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Author Topic: No Sex contract for foreign workers in Israel
Mycroft_
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Babbler # 2230

posted 08 January 2004 03:17 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Chinese workers in Israel sign no-sex contract
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 08 January 2004 03:21 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 08 January 2004 05:02 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
eu·gen·ics ( P ) Pronunciation Key (y-jnks)
n. (used with a sing. verb)

n : the study of methods of improving genetic qualities by selective breeding (especially as applied to human mating) [ant: dysgenics]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 January 2004 02:05 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What if the Chinese converted to Judaism?
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
redshift
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Babbler # 1675

posted 08 January 2004 02:47 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
what makes you pre-judge that they must convert?

"Archeological evidence points to Jews in China as early as the 8th century. Many travelers, including Marco Polo in the 13th century, wrote of meeting Jews. In fact, during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), a Ming emperor conferred seven surnames upon the Jews, by which they are identifiable today: Ai, Lao, Jin, Li, Shi, Zhang and Zhao. Interestingly, two of these Shi and Jin are the equivalent of common Jewish names in the west: Stone and Gold."
http://servercc.oakton.edu/~friend/kaif3.htm

interesting about prejudice ,huh?


From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 January 2004 06:07 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, gee, if they're already Jewish, what's the problem?

[ 08 January 2004: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 08 January 2004 06:25 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are Chinese Jews but not all Jews are Chinese.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 12 January 2004 01:26 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah... Democracy at it's finest.
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 January 2004 02:37 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yabbut, if such contracts existed in the surrounding ARAB countries they would be MUCH worse!!!!


WHAT????

The CJC can't be EVERYWHERE, y'know!


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 12 January 2004 02:52 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Huh?

I think I missed something there.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 January 2004 03:00 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I was just --perhaps lamely, definitely with tongue in cheek-- anticipating the usual outrage from the usual suspects when criticism of the State of Israel appears in a Babble thread.
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2004 03:04 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 12 January 2004 03:16 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This "contract" is uncoscionable.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 12 January 2004 03:30 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
isn't it just aimed at protecting the Jewish nature of the state? It seems quite logical if the most important thing is ensuring the state remains Jewish.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 12 January 2004 03:32 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is such a policy racist?
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 12 January 2004 03:38 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is no question that this contract is unconscionable.

Why isn't it illegal?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 12 January 2004 05:17 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
There is no question that this contract is unconscionable.

Why isn't it illegal?


As was mentioned in the thread, my guess is that if it is ever challenged (there has to be a complaint/challenge just like here in Canada when a civil or criminal law is being violated)the contract will be struck down in any Israeli Court.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 12 January 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:

As was mentioned in the thread, my guess is that if it is ever challenged (there has to be a complaint/challenge just like here in Canada when a civil or criminal law is being violated)the contract will be struck down in any Israeli Court.



True, but that sort of evades the question. Such contracts could also be made illegal by a law passed by the Knesset.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2004 07:55 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Really? I wonder why it hasn't been in that case.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 12 January 2004 09:37 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:


True, but that sort of evades the question. Such contracts could also be made illegal by a law passed by the Knesset.


I am not sure that you can make laws in what is essentially a civil and not criminal matter. In Canada we have a quasi-judicial Human Rights commission to deal with such things but it too is complaint driven.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2004 09:40 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You can't make laws about civil matters?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 12 January 2004 09:42 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
I am not sure that you can make laws in what is essentially a civil and not criminal matter. In Canada we have a quasi-judicial Human Rights commission to deal with such things but it too is complaint driven.

Unless there is something specific about the constitution or democratic process in Isreal that I misunderstand, a law banning this kind of hiring practice could be passed -- assuming political will. We have employment standards legislation in Canada that was written and passed by appropriate governments.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 12 January 2004 09:44 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Would a contract like this be automatically illegal in Canada? I'm only asking this because I don't know.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 January 2004 09:46 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You can't make laws about civil matters?

IANAL and all, and so I could be wrong, but I think you can -- regardless of the fact that (at least in Anglo-American law) civil law is usually said to be based in precedent, and not statue law.

There are five essential elements to a contract, one of which is "lawful purpose." If, after a Charter challenge or similar, this provision of the contract was found to be unconstitutional, it would by definition be unlawful.

So it would then be a simple matter to pass a bill on the order of "Any contract which contains (provision X) is of no force or effect," blahbity blah.

Or so I guess.

[ 12 January 2004: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2004 09:50 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes. Our labour laws would prevent such an employment contract from being legally binding.

On the other hand, there may be different rules for migrant workers here in Canada, I'm not sure. And I seem to remember hearing that if you have no legal status in Canada other than a work permit, then even if your employer does screw you around, if you complain, then it will be addressed - however, you'd be cutting your nose off to spite your face because even though your employer might be punished, once you don't have a job, there goes your status.

Seems to me that's the reason why nannies hired that way can be so badly abused and exploited in Canada even if they come through the proper channels.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 January 2004 09:54 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Yes. Our labour laws would prevent such an employment contract from being legally binding.
On the other hand, there may be different rules for migrant workers here in Canada, I'm not sure.

There may be, but unless I'm wrong, the Supreme Court has ruled that where it says in the Charter of Rights "Everyone has the right to..." it means everyone -- including landed immigrants, migrant workers, refugee claimants, the works.

On the other hand, try filing a Charter challenge if you're a migrant worker or refugee claimant.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know what you mean, 'lance. What I was thinking is that even if you do win a case against a boss who violates labour laws, once you're out of a job, you have to leave the country.

This is what I mean when I say that nannies are faced with a big problem. I'm not sure of the details of individual cases, but I remember a few years ago reading about the way domestic workers are exploited. Let's say a nanny is being sexually abused by her employer but is only here on a work permit. If she reports her employer, sure, the employer will get in crap - but then she is out of a job, and she has to leave the country. So her choice is between giving in to sexual demands or being deported.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 January 2004 01:56 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
So her choice is between giving in to sexual demands or being deported.

Which is something these Chinese workers in Israel need not worry about.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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