me. )


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 13 June 2004 05:27 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, per family, but still.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Big Willy
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posted 13 June 2004 06:55 PM      Profile for Big Willy        Edit/Delete Post
This is a very good move; slowly the Israel government is taking away the “reason” used by the terrorist and their many anti-Semitic defenders in the west.

Interestingly I would like to point out that terrorist attacks within Israel have seemed to have ended since the assassinations of leaders of terrorist organizations. Although the government was criticized then they clearly did the right thing.


From: The West | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 13 June 2004 08:07 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sadly, the terrorist acts of the racist, Apartheid regime continue unabated:

Israeli army stated demolition Jerusalem homes

quote:
This is not an isolated case in the northwestern region of Jerusalem where the construction of the wall started 4 months ago. On Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 4am, the Israeli military demolished the two-storey house of 25 year-old Rami Nazih Shamasny. The young man had built the home he was planning to move in after his wedding. The house was completely destroyed by the Israeli military.

And hopefully, in time, there will be legally constitued courts and trials for the leaders of this inhuman, racist state.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Big Willy
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posted 13 June 2004 09:12 PM      Profile for Big Willy        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:

And hopefully, in time, there will be legally constitued courts and trials for the leaders of this inhuman, racist state.


Hopefully the terrorist organizations will stop killing citizens of the middle east only democratic nation. Hopefully the Palestinian people will be happy with a home land in the West Bank and Gaza. Hopefully Israel will be able to stop taking drastic measures in its defence.


From: The West | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 June 2004 12:27 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hopefully the Palestinian people will be happy with a home land in the West Bank and Gaza.

If any are left alive there to inhabit such a state, maybe they would be happy with that.

Right now a lot of them are happy to be able to eat and not have their homes destroyed by bulldozers.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 14 June 2004 12:33 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hopefully the terrorist organizations will stop killing citizens of the middle east only democratic nation. Hopefully the Palestinian people will be happy with a home land in the West Bank and Gaza. Hopefully Israel will be able to stop taking drastic measures in its defence.

I share your hope that the terrorist state will stop killing Palestinian civilans. I share your hope that Palestinian democracy will find root in the Apartheid state. I share your hope that Israel will stop its drastic terrorist assualts and join with their Palestinains neighbours in peace while ending their racist regime.

Maybe we can pray together for our common hope?


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Big Willy
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posted 14 June 2004 11:47 AM      Profile for Big Willy        Edit/Delete Post
I pray alone, but similar prays by other are always as good thing.
From: The West | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 June 2004 12:04 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Big Willy:
I pray alone, but similar prays by other are always as good thing.

"Paging Professor Starbuck."


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 14 June 2004 06:31 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Big Willy:

Hopefully the terrorist organizations will stop killing citizens of the middle east only democratic nation.

You know, Lebanon is at least as democratic. When you count the fact that Lebanon doesn't have a million or so disenfranchised people in territory it controls, Lebanon is more democratic.
But the whole democratic thing is a bit of a red herring. Imagine telling the people of Nicaragua they shouldn't be annoyed that the US paid mercenaries to kill them, torture and rape, destroy and pillage and burn and massacre--because the US is democratic! Oh, well, that's all right then!

Is it really better to democratically decide to oppress and murder? Can we really expect Palestinians to not mind being herded into overcrowded camps, having their houses bulldozed, losing their freedom of movement, getting shot and bombed, losing their land, their farms, their livelihoods, their access to water--because Israel is a democracy? This is called a category error.

If anything, if you took the "democracy" logic to its implications, it would *justify* terrorism against civilians. If Israel were a dictatorship, it would be wrong for Palestinians to blame the citizens of Israel for the vile treatment they are undergoing; the dictator would be to blame, the people helpless. But Israel is a democracy. That means the people of Israel are complicit in the state's actions--they are ultimately the decision makers, responsible for what happens. Which, if you're gonna be so exercised all the time about how important it is to the conflict that Israel is a democracy, arguably makes them fair game. Personally, I wouldn't go that far. But geeze--plenty of nasty people have been elected, and plenty of evil things have been done by elected governments. What you look at is the things done, not the governmental form.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 15 June 2004 03:13 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But Israel is a democracy. That means the people of Israel are complicit in the state's actions--they are ultimately the decision makers, responsible for what happens.

Save it. I raised this point a while back and it was loudly ignored.

The Mishei faction was going through its usual routine of demonizing the Arab world, so I mentioned that the people in many of these countries are living under oppressive dictatorships, and so have little power to change things, whereas the Israelis elect war criminals as their leaders.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 15 June 2004 04:35 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On these threads, loudly ignored is an improvement.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Publically Displayed Name
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posted 15 June 2004 06:05 PM      Profile for Publically Displayed Name        Edit/Delete Post
Question for the board:

Is there anything actually wrong about giving settler families 300k per to move out of the settlements?

Seems like a positive step to me.


From: Canada | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 June 2004 08:45 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If anything, if you took the "democracy" logic to its implications, it would *justify* terrorism against civilians.

That's a very good point Rufus. However, it does make me a little uncomfortable.
In my opinion, George Bush is a war criminal. Does that mean that the American public deserved the terrorist attacks of September 11, just because a large number of them voted for the asshole?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
GhostOne
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posted 15 June 2004 09:05 PM      Profile for GhostOne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

That's a very good point Rufus. However, it does make me a little uncomfortable.
In my opinion, George Bush is a war criminal. Does that mean that the American public deserved the terrorist attacks of September 11, just because a large number of them voted for the asshole?


I guess with Canadian troops in Afghanistan you should definitely be concerned. Not to mention that specific threats against Canada have already been made. Even though I did not support the war against Iraq I'm afraid I'll have to pay the price. My apologies in advance for my rough style of discussion but I think the originator of this line of argument would be better off withdrawing it.


From: Delta, BC | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 15 June 2004 11:54 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Publically Displayed Name:
Question for the board:

Is there anything actually wrong about giving settler families 300k per to move out of the settlements?

Seems like a positive step to me.


It's just that it's a monumental waste of money in the first place. The Israeli Government would get more respect from me on this move if it included an outright admission that the reason they're wasting good taxpayer money on this is because they created this mess in the first place.

[ 15 June 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Publically Displayed Name
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Babbler # 5642

posted 16 June 2004 12:47 AM      Profile for Publically Displayed Name        Edit/Delete Post
Okay, but if the Israeli gov't is finding an effective way to get the settleres the frig out of there, do they really need to earn your respect, too?

Just saying that this issue (in this thread) seems to be attracting heat to the Israeli gov't when they're actually doing something right. Positive reinforcement might be too much to ask, but vocal negative reactions to positive steps seem counter productive.


From: Canada | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 16 June 2004 02:45 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What's the other shoe left to drop?

The settlers use their money to rebuild in Hebron?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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