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Author Topic: A unique perspective on Israel
Rodney Moore
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Babbler # 5737

posted 18 May 2004 02:33 AM      Profile for Rodney Moore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On pacificnews.org some months ago I read an article by a Palestinian ex-pat. he called for Israel to keep all of the Occupied Territories(Gaza and the West Bank) and to extend to Palestinians in those territories full Israeli citizenship. He admited that both sides don't really like his idea, but he spoke on how South Africa likewise had homelands for Native Africans, many of whom were dispossesed of land. He calls for a multi-ethnic(jewish and Arab) Israel.

I've mentioned this to Jewish friends who are dual citizens and they flat out rejected the idea. "Israel would cease to be a Jewish state" is their answer. And for the life of me I cannot be see this answer as racist. Palestinians want not only the Occupied Territories, but the right to return for those refugees. And many of the Palestinian groups want all of Palestine(aka Israel) to be their homeland.

While I would prefer that the United States disengage from the Middle East and stop supporting Israel in any capacity. I have some glimmer of hope that peace can be achieved. But all ideas need to be on the table.

I understand the anger of the Palestinians, and I agree with them. I see the PLO in the same like as the ANC, but there has to be more options on the table then what we now have.


From: New Orleans, Louisiana, USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 18 May 2004 02:39 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm of two minds about this (from a moral standpoint). On the one hand, the justice side of this is clear: giving the Palestinians citizenship is to me soon going to be the only geographically practical solution. The settlers continue to guarantee this.

On the other hand, I do sympathize with the desire for a Jewish state. I dunno if it is compatible with justice for the Palestinians, but I know where they are coming from.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rodney Moore
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posted 18 May 2004 03:01 AM      Profile for Rodney Moore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What I disagree with in regards to having a "Jewish State" is that there were people already there. During several wars many Palestinians were expelled and Israel fluctuated between defense and ethnic cleansing.

I look at Israel in the same light as I do South Africa. South Africa was founded by Afrikaaner and French Calvinists who left Europe to seek religious freedom. Many of the Franco-Afrikaaners were slaughered in France, then they lives stateless going to Holland then to South Africa. Afrikaaners experience and religiosity mirrors the Zionists. But Afrikaaners like Zionists founded their nation in a war, and many of the indegenous people were ethnically cleansed or pushed out of their land.

The two state solution doesn't make any sense. Because a great many Palestinians work in Israel proper, and many families would be separated by a New Iron Curtain/ Apartheid wall.

I rember back when Ehud Barak stood for election and there was an Arab-Israeli who also ran for Prime Minister.

If all the current Palestinians were intergrated and right of return to Palestinians was gradually introduced, Israel would maintain a Jewish majority.

I am not in any position of power so this idea is mine alone. I only wish more people had the same idea.


From: New Orleans, Louisiana, USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 May 2004 03:47 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So is it OK to have Islamic states? And why is it that there's never a state controlled by moderate Islam? Maybe because moderate Islam doesn't think it should control the state.

Would it be OK for the US to become a Christian state? I've noticed that every step they take in that direction is a bad one. And empowers the worst elements of Christianity.

States with religious orientations that have a practical effect on life are bad for both the state and for the state religion as a religion rather than an instrument of oppression. Separation of religion and state is an important element of democracy. Some states get along with theoretical state religions, just like many states are fine with a constitutional monarch. But if it has any effect on the political life of the state, it is bad.

Israel being a Jewish state is bad for Israel and bad for Judaism.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 18 May 2004 04:11 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
On pacificnews.org some months ago I read an article by a Palestinian ex-pat. he called for Israel to keep all of the Occupied Territories(Gaza and the West Bank) and to extend to Palestinians in those territories full Israeli citizenship. He admited that both sides don't really like his idea, but he spoke on how South Africa likewise had homelands for Native Africans, many of whom were dispossesed of land. He calls for a multi-ethnic(jewish and Arab) Israel.

The idea of single unified non-discriminatory state is not very new. It was in fact the platform of the PLO when it was founded in 1964. The two state solution is and always has been the one put forward by the Israeli's. That is what partition was about in 1948.

Palestinian acceptance of a two state solution was part of the Arafat's historic compromise to the Israel when he recognized Israels 'right to exist,' as part fo the Oslo accords.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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