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Author Topic: Palestinian militant turned peacemaker
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 28 January 2004 07:02 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"On the sixth day, everything went quiet," Walid told BBC News Online. "My father was listening to Arab radio and the news said: 'We cleansed Jerusalem of the Jews'. Then we opened the door and there was this Israeli tank with the Star of David flag standing in our street!"
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Milo_Hayes
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Babbler # 4718

posted 28 January 2004 09:24 PM      Profile for Milo_Hayes        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"From kindergarten we were taught that Jews were dogs," said Walid. "We were taught that Jews were the converts of monkeys, that Jews were Sabbath breakers and prophet killers. We even considered Arabs in pre-1967 Israel traitors because we could not understand how they could co-exist with Jews."

Mr. Shoebat is a brave man. It will take at least a generation to heal the poisonous wounds of the middle east.


From: Blueberry hill | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 28 January 2004 11:55 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm always amazed at how well religion can stop a working mind in its tracks. This is just another example of the poisonous nature of religious doctrine used in the service of supremacist thought.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4220

posted 29 January 2004 10:56 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
On the sixth day, everything went quiet," Walid told BBC News Online. "My father was listening to Arab radio and the news said: 'We cleansed Jerusalem of the Jews'. Then we opened the door and there was this Israeli tank with the Star of David flag standing in our street!"

Sounds like the Arab press was about as accurate back then as they are today.


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 30 January 2004 12:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Sounds like the Arab press was about as accurate back then as they are today.

About as accurate as the JP.

[ 30 January 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 30 January 2004 05:30 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

About as accurate as the JP.

[ 30 January 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]



That is simply untrue. The JP while maintaining a right of centre position is an indepedent newspaper from a country that cherishes a free press.

There is no counterpart whatsoever in any Arab nation.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 30 January 2004 07:05 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I kinda like, for example, Egypt's Al-Ahram.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 30 January 2004 07:31 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Al-Ahram's good. It was very good when it featured Edward Said's regular column.

Beirut's Daily Star is as fair and accurate as anything I've read from the West.

Then there's that young upstart, Al-Jazeera, of course.

This one's based in the US, but nevertheless it's witty and informative:
The Angry Arab News Service


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Milo_Hayes
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4718

posted 30 January 2004 07:32 PM      Profile for Milo_Hayes        Edit/Delete Post
Thomas, what do you think of this article?

quote:
The Israeli aggression will lead to the opposite effect
from what the great conspirators have in mind... the
Muslims are not the Tartars of the next generation, they
are not a hostile front for civilization, and they are not
a racist front like the Jews. Muslims are not against the
revival of the European Enlightenment [movement]...
Furthermore, the European Enlightenment movement came out
from underneath the wings of Avicena and ancient Islamic
thought. Islam was mistreated and blamed for things it has
no blame for. Israel is the real problem, she is the
radical, she is racism, and she is the religious blindness.
Israel is the plague of our time...and a terrorist state."

"The dilemma now is... to be or not to be... Unfortunately
there is no middle ground... either death or life with all
the risks involved. Allah wishes for this clash to happen,
as nothing in this world happens without his knowledge or
will."

"I tell our Arab brothers: Death is inevitable, don't die
dishonorably... Servants of Allah, hurry up and fulfill
your duty... The burden is heavy and the situation is
painful. [However], nothing compares to disgrace in the
Day of Judgment. Disgrace will not add a single day to
your lives, [while] courage will not take away a single
moment of them. These are things which were predestined
[for us]. The end is eternal life in heaven or in hell.
There is no middle ground."

Endnote:
(1) Al-Ahram, (Egypt), June 23, 2001.



Did Al Ahram print it?


From: Blueberry hill | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 30 January 2004 08:18 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Linner:
I kinda like, for example, Egypt's Al-Ahram.

You think Al Ahram is an independent newspaer in a country with a free press?

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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Babbler # 4881

posted 30 January 2004 08:52 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Milo:

I don't like everything that is written in Al-Ahram, any more than I like everything written in the Globe and Mail or Canadian Dimension or The Commenwealth! But Al-Ahram has consistently presented many facets of the inter-Arab conversation regarding Israel and the West. It has also allowed room for a secular perspective.

Mishei:

I am not lauding the great Egytian democracy, particularly as Mubarek now seems to be playing a dangerous game of cosying up to America and religious hard-liners at the same time. But maybe I admire all the more a paper dedicated to a plurality of views that holds to that mandate in a less than safe atmosphere. I admire that much more than I admire a chauvinist paper that parrots the Likud line at every turn and bleats about their freedom; freedom to do what? Say what those in power want you to say? Bravo.

