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Author Topic: Israel boosts Palestinian banks
xrcrguy
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posted 25 February 2004 10:43 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Outrageous

quote:
Israeli soldiers have stolen millions of dollars from three banks and an aid group during raids in the Palestinian Territories.

The soldiers burst into the banks in Ram Allah on Wednesday, corralled employees, covered security cameras and walked out with several millions in cash.

Israel said it took between $6.7 million and $8.9 million from the vaults of the three branches, in an attack it said targeted funds funnelled by Iran, Syria and Lebanese guerrillas to Palestinian resistance groups.

An Israeli official later said the money would be spent on unspecified humanitarian aid to Palestinians.



From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 26 February 2004 02:39 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Please tell me this is a bad joke.

I can't think of anything more heartless to those still trying to make a living in the Occupied Territories than for Israel to officially sanction looting the Palestinian-Arab banking system and depriving people of their savings.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 26 February 2004 08:22 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
An Israeli official later said the money would be spent on unspecified humanitarian aid to Palestinians.

Maybe they'll give it to the IOF, to help with their humanitarian interventions in the occupied territories.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 10:21 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Covered the security cameras? Why? Did they think they might be doing something wrong?

The cash will no doubt make its way to the wall.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 26 February 2004 10:28 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Maybe they'll give it to the IOF, to help with their humanitarian interventions in the occupied territories.

This is just to soften critizism.

xrcrguy, the subject is a little misleading. When I hear boost, I usually think something was proped up or elavated.


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 11:18 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is no proof of anything yet. Although it is highly likely the funds did come from extremist maybe even militant organization for extremist maybe militant cause.

And anyways laugh all you like in the IDF's hands it is more likely to reach humanitarian causes then in the hands of any Palestinians Organization.

So shocked about this??? why isn't anybody complaining about the real thievery How the PA and the Hamas and Jihad and other organizations rob the Palestinians of there hope for peace by continuing attacks on Israel and intimidating and bullying anyone who resists.

I do pray it finally does go to helping needy Palestinians. Sadly nobody has given them hope thus far.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 26 February 2004 11:39 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
According to Reuters, the IOF did not put traces on any of the accounts that they raided. This is pretty standard when trying to sess out the source and purpose of money in an account. They cleaned out accounts belonging to Islamic University and the Zakat Committees, too.

There's a bigger question to all this, though. Were the raids actually designed to collapse Palestine's already fragile banking system? Whatever accounts the money 'came from' (how do you ascertain which money in a computerized bank belongs to which account?), the excuse cited of shutting down terrorist accounts could be a smokescreen for a purely economic attack on Palestinians as a whole.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 11:53 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
shutting down terrorist accounts could be a smokescreen for a purely economic attack on Palestinians as a whole.

Yes it is probably true that often the IDF engages in reckless behavior and causes more harm then is necessary but I am positively sure that their intent is not to harm innocent people even though often many innocent people get hurt. To them I must acknowledge the intent is irrelevant but that is not going to help as long as the PA, Hamas and others engage in reckless behavior.

The Palestinian economy collapsed long ago thank to the PA's miss management of funds. Most of which went to Swiss bank accounts and then thanks to the terrorist which forced Israel to put more restrictions on Palestinians working in Israel. So whatever damage the Israeli forces have done by taking these funds is minimal compared to the damage done by the Palestinian militant groups.


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Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 11:57 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now that I think of it. Screwing with the international banking system, even if they were Arab banks, may not have been such a good idea.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 12:09 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why not?

Every body complains about the World Bank screwing up the world.

People also say money is the root of all evil.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 12:10 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 12:19 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
People also say money is the root of all evil.

Ergo, stealing the Palestinians' money is good for them.

As for the IOF never doing anything to intentionally hurt civilians, this is laughable.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 12:30 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Every body complains about the World Bank screwing up the world.

Sorry man, it sounds kind of desperate, and foolish. Really. Their are Palestinians and then there are The Banks. You have know idea whose money that is and who that money connects to etc. etc.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 01:08 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
As for the IOF never doing anything to intentionally hurt civilians, this is laughable.

Yes the IDF is a big organization and yes it has some gun hoe soldiers in it for the most part they are put in jail when they go over board. And yes many of the IDF's actions hurt many civilians but it is not their intentions.

I can see it now the IDF drawing up plans to blow up as many civilians as possible in the streets. There sharp shooters practice by shooting pictures of babies. You also see many Jews burning Palestinian flags in the street and celebrating every time a Palestinian civilian is killed.

quote:
People also say money is the root of all evil.

no but as you'll notice in my comment to the following

quote:
You have know idea whose money that is and who that money connects to etc. etc.

