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Author Topic: Olmert wants end to Occupation
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 06 December 2003 11:46 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ehud Olmert, Israel's Deputy PM and key confidant to Sharon has taken a bold and necessary step telling Israeli media that Israel must pull out of all the occupied territories.

Im sure most here will find some way to critisize or belittle this, although I hope Im proved wrong.

This is a very important move on the part of Olmert.

Ha'aretz


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 06 December 2003 11:49 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:

Im sure most here will find some way to critisize or belittle this, although I hope Im proved wrong.

Why do you insist on baiting on us like this, and then accuse us of being "touchy"?

I do hereby unequivocally condemn flood control.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2230

posted 06 December 2003 11:53 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
Ehud Olmert, Israel's Deputy PM and key confidant to Sharon has taken a bold and necessary step telling Israeli media that Israel must pull out of all the occupied territories.

Im sure most here will find some way to critisize or belittle this, although I hope Im proved wrong.

This is a very important move on the part of Olmert.

Ha'aretz


Mishei, do you not understand that what Olmert wants is to annex a good number of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and seize quite a bit of territory in the process? Don't you see why the Palestinians and the west would see this as unacceptable?


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 06 December 2003 11:56 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slim:

Why do you insist on baiting on us like this, and then accuse us of being "touchy"?

I do hereby unequivocally condemn flood control.


I call it predicting you call it baiting...here we have a brave step taken by a right winger. My hope would be that Babblers would find it in their hearts to accept the fact that there are many israelis like Olmert and more importantly he is definitely being groomed as a possible Likud leader. So instead of taking my "bait" tell me Im full of it and accept Olmert's move towards peace...that is if peace is indeed your goal as well.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 07 December 2003 12:00 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I call it predicting you call it baiting...

I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to. You're consistent, I'll give you that.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 07 December 2003 12:03 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slim:

I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to. You're consistent, I'll give you that.


And so are you especially at avoiding the subject.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 07 December 2003 12:08 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Normally I'm quite good at staying on point. But I'm not going to bother with this.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 07 December 2003 12:28 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
Normally I'm quite good at staying on point. But I'm not going to bother with this.
Of course not because we have a leading Israeli demonstrating a resolve towards peace. cant have THAT now can we???...noooo...well slim you betray yourself.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 07 December 2003 12:31 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
noooo...well slim you betray yourself.

As what?


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 07 December 2003 09:05 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Olmert says Israel should draw it's own borders, and that peace talks are useless.

Nice hero you've got there, Mishei.

quote:
Olmert said peace talks would be a waste of time. "If I believed there was a real chance of reaching a (peace) agreement, I would advise making the effort," he said, "but that is not the situation."

A true man of vision.

quote:
Olmert said Israel has two choices -- either to withdraw to the Green Line, the frontier before the 1967 Middle East war, or an "inclusive unilateral move ... where we define our borders that will in no way be similar to the Green Line."

Gee. I wonder if this 'unilateral move' will define the borders along the route of the new fence?

Olmert is a Likudnik, alright, but he's certainly not the left Likudnik that Haaretz article paints him. If he were, there's no way he'd be Sharon's second in command.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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Babbler # 2938

posted 07 December 2003 10:03 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"calling for a unilateral Israeli withdrawal from most of the territories, including neighborhoods on the outskirts of Jerusalem."

51% can be considered "most of the territories," so the devil is in the details, as they say. Nonetheless, it is a positive development.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 07 December 2003 10:13 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
"calling for a unilateral Israeli withdrawal from most of the territories, including neighborhoods on the outskirts of Jerusalem."

51% can be considered "most of the territories," so the devil is in the details, as they say. Nonetheless, it is a positive development.


Exactly Josh not that your friend above would even ever want to acknowledge that much.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 07 December 2003 10:44 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And are you going to acknowledge that Olmert has been talking about unilaterally defining a new border?

Considering that Sharon himself, like most Likudniks, talks peace to the West and war to the government, I'm not surprised at all that Olmert is quoted in one source as 'calling for' (whatever that means) some vaguely defined withdrawal-that-he-can't-make-happen-on-his-own, and in another as essentially saying Israel should unilaterally redraw its borders.

The true shame is that you, Mishei, don't ever seem to notice that, and continue to be tone-deaf to a full half of what Sharon's government says.

Here's my prediction: this talk of unilateral action by Likud members will increase over the next few months, after which Israel will try and redefine its border with the Occupied Territories to coincide with the barrier. Possibly timed to coincide with its completion.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 09 December 2003 04:14 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There have been 'Doves' before, and yet the Occupation continued, for 30 years and counting. This is likely a move meant to counter the effect of the Geneva Accords and the statements made by the military establishment recently. The effect of the Accords, and the criticism of Sharon's policies by the Army brass politically isolated Sharon's government generally, and his inner circle of ideologues most specifically.

Likud needs to reposition themselves (even if it's empty rhetoric, which I suspect it is) as the "Party of a Possible Solution" if it wants to form the next government in Israel. Moreover, it needs to make a perceived shift to the centre in order to garner the support of those who supported Likud only as the 'Party that will Bring Solutions' in the last elections, but who are put off not only by the warmongerers in the Cabinet, but by the aggressive politics of the more extreme members of his coalition, like the NRP and Shas.

The battle over 'the Future Peace' (which is forever postponed) is the oldest ideological story in Israeli politics.

To them I say, "Deeds, not Words."

To Mishei I say, "Fool you once, shame on them. Fool you twice, shame on you. Fool you three and four times and well, you're one of them fools.

[ 09 December 2003: Message edited by: Courage ]


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged

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