As an aside, I read Haaretz online weekly and feel that it gives a very balanced view, while not trying to hide its Israeli identity and its commitment to Zionism.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 30 January 2004 09:56 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It would have been useful if MEMRI had supplied a link to Al-Ahram. I have seen other articles somewhat similar to this one that appeared in a publication that was called "Al-Ahram" although it was not the same paper as the one to which Thomas has linked. It may well be that this article did appear in the leading daily, even though the content of this article is unlike anything I've ever seen on its website.

Regarding MEMRI, what do babblers think of this article?

quote:
The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."


quote:
The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.


I'm sure we all agree that Israeli spooks are quite concerned with presenting fair and balanced coverage of the Arab press.

[ 30 January 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 30 January 2004 10:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You think Al Ahram is an independent newspaer in a country with a free press?

Where can I get a 'free press.' I have some things I'd like to say, and have them distributed widely.

As for the JP, isn't that the paper run by that Canadian guy who abandond his coutry of birth, the very one that made him a millionaire, so that he could have the Queen of England pin an ornanment on him. Isn't he also up on fraud charges? If that is the case, what kind of editorial balance can we expect from a paper run by a con-artist?

Funny, that I post an article about an Arab guy who is saying things that are more or less in line with the Israeli viewpoint, and Israel supporters can't get past bashing Arabs. Arabs just can't win for losing. They agree with you and then you bash the Arabs for something else. No wonder they blow themselves up, they just can't win.

Milo picked up on this, you Mishei just had to find another route to bash the Arabs.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4220

posted 30 January 2004 11:36 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm sure we all agree that Israeli spooks are quite concerned with presenting fair and balanced coverage of the Arab press.

Because they have that despot gene?

quote:
Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

And they make a full time job out of it too. But look at the website and judge for yourself:

Memri

quote:
Funny, that I post an article about an Arab guy who is saying things that are more or less in line with the Israeli viewpoint, and Israel supporters can't get past bashing Arabs. Arabs just can't win for losing. They agree with you and then you bash the Arabs for something else. No wonder they blow themselves up, they just can't win.

What are the things Walid Shoebat is saying that are more or less in line with the Israeli viewpoint? Not all Isrealis think the Arabs are fanatics who want to murder them, but many of them do. And not all Arabs hate the Isrealis, but many do.

Bashing the Arab press is not bashing the Arab people.


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 31 January 2004 12:41 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Linner:
Milo:

I don't like everything that is written in Al-Ahram, any more than I like everything written in the Globe and Mail or Canadian Dimension or The Commenwealth! But Al-Ahram has consistently presented many facets of the inter-Arab conversation regarding Israel and the West. It has also allowed room for a secular perspective.

Mishei:

I am not lauding the great Egytian democracy, particularly as Mubarek now seems to be playing a dangerous game of cosying up to America and religious hard-liners at the same time. But maybe I admire all the more a paper dedicated to a plurality of views that holds to that mandate in a less than safe atmosphere. I admire that much more than I admire a chauvinist paper that parrots the Likud line at every turn and bleats about their freedom; freedom to do what? Say what those in power want you to say? Bravo.

As an aside, I read Haaretz online weekly and feel that it gives a very balanced view, while not trying to hide its Israeli identity and its commitment to Zionism.



While I agree whole heartedly with your lasr staement and understand your feeligns about the JP, Al Ahram is just as rigid, touts its own party line, and can be just as Chauvinistic a voice for Islamic militants.

That said, Al Ahram would say nothing Mubarak wouldnt want it to say.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 31 January 2004 12:44 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:


Milo picked up on this, you Mishei just had to find another route to bash the Arabs.


No Cue, I'm bashing corrupt Arab despotic regimes run by self serving dictators.. Im sorry you are unable to tell the difference.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 31 January 2004 04:24 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What are the things Walid Shoebat is saying that are more or less in line with the Israeli viewpoint?

This is a common zionist description of Arab upbringing:

quote:
"From kindergarten we were taught that Jews were dogs," said Walid. "We were taught that Jews were the converts of monkeys, that Jews were Sabbath breakers and prophet killers. We even considered Arabs in pre-1967 Israel traitors because we could not understand how they could co-exist with Jews."

and this...

quote:
"I thought: 'How do you explain this?' Then I started thinking, really the Jews didn't do us any harm but we hated them and accused them of all this horrible stuff. I began to think more openly."

Mishei

quote:
No Cue, I'm bashing corrupt Arab despotic regimes run by self serving dictators.. Im sorry you are unable to tell the difference.

I come up with an Arab source that admits the above and then critiques his own culturally taught bigotry, and you come out with an attack on the entire Arab press. Not even a passing comment on what is being said by this courageous person and all you can come up with is an anti-Arab smear.

Bad form.

[ 31 January 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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