Let's face it. It was not going to go to who needs it.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 01:13 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Everything you have just said are assertioinas. What I know is that bank has been robbed, Armed robbers came in, covere the security cameras, and then stole the money.

What possible reason do you think they covered the security cameras?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 01:19 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Let's face it. It was not going to go to who needs it.

It's a bank, not a charity. Since when have bank accounts been audited to see if the account-holders deserved the money therein?

How many IOF troops are in jail, by the way, for killing civilians? Any?

The soldier who drew down and shot Tom Hurndall in the head has been charged with manslaughter, of all things. His case is special, as it attracted international outrage.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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posted 26 February 2004 01:21 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because they were doing something they felt was wrong is also an assertion.

You have no idea what their reasons were or what evidence they have that the money was being used to fund attacks against Israeli civilians

A more plausible explanation was this was a sensitive of operation and the identity of the soldiers needed to be protected as in most military operations. Any how nobody has the facts in this case and neither you nor I can say truly what thier reasons were and why they operation was done the way it was done.


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Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 01:27 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What possible reason do you think they covered the security cameras?

Why do Black Bloc anarchists wear balaclavas or bandanas over their faces. Clearly they must know they're doing something wrong, eh?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 26 February 2004 01:28 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
fucking amazing . . . no matter what the Israelis do, kill innocent people, let sick people die at checkpoints by keeping them from getting to the hospital, dropping missiles in the middle of crowed streets, stealing Palestinian land, cutting Palestinians off from water, from jobs, from crops, from land, and now even blatanent bank robbery, is all fine and dandy for some . . . hell, some even claim it's for the Palestinians own good . . . and then they have the never to wonder why Palestinians hate them!!

Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't "intend" for anyone to be hurt by all this murdering and stealing!!

edited to add: post addressed to "Justice" (what irony using such a name.)

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: No Yards ]


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you.

Another likely possibility is that they did not want recordings of their treatment of the staff in the case that they shot someone. That is also very likely.

quote:
You have no idea what their reasons were or what evidence they have that the money was being used to fund attacks against Israeli civilians.

And you do? No you don't. So in fact you can not assert that:

1) "...it is highly likely the funds did come from extremist maybe even militant organization for extremist maybe militant cause."

Where is your evidence. The evidence as far as you know it is that the IDF went and took money that did not belong to them. That is all you know. You think it is likely that funding came from militant organizations.

Surely not all of it? Some of it must have come from personal accounts, no?

But the IDF took all of it. That is what we know. You know nothing. You just assrt this or that based on your personal disposition, and your belief that the IDF acts on moral principals similar to your own.

For that matter what swiss bank accounts is the PA money stored in? Swiss bank accounts are not entirely above international regulation, just heavily protected. Why has Israel, or the US or any number of organizations that gave the money to the PA not pursued the matter with the Swiss authorities?

Wasn't it the Anti-defamation league that went after such acounts in regards to war reparations for the money stolen from Jews by the Nazis. Didn't the RCMP get access to records from in regards to some of Brian Mulroney's dealings (I may be wrong on the case but I know they did for something.

Start providing some concrete stuff to back up your allegations, otherwise they will remain allegations.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 01:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Why do Black Bloc anarchists wear balaclavas or bandanas over their faces. Clearly they must know they're doing something wrong, eh?


Pet Peeve? Strange. Really odd. There is a difference between a bunch of messed up kids wearing rebel clothes and thinking that they are changing the world, and police officers and military personel who hide their identity when conducting operations. The latter is death squad stuff, the former (sometimes) stupid antics.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 01:47 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't disagree. But others do. They would never dream of arresting an anarchist wearing a diguise on the grounds that you only wear a disguise when you know you're about to do something wrong. In fact, some people think that wearing a mask and wrecking some stuff is something we should all endorse. Or at least never, ever, criticize.

All I'm challenging here is the assumption that if the IDF covered up the cameras in the bank, that they're essentially admitting some kind of guilt.

Is this operation a cash grab, to buy Sharon a new wall, or will the money actually go to good use? I don't know yet, but I don't think we can assume the former on the basis that they covered up some video cameras.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 01:57 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
They would never dream of arresting an anarchist wearing a diguise on the grounds that you only wear a disguise when you know you're about to do something wrong.

Would you assert that if these same kids entered a bank and hid their identity, that they might not be attempting to avoid prosecution for the acts commited inside the bank, such as theft of money, abuse of staff, or accidental death?

You would suggest that they might have other motives for hiding their identity. Perhaps they are ashamed of their pimply 15 year old faces perhaps?

Funily enough, these hypothetical kids might also assert that they were liberating funds from terrorist organizations and that those funds would be used for unspecified humanitarian purposes!

Please.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 02:01 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
All I'm challenging here is the assumption that if the IDF covered up the cameras in the bank, that they're essentially admitting some kind of guilt.

Huh?

Seen to be robbing banks isn't enough proof of guilt?

Maybe these weren't soldiers at all. They're the James Gang, cleverly disguised as passing anonymous Occupying Troops.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 26 February 2004 02:36 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Don't let Magoo distract you, Al. He never misses a chance to call an orange purple.

(don't let me distract you either. I'm such a troll.)


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 02:55 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Would you assert that if these same kids entered a bank and hid their identity, that they might not be attempting to avoid prosecution for
the acts commited inside the bank, such as theft of money, abuse of staff, or accidental death?

All I'm asking for is consistency. Between you and I we may already have this, but I know that many would be uncomfortable with assuming that anyone who's taking pains to hide their identity must be guilty of something. If you want to assume that of the IDF bank robbers, then I think we need to assume the same of anyone who pulls on a mask or disables a camera.

quote:
Seen to be robbing banks isn't enough proof of guilt?

I don't know enough of this situation to be certain that "robbing banks" is the best or only interpretation. Many governments seem to be coming to the realization that the best way to stop terrorists is to use the same tools they use to stop organized criminals: freeze their cash. All the footsoldiers and infrastructure in the world won't help them without the cash. Did the IDF attempt to garnish these funds in a less dramatic way, before going in armed? I don't know. But if there is no reasonable precedent for freezing these assets in this way then yes, they were robbing a bank, and are bank robbers. On a huge scale.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 26 February 2004 03:31 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This bank robbery is simply the most blatant act yet by a right-wing government intent upon stealing from the poorest of the poor in order to enrich the already rich.

Screwing with the tax system is just a more "gentlemanly" way of doing it, by throwing the expense of government onto those who can least afford the increase in the cover charge.

If the Canadian government looted the bank accounts of working Canadians so Paul Martin could use that money for building palaces and self-aggrandizing monuments, the whole world would condemn this act, and rightly so.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
caoimhin
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posted 26 February 2004 03:41 PM      Profile for caoimhin        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The cash will no doubt make its way to the wall.


Like you said, how do you know this. What proof do you have? (familiar?)
quote:
Start providing some concrete stuff to back up your allegations, otherwise they will remain allegations.

Perhaps the cameras were real time. Perhaps the IDF brought other people in who were not military. Perhaps they knew the location within the bank where something was kept that the Isrealis didn't want their enemies to know they knew was there. Perhaps they left something behind. Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps.
Maybe they took the money to build a functioning hospital so Palestinians didn't have to go to Isreal to get medical attention.
Some bank branches and offices and financial institutions cater to one client only. Perhaps this was one of them. Perhaps, not unlike the Ramallah seige of Arafat's corruption central they were looking for proof of questionable fund transfer so they could send it to OLAF for further proof of rampant corruption within the PA.

From: Windsor | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 03:51 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Maybe they took the money to build a functioning hospital so Palestinians didn't have to go to Isreal to get medical attention.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 26 February 2004 04:13 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
WTF? The IDF comes in, covers the security cameras, takes all the money, and some people say we should jump to the conclusion and accuse them of robbery?? Fine, maybe there are no such thing as suicide bombers either . . . just a bunch of unlucky dynamite couriers who just happen to drop their smoke on their package at an inopportune time!

Let me guess . . . the IDF is murdering and looting for peace!?


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 04:17 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Maybe they took the money to build a functioning hospital so Palestinians didn't have to go to Isreal to get medical attention.

I'm suggesting that there could be some rational reason for this, such as freezing terrorist funds, and you suggest this? This is a bit of a stretch, doncha think?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 26 February 2004 04:24 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So long as we're speculating on what the IDF is doing with the money, I'll put my two cents in. I think they plan to buy every Palestinian a bouquet of flowers with a card that reads "You are my brother and my neighbour. Sorry about the last 40 years. Come home, and let's live in peace, neighbour."
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 04:26 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hehe. And in return, every Israeli will get a cake, with one huge red candle in the middle.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 05:29 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh I get it!

Because Palestinians are cartoon-character insane bombers, right?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 26 February 2004 05:30 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I figured if Sarcasmobri could make a joke, so could I. There was no intent to smear the entire citizenry of Palestine there.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 February 2004 06:51 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Perhaps, not unlike the Ramallah seige of Arafat's corruption central they were looking for proof of questionable fund transfer so they could send it to OLAF for further proof of rampant corruption within the PA.

I thought you were supposed to have the evidence, and at least a warrant hearing before you sieze the property? (BTW Magoo there is a difference between siezing and freezing of assetts.)

So-called Justice, sometime I'd like to see if you can reference any of this proof of PA corruption. Can you? Or do you think that by repeating that the PA is corrupt three time and clicking your shoes together Arafat will suddenly appear in Kansas?

I am going to bring this into perspective for you. Reality. ok.

Statistics I researched from the Israeli Minstry of Foreign Affairs show that between 1967 and 1999, Palestinians killed an average of 35 Israelis a year (both civilian and military.) Compared to the city of Toronto and adjusted on a per capita basis, the murder rate in Tornoto is eight times higher than the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians, in that period.

Some would like to say that if the Israelis were not tough with the Palsetinians, this rate would be higher. However, the results of the last four years of the most extreme clampdown on civil rights against Palestinians has had exactly the opposite effect. Between 2000 and now, the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians per year (235) now matches the yearly murder rate of Toronto (again this is adjusted per capita.) Hence we can exclude the idea that severe repression decreases the number of attacks, and a possibly increases them.

In Canada not even Stockwell Day would even dare suggest that basic due process of law would be abrogated in th city of Toronto because it has a crime wave that matches that of Israel. Which is a drop in the bucket in comparison to Pittsburgh, where they have also not declared marshall law.

Reveresed, if we were to use the Israeli model of so-called-justice as applied to Palestinians in Toronto the Canafian Army would long ago have besieged city hall, demanded Mel Lastman's (or whomever it is now) resignation and branded the police chief either too incompent to hold office, or as a person colluding with the mafia. The local constabulary would be shot down for daring to try enforce their jusridicational rights, and the courts vilified as the agents of the mafia.

Meanwhile, helicoper gunships would roam the skies at all hours of the night, while the army stopped traffic onto the major expressways as people went to and fro from work, or to the hospital, or to see there loved ones. Occasionally, key mafia figures would be blown up by suprise rocket attacks, without much regard for civilian collateral damage or the benfit of a trial.

Yet does any of this happen even though the number of people killed in Toronto by various felons, both organized and not, is essentially the same as number of Israeli's killed by Palestinians, per year (adjusted per capita.)

No.

Nor would anyone cosider siezing (freeze maybe, but not seize) the assets of alledged mafia figures from any financial institution, for whatever stated purpose, without an investigation, which was then disclosed by a public prosecutor in a public trial.

Honsetly, when I looked at the statistical truth of this, I was really shocked at how gross violation being committed by Israel is. You should be too.

That is what I think of your siege of Ramalah in search of evidence (of which their was precious little of corruption that I have seen -- and to be truthful I doubt you can site any of it) and this bank heist.

[ 27 February 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 February 2004 07:20 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I figured if Sarcasmobri could make a joke, so could I. There was no intent to smear the entire citizenry of Palestine there.

Fair enough, but you do realize that your joke was "funny" in the same way Polack jokes are "funny" don't you?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 27 February 2004 05:37 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wasn't trying to be funny.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 27 February 2004 05:48 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Then what? Ironic? Facetious?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 27 February 2004 06:02 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ironic. Although my last post was meant to be funny. It's hard to do a Steven Wright voice over the net, though.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 February 2004 06:05 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
bah

[ 27 February 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 February 2004 10:25 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
bah
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 28 February 2004 08:34 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Incidentally, on the question of intent, the best evidence we have comes from the Refuseniks. They are quite clear that the IDF has a culture that encourages unprovoked violence against Palestinians, and that it is essentially impossible to serve in the occupied territories without committing acts that violate international law (well, I mean aside from being there in the first place in violation of many UN resolutions). Immoral and illegal orders are common. Impunity is so thorough that it is not even an issue--one is not so much as under scrutiny for excessive violence against Palestinians up to and including murder, quite the reverse: one is under scrutiny if one refuses to undertake excessive violence against Palestinians.
So, yes, "the IDF", in so far as such a broad entity can have intent, does "intend" to do bad shit to the Palestinians. It is culturally and institutionally disposed towards such action.

Given that, and the widespread outright lying that the IDF and associated ministries routinely engage in, it's hard to see how anyone is supposed to believe the notion that the money is going to be put towards charitable aid to Palestinians. However, maybe I'm too cynical, or not cynical enough. I can just imagine; they take the money, build a hospital, have the ribbon cutting with pomp and ceremony. The general cuts the ribbon, declares the hospital open, then turns and waves in the bulldozers; ten minutes after it's built, the hospital is demolished again.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 28 February 2004 08:47 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Probably going towards the charitable practice of providing tents to those whose homes have been bulldozed.

Charity starts at home . . . as in go home and stay out of the occupied territories.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged

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