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Author Topic: Turkey accuses ally Israel of 'terrorism'
evenflow
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posted 25 March 2004 05:25 PM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
Turkey accuses ally Israel of 'terrorism'

quote:

Turkey, which has close ties with Israel, has accused the Jewish state of "terrorism" after the assasination of Hamas spiritual leader Shaikh Ahmad Yasin.

"This was a terrorism incident," Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as telling the mass-circulation newspaper Hurriyet on Thursday.

"We need to say what kind of terrorism this falls under. If we want peace in the Middle East, if we want to solve the issues, Israel first of all needs to abandon this kind of attitude. To me, this approach has cast a shadow over peace," Erdogan said.



From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
o
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posted 25 March 2004 05:37 PM      Profile for o     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ahh they can get in line..heard that before.
From: toronto | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 25 March 2004 08:18 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you agree with it, o?

It should be pause for consideration when nearly every nation condemns Israel's military practices.


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 25 March 2004 08:24 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There all a bunch of anti-semites, don't you know.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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posted 26 March 2004 12:49 PM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
Resolution condemning killing of Hamas leader defeated by US veto in Security Council

quote:
Following the vote, Algeria's Ambassador, Abdallah Baali, said the result was as if the Security Council concluded that it had no say in the terrible tragedy unfolding in that part of the world. "By not condemning the extrajudicial killing of Sheikh Yassin, the Security Council is not sending the right message to the world which has unanimously condemned this crime," he said.

Ambassador Baali added that the Council was not sending the right message to those who sincerely believed that it was the custodian of international law. "But it is certainly sending the wrong message to Israel, whose representative boasted two days ago in this very chamber about the crime and vowed to continue the unlawful policy of extrajudicial killings," he said.



From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 March 2004 06:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Ahh they can get in line..heard that before.

Point is see, that they have never done that before. As I tried to point out, Sharon's actions are even driving away Israels traditional allies, and helping to devide the world into Muslim and Judeo/Christian.

Continue down that road, in 20 years, Yassin prediction may come true, and there will not be much left of the middle east, including Israel. One suticase nuke in Tel Aviv and you have a pogrom on the level of New Belsen in less than a day.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
o
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posted 27 March 2004 04:19 PM      Profile for o     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball wrote ne suticase nuke in Tel Aviv and you have a pogrom on the level of New Belsen in less than a day. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't argue with that..truly scary..the only comfort ,if any, is that with Israels nuclear submarines at least we have second strike capability.

From: toronto | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 27 March 2004 04:35 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Within Turkey, the majority is said to support the strategy of a close relationship with Israel, but there was considerable dissent especially among Islamic-oriented sectors. That was before the present government got elected with only 35% popular support, thanks to Turkey's 10% threshold for parties to get into Parliament.

And I'm not certain how comfortable the non-clerical Muslim majority really were being allies with Israel. Without doing more research than I want to, it was partly based on mutual hostility with Syria.

So when Aljazeera says "Muslim Turkey has traditionally supported Palestinian aspirations to statehood but has strong military, commercial and diplomatic relations with Israel" this could be an overstatement.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 27 March 2004 06:33 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While I found the idea of targeting Yaseen not to my liking, the world is hypocritical.

Targeted killings have been standard fare and used by, the PA, Great Britain (duting their problems with the IRA), the United States, Russia, Cuba...I am sure there are more. And yet the world condemns Israel.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 27 March 2004 07:09 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Second strike capability? And against whom would it be lauched? Jerusalem? Gaza? Jenin? Cant launch without a legitimate target
From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 March 2004 07:57 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Targeted killings have been standard fare and used by, the PA, Great Britain (duting their problems with the IRA), the United States, Russia, Cuba...I am sure there are more. And yet the world condemns Israel.

I suppose babble's antisemitic minions reflect the Alice in Wonderland nature of the world as a whole.

My goodness; Jerry Adams' corpse is barely cold in the ground and we've forgotten about how he died. How can we forget the US air strike on Moscow that did away with Gorbachev? Castro's assassination of Kennedy was particularly heinous.

Sadly, the BS level around babble has undergone a vile and demonic increase in the last few days.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 27 March 2004 08:14 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by o:

Can't argue with that..truly scary..the only comfort ,if any, is that with Israels nuclear submarines at least we have second strike capability.

How comforting. The whole Middle East radioactive glass instead of just one city. Well, that's a weight off my mind.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 March 2004 11:05 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rufus:

I'm perfectly happy to condemn all those other nations that have engaged in "targeted" killings, Macabee. You seem to see them as an opportunity. Pity.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 March 2004 01:20 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Can't argue with that..truly scary..the only comfort ,if any, is that with Israels nuclear submarines at least we have second strike capability.

Where are you going to target your nuke. These are guerilla organizations. They still haven't got the 9/11 guy have they?

More falacies.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 28 March 2004 08:59 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Rufus:

I'm perfectly happy to condemn all those other nations that have engaged in "targeted" killings, Macabee. You seem to see them as an opportunity. Pity.


No I do not need your pity ma'am and I am surprised that without any proof other than your own conjecture you would just conclude that i see this as an "opportunity".

