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Author Topic: Palestinians are willing to kill their own 11 year olds
Stockholm
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posted 17 March 2004 03:31 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So now, the Palestinians have found a new tactic. Getting small children to be unwitting mules and carrying bombs without knowing it so that they and as many Israelis as possible will be blown up. Could things sink any lower than this?
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 17 March 2004 03:35 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you have a link backing up this claim?

And this...

quote:
So now, the Palestinians have found a new tactic.

...is racist.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 17 March 2004 03:54 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm is speaking of this story, Scout.

quote:
The Israeli military has accused a faction of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement of using an 11-year-old boy as an unwitting human bomb after the child was discovered carrying explosive through an army checkpoint in Nablus.
The army says Abdullah Quran's life was saved only because a mobile phone rigged as a detonator failed to set off the explosive when he was stopped on Monday.

The boy was released after several hours of questioning and returned to school yesterday.

But Abdullah challenged the army's account, saying he would not have been freed so swiftly had he been carrying a bomb.


Basically, any evidence of Fatah using an 11 year old buy to transport a bomb has been destroyed. I certainly wouldn't put such a tactic past Fatah, or Al Aqsa. I also wouldn't put lying about such a tactic past the IOF. There's too little information to decide who is lying here, but there is one grain of truth emerging from the story: the occupation still encourages bad people to do bad things.

[ 17 March 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 17 March 2004 04:28 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And if it did happen, shouldn't the Fatah movement rather than all Palestinians be condemned for it?
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 17 March 2004 04:35 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There was suppose to be 10 Kilos of explosives, and they showed the explosion as the bag was detonated by the IDF . . . the explosion looked more like a firecracker than 10K of high explosives . . . they also showed the "crater" made by the explosion . . . it might have made a depression about 1 foot across and an inch or two deep.

So, a 10 Kilo explosive that wouldn't blow up a frog if it were shoved up it ass . . . a remote control that mysteriously fails . . . the "phone man" gets away . . . the "bag boy" released so soon after the incident . . . no word or investigation on who the woman was that was suppose to receive the bag . . . I suppose it could happen, but sure seems suspicious.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 17 March 2004 04:51 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it's at least as suspicious that someone would pay a boy an entire day's wages to carry a bag full of clothing and car parts across a checkpoint.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 17 March 2004 05:16 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Certainly is . . . but what proof is there that it was a Palestinian that did the "paying"?

What do you figure? Hamas has run out of real suicide bombers? Maybe they were all away at the suicide bombers convention in New Orleans?


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 17 March 2004 05:16 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Suspicous maybe but not indicative of the entire Palestinian people nor does it show a willingness for Palestinians to kill their children. And it was racist to claim such, and in the thread title no less!
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Udo
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posted 17 March 2004 06:03 PM      Profile for Udo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I saw a report on this today on CNN. I accept the veracity of the report but reject fully the labelling of the entire Palestinian people in the manner as was done by one of the posters.

As well 10KG of explosives would certainly have been enough to kill or maim this young child if not many others.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 March 2004 06:07 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:
I certainly wouldn't put such a tactic past Fatah, or Al Aqsa. I also wouldn't put lying about such a tactic past the IOF.

That's my reaction too. Who knows what the truth is without proof.

Also, if he WAS carrying the stuff, I'm curious about whether they used the boy as a mule to get the stuff across the border, rather than as an unwitting suicide bomber. Not that giving an 11 year-old a bunch of explosives to carry around is an okay thing or anything, but it certainly would be much different to be using him as a delivery boy than to be using him as a human bomb.

[ 17 March 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 17 March 2004 06:12 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The explosion from the detonation this 10K bomb was shown on the news report I saw . . . it might have killed the person carry the bag, and anyone hugging the kid, but it wasn't much of an explosion, and the crater it left was just a tiny little scar in the gravel . . . nothing at all like the explosions and damage caused by your typical suicide vests!!
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 17 March 2004 06:21 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
but it certainly would be much different to be using him as a delivery boy than to be using him as a human bomb

Why?


From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 March 2004 06:25 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm sorry, you can't tell the difference between asking someone to carry explosives across the border and deliver them to someone on the other side, and blowing them up as an unwitting suicide bomb?

I'm afraid if you can't figure it out then I can't explain it to you.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Udo
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posted 17 March 2004 06:28 PM      Profile for Udo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by No Yards:
The explosion from the detonation this 10K bomb was shown on the news report I saw . . . it might have killed the person carry the bag, and anyone hugging the kid, but it wasn't much of an explosion, and the crater it left was just a tiny little scar in the gravel . . . nothing at all like the explosions and damage caused by your typical suicide vests!!
That alone is enough to condemn this action is it not?

And I do not believe we should be looking for ways to always blame the Israelis for such actions. Terrorist groups like Hamas and Al Aqba have shown themseleves to be brutal murderes. Attempts at moral equivalancy between Israeli soldiers and terrorists is just another reason that many Jews view those who make such odious comparisions with suspicion and rightly so.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 17 March 2004 06:33 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
Forgive me, Michelle, but the United Nations since 1987 has frowned upon using children in armed conflict. To put it bluntly, this child's life meant nothing to those who forced him to cross a checkpoint with a bomb ready to go off. There is no grey area here.
From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 17 March 2004 06:43 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
Article 38 of the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 March 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't say it was okay to send an 11 year old into armed conflict - in fact, I even said it wasn't okay (although the IOF doesn't seem to mind killing Palestinian children, just as suicide bombers don't seem to mind killing Israeli children).

All I was saying is that there's a difference between planning to blow a kid up, and getting a kid to carry a bomb across the border to deliver to someone. In both cases, I think it's terrible to use children, but in one case the kid dies and in the other he is a mule. Doesn't mean I'm excusing the lesser of the two.

If any of it is true, of course. As Sarcasmobri says, I wouldn't put it past Fatah to involve 11 year-olds in any way, and I wouldn't put it past the IOF to lie.

[ 17 March 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 17 March 2004 07:06 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
10 kilograms is 22 pounds, people.

Do you folks seriously think an 11-year-old kid could lug somewhere 20 pounds of explosives without getting tuckered out in no time flat? Or even wearing those explosives without falling flat on his or her face?

I had to carry 20 pounds of soft drinks and binders plus hold an umbrella in the rain, and I'm a fully grown adult, and my arm felt like it was gonna fall off after lugging this ensemble for about 3/4 of a kilometer.

I just cannot see a small child being capable of dragging 20 pounds of anything for 10 feet, let alone all that way.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
beverly
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posted 17 March 2004 07:10 PM      Profile for beverly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wish audra would close this thread, or change its title. It makes me sick just looking at it. Its prejudicial and racist.

War is a terrible place for all children.


From: In my Apartment!!!! | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 March 2004 07:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, I agree about the thread title. I would like you to change it, Stockholm. It's racist to imply that Palestinians as a people are willing to kill their children.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
beverly
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posted 17 March 2004 07:15 PM      Profile for beverly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, I think Stockhom should. At least he should take responsibility for it.

Actually, I don't know if sick was the right emotion. I think it just makes me very sad to look at it.


From: In my Apartment!!!! | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 18 March 2004 07:14 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Militants' Use of Child Fighters Debated

quote:
Back in school Tuesday, Abdullah said he had done nothing wrong. "These people (the Israeli army) are liars, I don't believe them, and if it was a bomb, they would not have let me go so easily," he told The Associated Press at his school.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 March 2004 07:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, since the title hasn't been edited, I'm closing this thread.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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