babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


  
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » archived babble   » the middle east and central asia   » Israeli minister wants Israeli-Arabs expelled

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Israeli minister wants Israeli-Arabs expelled
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 10 May 2004 04:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Transportation Minister Avigdor Lieberman said during an interview with the Israeli army radio (Gali Tzahal) on Sunday the "Arabs of Israel" should be expelled if a Palestinian state was established and Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip were dismantled.

Lieberman, a former Moldovan immigrant who arrived in Israel in 1978, suggested that the existence of a large non-Jewish minority in Israel threatened the "Jewish identity" and "ethnic purity" of Israel.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2776

posted 10 May 2004 06:19 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Link?
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 11 May 2004 12:21 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If that is what he said then it is disgusting.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 569

posted 11 May 2004 02:25 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Al Jazeera appears to be the source.
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 11 May 2004 02:28 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Minus the overt racism, something similar was quoted in the Jerusalem Post. Pick your poison.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1084160740872


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 11 May 2004 02:33 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...the existence of a large non-Jewish minority in Israel threatened the "Jewish identity" and "ethnic purity" of Israel

Gee, I'm getting a fuzzy feeling all over remembering how dear ol' Mishei used to coo "Jewish character" to us, as he railed against the right of return and the demographic bombs the Arabs were carrying under their unmentionables...


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 11 May 2004 03:44 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I prefer to reserve the word "character" for inanimate objects. Much less emotional content that way, since the pronounced directional character of hybridized orbitals is much less controversial.

While the above may seem like a bit of a hazy digression, it's meant to make a point: any discussion about the allegedly optimal ethnic/religious/racial "character" of a country or region is bound to run into the problem of assuming that everybody who wears a label thinks or acts a certain way.

Common such examples of lazy thinking are:

"All blacks are lazy welfare-sucking bums."
"All Palestinians are suicide bombers."
"All Jews are Zionists and will never advocate anything but (whatever)."

Mishei would refine that last a bit (in fairness he's never said anything about blacks, and I can't recall if he's been lazily slurring over the facts with respect to Palestinians so I'll let him get by on that one), and say "MOST" instead of "all", but he also made it quite clear that he believes such groups as the.. I forget the blasted name, but it's a non-Zionist, largely Jewish composition, peace-in-Israel movement - but anyway, he heaps scorn and disdain on it and claims that it's totally marginal.

Therefore he clearly is guilty of lazy thinking and assuming everyone who bears the label "Jewish" thinks the way he does.

Edit:

I got curious about this whole business about Mishei's past statements so I fired up the search function and got this thread.

Mishei also reveals a bit of lack of familiarity with the search function, so I should elaborate on that. As near as I understand it, your profile must be set to give you ALL messages in ALL forums without a date cutoff AND the search engine occasionally burps and returns zero search results even though you know you've used a word somwehere.

Anyway, the relevant comment by Mishei was this:

quote:
For the record I believe that the Palestinian "right of return" to ISRAEL, for all refugees with any family tie back to 1948 would mean the end of the Jewish state . I am fully against it.

However there can be some limited family reunification and there must be financial restitution. That is my position. Clear now?


Guess it's all right if the Israeli Government just tries to fob off a few bucks as adequate compensation, right?

[ 11 May 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5227

posted 11 May 2004 08:38 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am confused, since Al Jazeera, IMHO, is a questionable source at best, were these racist comments made or is cueball once again engaging in Israel-bashing by providing an erroneous story to get Babblers "Isarel hate meter" revved up?
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 11 May 2004 08:42 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What is a "reputable source" to you, Macabee? Is al-Jazeera not a reliable source because it's media owned by Arabs?

Could you please give us an Arab media source that is "reliable"? Or is it only Israeli and western media that is reliable?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 11 May 2004 09:11 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We have discussed racist and threatening comments made by Avigdor Lieberman before on babble. Anyone who wants a taste of the man's extreme rhetoric can go to Search and find two other threads from last year in the ME forum alone.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 11 May 2004 09:14 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
What is a "reputable source" to you, Macabee? Is al-Jazeera not a reliable source because it's media owned by Arabs?

Al-Jazeera is essentially the Arab equivalent of CNN- their coverage is slanted but not bald-faced lies.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 11 May 2004 09:16 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am more concerned, Michelle, with his refernece to "babble hate" when quite clearly the comments attributed, if accurate, are racist hate. Why is he more concerned about his invented "babble hate" than the expressed racist hate?