My point was more simple than that...people seem very quick to criticize Israel at the drop of hat...not so other nations that engage in similar behaviour...Im pleased you are prepared to condemn others. If only more were like you ..at least in that respect.


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 29 March 2004 12:02 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

We've been through this before - Israel gets more attention for very specific reasons, not the least of which is the cry: see, Israel is a liberal democracy in a sea of authoritarian states! (to paraphrase) If Israel were truly a liberal democracy, for all of the people living there (yes, even the Arabs living in the OT) then it would not stoop to illegal assassinations in the first place. There would be police arrests and judges and the like preceeding over the incarceration of known criminals. And there would be many fewer innocent people killed from both groups.

[ 29 March 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 March 2004 01:06 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Most of the world's condemnation was because this assassination is going to do nothing to help bring peace about, and will likely lead to an escalation.

The recent proposal by 60 leading Palestinians, advocating non-violent resistance, is throwing a spanner in the works. Sharon counts on an escalation to distract Israelis from his problems with the legal system.

Sharon's corruption is now the most prominent story coming out of Israel. Will Palestinians be able to maintain a non-violent position in the face of the Israeli attacks that are sure to come as Sharon gets more and more desperate?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 March 2004 01:20 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't think Israel gets undue attention. It is the Zionist who are always bringing it up. its not like militant nationalist chinese come out hunting for Tibet stories to complain about, and then go on and on and on rehashing the same old same old, again and again and again.

This web site is a case in point.

It makes you wonder if there is not some method to this constant stoking of the fire.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
o
rabble-rouser
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posted 29 March 2004 12:50 PM      Profile for o     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball wrote "I don't think Israel gets undue attention. It is the Zionist who are always bringing it up."

Ok, lets look at the recent posts on babble and their posters:

DO SOME ISRAELIS THINK... RUFUS P.

DEMANDS FOR SHARONS...DR. CONWAY

PALESTINIANS CALL FOR NON VIOLENT....JOSH

SHEIK YASSIN/PULLOUT...AROUSED

but the King of coming up with Israel posts is none other than...thats right! My pal CUEBALL:

PALESTINIAN BOY..CUEBALL

CHRONOLOGY...CUEBALL

YASSIN OFFERED30 YEAR...CUEBALL

Man, Cueball, you must be a big time Zionist..and good for you for finally seeing the light!

It's this disconnect with reality that causes the left to continually lose elections.


From: toronto | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 March 2004 04:52 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball you jerk. It's your fault.

Cut out that disconnection with reality why don't ya, and give the left a chance to win some elections.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 March 2004 04:57 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is a forum called "rabble reactions". It's the perfect place for Macabee and crowd to start the 468th discussion on babble about why Israel is such a hot topic of conversation.

But I'm getting pretty sick of these threads getting derailed with it. I can see that this is the whole point - to get the focus of the thread off the topic and onto petty bickering so that criticism of Israel is deflected. But this forum has not been provided for that purpose.

So I'm warning you, Macabee, take it to an appropriate thread and quit derailing every thread you enter with insinuations about people's motives behind talking about Israel.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
talkin2u
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posted 29 March 2004 10:14 PM      Profile for talkin2u        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

The recent proposal by 60 leading Palestinians, advocating non-violent resistance, is throwing a spanner in the works. Sharon counts on an escalation to distract Israelis from his problems with the legal system.


I think you're wrong (and believe me I'm a good socialist and no friend of Sharon). I think that non-violence would completely turn the situation around. Non-violent protest (replacing and not in tandem with terror) would alter the internal dynamic in Israel, would alter the international community and would offer the prospect of true and lasting peace. You see, in order to do this, the Arab Palestinians would implicity be agreeing that genocide and politicide are not the answers. If that is the case, then a deep withdrawal from the territories is possible. It also means that the region would have a hope.

I wish them the best of luck!


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 29 March 2004 11:46 PM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
So I'm warning you, Macabee, take it to an appropriate thread and quit derailing every thread you enter with insinuations about people's motives behind talking about Israel.

Please help me understand. Is it a Babble rule that I am not to have an opinion on what I believe may motivate posters on the issue of the Middle east?

Perhaps you can point to what rule i have violated to warrant this "warning". Or am I missing something?


From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 30 March 2004 12:01 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
the Arab Palestinians would implicity be agreeing that genocide and politicide are not the answers.

Some disgusting things have been said on babble, but this counts among the worst.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 30 March 2004 07:15 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macabee:
Please help me understand. Is it a Babble rule that I am not to have an opinion on what I believe may motivate posters on the issue of the Middle east?

Perhaps you can point to what rule i have violated to warrant this "warning". Or am I missing something?


You're trolling. You're sidetracking discussions in these threads with side issues that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. That's what rule you're violating.

And yes, you can have an opinion on what motivates posters to talk about the middle east. As I said quite clearly in the other post, start a new thread in rabble reactions if you want to talk about why so many people talk about Israel on babble. But quit sidetracking every thread in the Middle East forum with it.

And quit sidetracking this thread with further discussion of this. I'm not going to engage in a 50 post debate with you in this thread about it, because that will sidetrack the discussion as well.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Macabee
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posted 30 March 2004 08:29 AM      Profile for Macabee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you for your reasonable explanation.
From: Vaughan | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 March 2004 09:41 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Man, Cueball, you must be a big time Zionist..and good for you for finally seeing the light!

It's this disconnect with reality that causes the left to continually lose elections.


ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 30 March 2004 10:37 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by o:
Cueball wrote ne suticase nuke in Tel Aviv and you have a pogrom on the level of New Belsen in less than a day. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't argue with that..truly scary..the only comfort ,if any, is that with Israels nuclear submarines at least we have second strike capability.

Good attempt at bringing the thread back on topic . . . does anyone need any further evidence that Turkey's assessment of Israel is correct?

And I notice from your Babble bio you are living in Canada . . . can you clarify this "we" reference?

Another clarification please, the last I heard, neither Canada or Israel officially had nukes!!

So much information in so few words . . . you better be a little more careful though, revealing Israeli secrets has never been good for ones health.

[ 30 March 2004: Message edited by: No Yards ]


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 30 March 2004 10:49 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ask Mordechai Vanunu.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
talkin2u
rabble-rouser
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posted 30 March 2004 11:07 AM      Profile for talkin2u        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

Some disgusting things have been said on babble, but this counts among the worst.


Except that since the 1920s those have been the goals of most of the leadership of the Arab/Palestinian people (obviously politicide only became possible with the creation of the state of Israel). Abandoning the goal of pushing the Jews into the sea (I mean a real abandonment and not simply a "tactical" one) would mean that peace could come to the region.

Since most reasonable people are against mass murder and since most reasonable people do not advocate the destruction of UN member states and since most reasonable people want peace, I imagine that this would be reasonable and would work.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 30 March 2004 11:39 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is, of course, zionist bullshit.

Israel has the most poewrful, modern military in the region and is the only nation in the region with weapons of mass destruction and the willingness to use them.

It matters not what Palestinians think (and ascribing the thoughts of some to all is inherently racist) to Israel. Israel does not need to brutally occupy the West Bank and Gaza to insure security. It does not need to fund and support the fascist settlers stealing Palestinian lands and resources. It does not need to engage in endless demonization of all Palestinians as terrorists.

This is about one state, Israel, subjugating a people for control of land and resources. Tell your lies to placate your own conscience, but Israel, with your apologies and support, is engaged in a cruel and inhuman repression of people guilty of no crime but being on land coveted by Zionists for a Greater Israel.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 March 2004 11:40 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Abandoning the goal of pushing the Jews into the sea (I mean a real abandonment and not simply a "tactical" one) would mean that peace could come to the region.

Are not most peace agreements preceeded by ceasefires? If Israel required that Egypt accept recognition of Israel before a cease fire and subsequent peace negotiations, no peace treaty would have been signed.

Beside the Palestinian agreed to recognition in Principal here:

quote:
In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

-- Yasser Arafat (letter to Rabin)

From the Jewish Virtual Library.

And what does this have to do with Turkey?

[ 30 March 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
talkin2u
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posted 30 March 2004 10:00 PM      Profile for talkin2u        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
This is, of course, zionist bullshit.

Israel has the most poewrful, modern military in the region and is the only nation in the region with weapons of mass destruction and the willingness to use them.

It matters not what Palestinians think (and ascribing the thoughts of some to all is inherently racist) to Israel. Israel does not need to brutally occupy the West Bank and Gaza to insure security. It does not need to fund and support the fascist settlers stealing Palestinian lands and resources. It does not need to engage in endless demonization of all Palestinians as terrorists.

This is about one state, Israel, subjugating a people for control of land and resources. Tell your lies to placate your own conscience, but Israel, with your apologies and support, is engaged in a cruel and inhuman repression of people guilty of no crime but being on land coveted by Zionists for a Greater Israel.


I don't lie. Israel needs significant tactical superiority in order not to be eliminated. I am not ascribing views to an entire population (however, opinion surveys of the Palestinian Arab population would indicate significant support for the use of terror and for the politicide of Israel--so I am not far off in any event) but rather to its recognized leadership.

Israel accepted every attempt to partition (from the unilateral partition of Palestine in 1922 to the Peel commission to 1947 to 2001). The Arabs never have. Every time there has been war.

Because of the situation Israel can never afford to lose a war, its enemies can afford to do so.

If it were about land or resources, Israel would have held on to Sinai. Since Egypt and Jordan renounced claims on the Gaza and the West Bank, Israel has been looking for someone to give them back to. Unfortunately, the last time this was attempted the current conflict began (as Arafat and others admit as a deliberate planned strategy).

I firmly believe that once the fence is complete, then Israel will simpy pull back and let the Palestinian Arabs govern themselves. The very construction of the fence (proposed by the left and implemented by the right) shows that Israel has no abiding interest in remaining in the territories.

Unfortunately, as interesting as this discussion is, it has nothing to do with Turkey. We should return to the topic.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged

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