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Author Topic: A ticket to torture: Gay in Egypt
Tolok
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4934

posted 07 February 2004 12:59 PM      Profile for Tolok        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The idea that homosexuality is a perversion seeping in from the faithless West is a constant theme. The defendants in the Queen Boat trials had "imported European ideas," claimed several newspapers. "Be a Sexual Pervert and Uncle Sam Will Approve," declared a government-backed newspaper when these trials were condemned by a group of American congressmen.

Such sentiments are frequently heard on Egyptian streets, even in conversations that have nothing to do with gays. "I like America," a young, educated, upper-class Egyptian man told me in a discussion about politics. "Except there are too many homosexuals and they don't do anything about it."


quote:
In the most infamous case, Egyptian police raided a Cairo discotheque known as the "Queen Boat" in May 2001. Fifty-two men were accused of being members of a homosexual cult that reviled Islam, worshiped Satan, spread European ideas and took orders from Israel. The sensational trials that followed, says Human Rights Watch, "were less a judicial exercise than a serial extravaganza." Foreign governments and international human rights groups protested and the bizarre case got considerable news coverage outside Egypt.

quote:
One victim told Human Rights Watch of how the police "brought a class of boys from school, six or seven years old. They made us lie face down on our stomachs and the small boys watched the policemen walking on our backs. Then the boys walked on us. ... The police told the boys, 'this is how faggots end.' It was like a school trip."


Pretty awful stuff. Anyone considering a vacation in Egypt might want to reconsider.


gay Egyptians know they are being hunted like never before.


From: Out of Ontario | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 07 February 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Horrific. And a lie of course: same-sex relationships have a long and storied history in the Middle East.

A friend of mine of Egyptian origin will probably be going there soon to visit her relatives - I'll send her this. I'd certainly boycott any country that persecutes gays in this way (I suppose it is impossible to boycott all countries where there is homophobia or discrimination against gays, but this is a case of a campaign of persecution). It is a bit more problematic for my friend though, because it is a family visit.

The problem for human rights activists - a common one for feminist issues as well - is how to protest without reinforcing the idea that gayness - or feminism - are corrupt ideas imported from the West.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 07 February 2004 02:09 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The problem for human rights activists - a common one for feminist issues as well - is how to protest without reinforcing the idea that gayness - or feminism - are corrupt ideas imported from the West.


Maybe the answer is to stress the indigeneous elemt of gay and lesbian life in the Arab world. it is not an "import" from the west. It is something that is every bit as Egyptian as it is American etc...There have always been gays in Egypt and there always will be.

Also, maybe the point needs to be made that just because a movement originated in the west doesn't ipso-facto make it corrupt. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Funnily some of the most virulently antiwestern movements in the Arab 9ie: Nasserism, the Ba'ath party etc...) draw a lot of inspiration from Marxism and who was Marx? A Jewish intellectual from Trier, Germany!


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 07 February 2004 04:05 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Irony: What got imported from the west wasn't homosexuality. It was homophobia.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tolok
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4934

posted 07 February 2004 07:37 PM      Profile for Tolok        Edit/Delete Post
Irony? Methinks that word is misapplied here. This sick and sorry situation is because homophobia was "imported from the west"?

What a lame response.


From: Out of Ontario | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 07 February 2004 08:23 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I'm glad to see that you've got such high standards for yourself that you think anybody else who makes a comment on how it all got started in the first place is clearly inadequate, in your eyes.

Did it ever, just possibly occur to you that I might be gay?

OH MY GOD! STOP THE PRESSES! NEWS FLASH!

Next time, when you're practicing your "I'm more activist-er and holier than thou" schtick, you might want to avoid the part in the lesson plan where you learn how to be a total prick to anybody else.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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Babbler # 3308

posted 07 February 2004 08:30 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Of course the fact is that the very Western elements that are the most dogmatic about oppressing the Middle East and Islam are precisely the most anti-gay elements of the West. And the most anti-feminist, for that matter.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 07 February 2004 09:56 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You could also throw in that many anti-abortion rights advocates are also in favour of capital punishment.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 07 February 2004 11:48 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
These "homosexuality comes from the decadent West" people are pathetic. They should read a European traveller's tale from a few hundred years ago. Those all go on about the homosexuality that abounded throughout the "decadent East."
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 08 February 2004 04:24 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Irony: What got imported from the west wasn't homosexuality. It was homophobia.

ROFL

Have you ever read Satyricon by Petronius (yes felini made it a movie.) Its wild. Two guys wander the middle east fucking everything that moves. More hetrophobia, than homophobia. There is a great scene where one of them is forced to have sex by priestess. Pretty funny.

Morals are like the weather.

[ 08 February 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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