As for the accuracy, here is the sanitized version:

quote:
The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to separate the two nations and conduct a population exchange, National Union chairman Avigdor Lieberman told Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in their meeting Monday, Israel Radio reported.

Lieberman said all the land between the Jordan river and the Mediteranian sea should be re-divided in such a way that all the Jews are on one side and all the Arabs on the other side. The Cyprus model shows us that such a solution is successful, Lieberman said.


Jerusalem Post

Or maybe that is just Jerusalem Post hate.

[ 11 May 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 May 2004 11:15 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
More bon mots from Lieberman. Good thing he's the transportation minister, not defence minister.

quote:
Last Sunday, Lieberman, the notoriously radical leader of Israel's National Union Party, a member of the Likud-dominated coalition government of Premier Ariel Sharon, called for the Israeli military to attack Damascus.

The motivation for this wild call from the wilderness to unleash the destructive forces of the jungle was a Hizbullah attack against an Israeli commando team that had crossed the UN-demarcated Blue Line into Lebanon from its base in the occupied Shebaa Farms area. If Israel insists on continuing its occupation of Arab land, and continues to violate the territory of sovereign states, it must be prepared for retaliation and, consequently, for casualties. Widening the conflict, to tit-for-tat attacks and possibly to the point of full-scale war with Syria, would be nothing short of reckless at any time - but in the present climate it would be catastrophic for the entire world.


Why is it that Lieberman's more insane views don't get covered by Haaretz or the Jerusalem Post? I find these omissions quite telling...


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 11 May 2004 11:23 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah, yes, good ole Avigdor "Burn Damascus! Burn Beirut!" Lieberman. That was one of the lines we discussed last fall, I think.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Udo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5144

posted 11 May 2004 12:51 PM      Profile for Udo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
What is a "reputable source" to you, Macabee? Is al-Jazeera not a reliable source because it's media owned by Arabs?

Could you please give us an Arab media source that is "reliable"? Or is it only Israeli and western media that is reliable?


Actually it is not reliable when it reports a story in a manner that no one else does.

Your inisinuation that Macabee made his statement based on racism truly stinks. But I guess since he is pro-Israeli you would just assume he is racist.

[ 11 May 2004: Message edited by: Udo ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 11 May 2004 12:54 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nice quick edit there Macabee/Udo whatever.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 11 May 2004 12:55 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Udo:
Actually it is not reliable when it reports a story in a manner that no one else does.

Logical fallacy: appeal to popularity


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 11 May 2004 12:56 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I fucking saw that Udo. You responded as if Michelle had been addressing you. I've not gotten into the MisheMacaUdo thing because I didn't have any real proof. The two of you (if there are two) are tag-teaming each other and indulging in sock-puppetry that has no place in a reasonnable forum. Fuck off, both of you!
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4169

posted 11 May 2004 01:06 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you are going to use more than one ID Mishei and try to keep it secret, then you should be very careful to respond to the ID that is being addressed .
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 11 May 2004 01:09 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Udo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5144

posted 11 May 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for Udo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Macabbee and i are work colleagues and we post as we can. yes we can access each others name.

Nonethe less I should not have done so. So for the record I will leave Babble. So long it has been fun.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 May 2004 01:15 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some people never learn, it seems.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 11 May 2004 01:18 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure they are two different people. They had a "conversation" in one thread a while back, posting one right after the other from two different IP addresses. And people ARE allowed to tell their work colleagues and friends (and even spouses!) about babble and get them to join and post. So I have no problem with both Udo and Macabee posting on babble, although I think it's weird that they access each other's user accounts. It would be nice if they just used their own, and then this kind of confusion wouldn't happen.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 11 May 2004 01:20 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
So for the record I will leave Babble. So long it has been fun.

That would be one honourable and ethical thing to do, after insulting people here with that charade.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4169

posted 11 May 2004 01:34 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, there is nothing wrong with doing any of those things, but if you do, it is just common decency that would require you to inform those who are participating with you in the forum.

If I had a colleague, friend, or spouse posting here, taking my side in threads, I certainly would hope I would have the decency to let others know that my comments might be influenced by that relationship.

And if you don't think that a situation like this would have any effect on your opinion, then still, why hide the fact? Even when given every opportunity to come clean.

Oh well, some people's children!!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 May 2004 01:39 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, what about that Lieberman? He sure is a piece of work. Is he the Israeli equivalent of Le Pen?

[ 11 May 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 11 May 2004 01:49 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
I am confused...

