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Author Topic: Let's have a role reversal
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 11 February 2004 01:30 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just as an intellectual exercise, I have an idea. For one week why doesn't everyone switch roles. Why don't people like Courage and Al-Qabong become 100% pro-Israel and and posting in good faith that logically argue Israel's side in the conflict. At the same time maybe Mishei and others can try to pretend they are pro-Palestinian.

Of Course I attack everyone since I can't decide who i hate more: Arab suicide bombers or Jewish religious freaks with Brooklyn accents who dare to lay claim on chunks of the Middle East.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 11 February 2004 01:51 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Have you noticed that almost every time you refer to Palestinians, or make comments about someone else's support of Palestinian human rights that you invariably associate a whole people with suicide bombers?

Imagine how someone would react to you if you were unable to discuss Italians without equating them with the Mafia.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 11 February 2004 05:49 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This was tried IIRC, about, oh, a year, year and a half ago? Lasted for about a half-dozen exchanges before it blew up if memory serves.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 11 February 2004 09:55 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Imagine how someone would react to you if you were unable to discuss Italians without equating them with the Mafia.


Imagine how someone would react to you if you were unable to discuss Jews without equating them with being architects of global conspiracies and having lots of money.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 11 February 2004 09:59 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But if we discuss an Italian (Berlusconi, my personal favourite person to loathe) or person of Italian origin (Alfonso Gagliano?) surely we are allowed to accuse them of corruption or even ties to the underworld?

O forse è autoodio italiano?


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3838

posted 11 February 2004 11:21 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Imagine how someone would react to you if you were unable to discuss Jews without equating them with being architects of global conspiracies and having lots of money.

Keep gatherin' that straw, Stockholm. So many men to build, so little time.

I swear this guy must've plundered half the hay bales in Saskatchewan for his recent posts.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 11 February 2004 11:37 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Straw and hay are two different things, although when you stack them up they look quite the same, except for colour...and at a distance...

But I agree, Stockholm is trying to make rhetorical hay out strawmen.

Just for fun, I thought I'd inject some Paganism into these dismal Monotheistic gab-fests.

Why settle for strawmen when you can have...the Wicker Man?

[ 11 February 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 11 February 2004 11:52 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Have you noticed that almost every time you refer to Palestinians, or make comments about someone else's support of Palestinian human rights that you invariably associate a whole people with suicide bombers?

Well maybe if people could express support for Palestinian human rights without then turning around and making sympathetic comments about suicide bombers, I and many other people might actually be supportive of the rest of what they have to say.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3714

posted 11 February 2004 12:02 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well maybe if people could express support for Palestinian human rights without then turning around and making sympathetic comments about suicide bombers,

Stockholm, you never cease to live up to reputation as someone who uses gross generalisations based on little to no evidence.

Your statement directly means that people like Jack Layton, Judy Rebick, even Bill Graham for goodness sakes, support suicide bombers. It also means that babblers like me support suicide bombers.

Can you pelase grow up and learn to develop a more sophiticated argument? Can you also apologize to the millions of people who support Palestinian human rights and who don't support suicide bombers? Your tactics are utterly pathetic.


From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595

posted 11 February 2004 01:01 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well maybe if people could express support for Palestinian human rights without then turning around and making sympathetic comments about suicide bombers, I and many other people might actually be supportive of the rest of what they have to say.

This comment is unacceptable. Stockholm, trying to sell your smear job in multiple threads has become tiresome. This is baiting pure and simple.

As for the limited value of your comment, regarding what is required for you to be supportive...it's good to see you are so capable of forming your own value judgments. You don't like what [insert name] has to say, so you don't support human rights arguments for Palestinians. What kind of logic is that? Either you are against human rights violations or your not. It's your choice, you can't blame anyone else.

quote:
Your tactics are utterly pathetic.

Hear hear!


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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Babbler # 4881

posted 11 February 2004 01:40 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now, now, everyone. Let us continue with this.

Stockholm:

Could you please find a quote by any of the usual suspects supporting martyr operations. One. On any thread here. One post where a babbler has reacted to a suicide with glee. Even commented on the strategic validity of a suicide-bomb.

If you can, that is important and it does need to be addressed. If not, I believe a retraction is in order.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 11 February 2004 02:02 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I believe Stockholm is the only babbler who has actually advocated the use of suicide bombing as a tactic.

quote:
Maybe someday the poor oppressed palestinans east of the Jordan river will start suicide bombings in Amman to rid themselves of the Hashemite occupiers!

I'm sure he was just trying to be funny, though.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
FPTP
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4780

posted 11 February 2004 02:16 PM      Profile for FPTP        Edit/Delete Post
The whole role reversal thing seems like a good idea especially if it helps all understand contrasing points of view. However, with this experiment there's no reason to believe there will be more clarity since people are likely to misrepresent someone else's argument.
If I may suggest another way to continue what I think would be useful and may resolve some of the debates is to focus on what Babblers can agree on. At the very least, this will limit what is argued, and, most importantly, what others can claim about others. I.e. this'lll stop people from suggesting people support the policy of suicide bombings.

One agreement has been made already:

Let's call it agreement #1:
The universal disaproval (to use a moderate word) for the policy of suicide bombings.

Once an agreement is made, people will be asumed to agree with the agreement unless they say otherwise.

May I suggest a further agreement (agreement #2):
Attemps to understand why people have resorted to suicide bombings does not imply concent. Much like someone studying murder in Canada doesn't concent to murder if they suggest poverty had something to do with the crime.

What else can we agree on? Then, once this list is exhausted, you can go back to e-abusing each other.


From: Lima | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 11 February 2004 02:16 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You don't like what [insert name] has to say, so you don't support human rights arguments for Palestinians.

Since when don't I support human rights for Palestinians? I do. I want them to live in a multi-party egalitarian society with iron clad protection for woman and sexual and racial minorities. I want them to have a country with boundaries negotiated peacefully that are some combination of what is now the West Bank, Gaza and Jordan. And, I think the best way for all that to happen is for them to lay down all their weapons, renounce violence and make the Israelis trust them enough to make it all happen.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3714

posted 11 February 2004 02:44 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm you said:
quote:
Since when don't I support human rights for Palestinians? I do.

Stockholm, you also said:

quote:
if people could express support for Palestinian human rights without then turning around and making sympathetic comments about suicide bombers,

If we go by your grade-two logic, you are sympathetic to suicide bombers. If applies to us, why shouldn't it apply to you?

You've managed not only to tar many babblers but yourself as well in the process. A difficult feat.

Stockholm, can you please avoid changing the topic and apologize for your immature comments?

[ 11 February 2004: Message edited by: Sara Mayo ]


From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
FPTP
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4780

posted 11 February 2004 02:58 PM      Profile for FPTP        Edit/Delete Post
Agreement #2
We all believe that everyone in Isreal/Palestine are entiled to enjoy HR as enshrined in the UN Declaration on HR.

From: Lima | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 11 February 2004 03:22 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK, I apologize for my immature (overzealous?) comments.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 11 February 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank-you.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged

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