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Author Topic: Cleansing the Bedouin
xrcrguy
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posted 17 February 2004 07:08 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Click

quote:
On 15 January the authorities stepped up the pressure on the Araqib to leave by spraying powerful herbicides on their crops, making the young shoots shrivel and die in the following weeks.

It was the third time the Araqib's crops had been sprayed in the past two years by a government agency, the Israel Lands Authority.

"This time we hurriedly took what crops we could for feed," says Abu Darim. "We made the mistake of giving them to our animals. Nearly 400 of the sheep miscarried."


quote:
The surge in activity is not accidental. It is the result of a government plan, personally approved a year ago by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and backed by $200 million, to force the rural beduin off their lands and into a handful of urban reservations the state is building for them.

Critics have accused the government of plotting a quiet transfer of the beduin from their historic lands and the destruction of their traditional way of life


It's like the destruction of the First Nations all over again.


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 17 February 2004 07:26 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The surge in activity is not accidental. It is the result of a government plan, personally approved a year ago by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and backed by $200 million, to force the rural beduin off their lands and into a handful of urban reservations the state is building for them.

If that's not an example of ethnic cleansing, then I don't know what is.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 17 February 2004 11:06 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Alright, forcing the Araqib off the land is one thing, but what I don't understand is what Israel could possibly want to do with all that land if it is laden with herbicides? Wouldn't all those chemicals that are harming the Araqib tribe's crops also harm the crops of Jewish Israeli settlers?
From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 17 February 2004 11:49 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Could be they want to toss some apartment blocks up. I wouldn't be surprised if there's been rampant property speculation in the area by people closely connected to Sharon.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 18 February 2004 12:30 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Could be they want to toss some apartment blocks up. I wouldn't be surprised if there's been rampant property speculation in the area by people closely connected to Sharon.

Perhaps, but it still sounds like a very illogical move, even for Likudites.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 February 2004 05:02 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...but what I don't understand is what Israel could possibly want to do with all that land if it is laden with herbicides?

City boy?

What do you think Western Canadian farmers spray over their fields?

Guess what? The land (and the rivers and the underground water systems) of the prairie provinces is laden with herbicides.

We must be nuttier than Likudniks, eh?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 18 February 2004 05:51 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They should have planted Roundup-ready barley.

GAAAH! xrcrguy said: "It's *like* the First Nations.."

It's not like, it *is* the First Nations all over again.

I'm going to go punch a wall or something now. Then I'll regroup and come up with a plan.

Edited to add: Made the desert bloom, my ass.

[ 18 February 2004: Message edited by: aRoused ]


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 18 February 2004 09:58 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bustan website

Also linked is a Ha'aretz story confirming that Roundup was used. The Bustan story suggests that people have been sprayed along with plants.

Oh, yummy, make mine Roundup for dinner tonight!

quote:
The State maintains this is an herbicide which doesn’t harm animals or people.

But, hey, you wouldn't want those sheep breaking into Sharon's ranch and eating his roses, would you?


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 18 February 2004 03:43 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

City boy?

What do you think Western Canadian farmers spray over their fields?

Guess what? The land (and the rivers and the underground water systems) of the prairie provinces is laden with herbicides.

We must be nuttier than Likudniks, eh?


But the pesticides that are sprayed on the fields are not killing everything they touch. If they did, there would be no production of anything.

I was under the impression that the stuff being sprayed on the Araqib fields is a wee bit more dangerous than the average commercial pesticide....


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 18 February 2004 04:42 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is sad. I'm sure Mishei can provide us with a good excuse for this, and maybe lighten up our spirits.
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 February 2004 04:56 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But the pesticides that are sprayed on the fields are not killing everything they touch. If they did, there would be no production of anything.

The beauty of Roundup is that kills every plant it touches, unless the crops have been genetically altered to be resistant.

Such crops are called "Roundup ready."


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 18 February 2004 05:03 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
RoundUp isn't actually that non-specific (maybe you're thinking of Agent Orange ). It targets bent grasses and similar types of plant. Corn, which is basically a really big grass, is affected, but RoundUp isn't after your tomatoes or your carrots or your fruit trees.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 February 2004 05:36 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You may have used Roundup to kill weeds that come up in the cracks in your side-walk. Like Agent Orange, Roundup kills every plant.

Sierra Cub

quote:
Roundup® will eliminate almost any green plant that is actively growing, including tough weeds like poison ivy, bindweed, quackgrass, Canada thistle, poplar, alder, maple etc. Although most common weeds will be eliminated with one treatment, some hard-to-control weeds may require a repeat application.

Green Cross Canada

I read somewhere that Roundup non-selective herbicide kills 125 different grasses and weeds, but haven't come across a list yet.

The essential point is that since grazing animals are pretty dependent on grasses, Roundup would be sure to kill most of their food supply.

[ 18 February 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 18 February 2004 05:53 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I stand corrected. Perhaps I mixed it up with Compotox. No, wait, that'll kill anything with DNA...
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 18 February 2004 08:47 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
RoundUp has been used to write nasty words on lawns that have to be dug up and re-sodded at the owner's (considerable) expense. It's NASTY.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 18 February 2004 08:59 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:

But the pesticides that are sprayed on the fields are not killing everything they touch. If they did, there would be no production of anything.

I was under the impression that the stuff being sprayed on the Araqib fields is a wee bit more dangerous than the average commercial pesticide....


According to the Bedouin it is:

quote:
"This time we hurriedly took what crops we could for feed," says Abu Darim. "We made the mistake of giving them to our animals. Nearly 400 of the sheep miscarried."

The only thing that really matters is that the sprays are targetting and affecting their food supplies. The possibility that it might be "RoundUp Ready" is irrelevant.

The article doesn't suggest that the herbicide is more dangerous than any other kind. Most herbicides will probably kill you if consumed in any serious quantity.

Starving a people off of the land they've used for hundreds, if not, thousands of years is pretty low.

Looks like Israel is taking some pointers from Plan Columbia and mixing it up with the policies of the US Government of the 1800's towards the aboriginal population.

Sickening


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 21 February 2004 01:31 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Very sad. The same thing is happening in the rest of the world. Hunter gathers can't survive the onslaught of capitalism. Not that I think we should all live like bedouin Tribesman, but I hate the idea of ingesting toxic chemicals and I feel great sympathy for those who can't do anything about it.

*thread drift*

Are all the Arab populations in the Middle East originally descended from the Bedouin.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 22 February 2004 06:17 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
[anthropology pedant] The Bedouin are better described as pastoralists or horticulturalists (remember, the thread is about their crops being herbicided) than hunter-gatherers. [/anthropology pedant]

Here's what the Center for Contemporary Arab Studies has to say about the origins of the Arabs.

Having become inured to the daily cycle of violence between Israelis and Palestinians, this story is, I think, the one that's finally pushed me over the edge. There is precious little difference between spraying the Bedouin (and their crops) with Roundup and spraying a Kurdish village with VX. Both were done with the knowledge that the result would be death, with only some governmental legalese and the ultimate aim (mass murder for the Kurds, presumably 'going away and not bothering us any more' for the Bedouin) separating them.

I now see that a suicide bomber has just struck in Jerusalem. Back to the old grind.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 23 February 2004 05:12 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm sure that everything the Israelis are doing to the Bedouin is justified because the Bedouin have denied Israel's right to exist or something. It can't possibly just be a land grab, because the pro-Israel people assure us that if only the Arab states and/or the Palestinians hadn't done bad things Israel would never, ever have gone for more territory. Pay no attention to those territorial expansion plans behind the curtain.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 23 February 2004 05:56 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sickening indeed. This is a crime against humanity.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 23 February 2004 09:09 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm sure that everything the Israelis are doing to the Bedouin is justified because the Bedouin have denied Israel's right to exist or something.

What is most Ironic is that the Bedouin have been one of Israel only traditional allies among the Arabs, and often employed by the IDF.

quote:
According to the Southern Command's Tracking Unit's Commander, Colonel Pini Ganon, there are certain characteristics necessary for the tracker's skilled activities as the Battalions leaders, that not anyone is capable of. "The tracker must be patient, tolerant and must posses strict self-discipline, observation and keen sight." According to Ganon, these traits come naturally for these people.

IDF Web Site


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 07 June 2004 06:44 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Reviving this thread for a moment:

The ticking time bomb -- Bedouin Intifada?

What an unpleasant piece that is. It's nearly a carbon copy of what passed for analysis of the problems on reserves in Canada circa about 1985. It's presented almost entirely as a problem of policing the uppity natives.

quote:
MK Taleb a-Sana claims that the Israeli government is responsible for rising crime in certain segments of the Bedouin population. "I am telling you," he declares, "that the Bedouin intifada will begin because Bedouin citizens are systematically oppressed. Our situation is worse than that of Palestinian refugees in the camps. Remember what happened on the eve of the intifada in December 1987. Until then, everything was fine. Then there was a car accident and the whole thing blew up. Our silence is virtual. There is a limit to patience. People can take it, and take it, and then suddenly go crazy."

But then:

quote:
Soffer, who holds the chair in Geostrategic and Security Studies at Haifa University, said at the end of his tour in the northern Negev, "I returned disturbed and shocked after seeing how the Bedouin have taken over the area, and immediately wrote a letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and all the commanders in the country." In the letter, entitled "Trends among the Bedouin in the northern Negev - A threat to the entire Negev," Soffer warns, "It is no longer possible to postpone addressing the Bedouin problem, unless Israeli leaders are prepared to throw up their hands and relinquish the entire Negev."

Soffer also writes, "In the Negev, there is a combination of the wildest demographics in modern history (and, perhaps, all time) with physical expansion over land to an extent and with audacity unwitnessed until now. Both of these phenomena have been accompanied by acts of crime and terror. The entire establishment responds to this development with a show of weakness and trembling knees, and does not know what to do. The Bedouin understand all too well, and the Negev has descended into anarchy."


Audacious expansion...over land they lived on prior to 1948?


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 June 2004 04:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In addition, the Negev is part of Israel proper, not the Occupied Territories, so the dynamics of the situation are quite different.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 07 June 2004 08:19 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting article. Telling bits, to me:

quote:
The main problem is that about 30,000 structures, including roadside stands, gas stations and commercial buildings, have been built without building permits. But, the worried officer admits, "I'm not sure the police can do the job."

quote:
Staffed by 120 police officers, the unit works with other government bodies to identify and destroy illegal structures

Whose land it is, and the expropriation and control of property, always seem to be at the centre of arguments in Israel. Also in Canada vis-a-vis First Nations.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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