'Nuff said.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 11 May 2004 01:51 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:
More bon mots from Lieberman. Good thing he's the transportation minister, not defence minister.

There's actually a punishing sort of irony to it...


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 11 May 2004 01:55 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Udo:
Macabbee and i are work colleagues and we post as we can. yes we can access each others name.

Nonethe less I should not have done so. So for the record I will leave Babble. So long it has been fun.


Familiar mood swing, fella.

As I recall, we've heard this song-o before-o: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=000868

[ 11 May 2004: Message edited by: Courage ]


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 11 May 2004 01:58 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Udo:
Macabbee and i are work colleagues ...

Another day, another spin...

All in a day's work, I suppose.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 11 May 2004 01:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by No Yards:
If I had a colleague, friend, or spouse posting here, taking my side in threads, I certainly would hope I would have the decency to let others know that my comments might be influenced by that relationship.

And if you don't think that a situation like this would have any effect on your opinion, then still, why hide the fact? Even when given every opportunity to come clean.


I don't know, I even disagree with this. I don't think we should have to disclose our personal relationships to other babblers if we don't want to. There have been cases of husbands and wives posting on babble without announcing for a long time that they're together.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 11 May 2004 02:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Courage:
There's actually a punishing sort of irony to it...

Avigdor Lieberman, the idiot, wants to privatize airports. We here in Canada can tell that guy how successful privatizing anything to do with air travel is - the damn companies keep coming back to the government because they wouldn't know what a profit was if they had a map and infrared glasses.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 11 May 2004 02:10 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyway. PS: Macabee and Udo sidebarred this whole thread into a discussion of some irrelevant topic. May we discuss the sloppiness of using the word "character" to describe a preferred ethnic/linguistic/religious/racial composition in a country or region?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 11 May 2004 03:17 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, its not like (t)he(y) won't be back.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 11 May 2004 03:37 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On the question of which is more reliable, the Al Jazeera or the Israeli media reports--near as I can make out there's nothing stopping them from both being correct.
For instance, the Jerusalem Post bit describes what Leiberman said, but (carefully?) does not actually quote him. The Al Jazeera seems to be direct quotes, not so? So if the Al Jazeera quotes what he said, and the Jerusalem Post give a general drift, there's no real contradiction there--the Jerusalem Post are just being, um, discreet. And what are newspapers for, if not being discreet, right?

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4169

posted 11 May 2004 03:57 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

I don't know, I even disagree with this. I don't think we should have to disclose our personal relationships to other babblers if we don't want to. There have been cases of husbands and wives posting on babble without announcing for a long time that they're together.


I suppose if they were actually of seperate minds, and didn't lie about it when confronted with the truth it wouldn't make much difference, but when they play the games that Macabee and Udo played, then there deception is a little more decitful and disrespectful than simply protection of privicy.

I'm not sying it should be a hanging (or even banning) offense, but it is pretty insulting the way these two used their ID's.

They never really had my respect, but now I know that that "gut feeling" for the lack of respect has been justified.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 11 May 2004 04:01 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess it's time for me to confess.

I am Rufus Polson. And one of us is married to Hinterland. Or is that Wingy? I get confused.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 11 May 2004 04:10 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I guess it's time for me to confess.
I am Rufus Polson. And one of us is married to Hinterland. Or is that Wingy? I get confused.

Not a confession, merely a reaffirmation of something that babblers have long known:

I'm Spartacus.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 May 2004 04:12 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, I'm Spartacus.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 11 May 2004 04:26 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Since we're confessing, I'm actually the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Why do you think I keep talking about cookies?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 11 May 2004 04:26 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm Macabee, too. Sorry. It was wrong. I am leaving now.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2776

posted 11 May 2004 05:28 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Not a confession, merely a reaffirmation of something that babblers have long known:

I'm Spartacus.


I'm Elia Kazan. That guy over there? He's Spartacus.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 11 May 2004 05:39 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"As Chairman of the Senate Un-Roman Activities Committee..."
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 12 May 2004 01:53 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You are actually all parts of my mind. You think you are independent persons, but this is just an illusion. Really this is all part of my schizophrenic meltdown.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 26 September 2004 05:05 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
May we have updates on the enthusiasm or lack of it in the Israeli Government for "Transfer"?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 27 September 2004 06:12 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sure...

Mayor to force Jerusalem's Arabs out

quote:
There are not many mayors in this world who make decisions pertaining to zoning and urban planning based on racial and sectarian considerations.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca