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Author Topic: Bombs target Jews in Turkish synagogues
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 15 November 2003 10:02 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And now Jews once again become the target of murderers. Antisemitism at its most vile.

Bombs target Jews in synagogues


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 15 November 2003 10:04 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought the Holocaust was antisemitism at its most vile.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 15 November 2003 10:31 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I thought the Holocaust was antisemitism at its most vile.
This isnt the time to be silly. Dozens of people were murdered as a result of antisemitic hatred and this is all you have to post??? I am saddened and thoroughly disgusted .


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 15 November 2003 10:44 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Horrible indeed. A huge toll of dead and injured.

We need to think of who would have an interest in doing this.

Of course, it is anti-Semitism, probably of the anti-Israel kind. But Turkey was a target too, maybe? Probably? And who is unhappy with Turkey right now?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 15 November 2003 10:55 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If only you felt the same anger toward Israeli treatment of Palestinians, Mishei. All racist hatred is most vile. And it is all the same.

But some, it seems, is more acceptable to you than others.

That some Muslim extremists can view Jewish worshippers as part of the larger war against Islam is wrong and tragic. But it is not much different than you defending the building of prison walls and the deprivation of Palestinian civilians and children as being valid as a means of "security."

Equally reprehensible

[ 15 November 2003: Message edited by: WingNut ]


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
mooose
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3439

posted 15 November 2003 02:03 PM      Profile for mooose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because Israel is a racist state, it is all to easy for one to assume that anti-Israelism equates with anti-Semitism.
From: canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 15 November 2003 02:50 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just to be clear, the attack on the synagogue is a moral outrage. Very sad.

However, I had just gotten through reading a thread where Mishei was yet again talking about how antisemitic it is to engage in comparative history (the political cartoons that relate Palestinians to other colonized and oppressed peoples over the ages), and it got my back up.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If the Holocaust was an untouchable, sacred event that can never be referred to or compared to in any way other than in reference to itself, then I find it hard to understand how something like this event in this thread can also be the most vile antisemitic act ever committed in the history of mankind.

Just trying to get the superlatives straight, that's all, so that I don't mistakenly refer to some future heinous event inappropriately.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 15 November 2003 02:53 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nasty bad. Tragic, too, that this happened in one of the cities/countries that gave Jews the most succour over the centuries of diaspora. In fact, there were thriving Jewish communities in Turkey before the Diaspora. There is a long history of Jews moving to Turkey (then the Ottoman Empire) to escape from outlying Byzantine Christian areas -- (Hungary, Greece, Bulgaria) where they were persecuted and/or expelled. In Istanbul, however, the Jewish population is largely made up of Sephardim who were welcomed by Sultan Beyezid II upon their expulsion from Christian Spain. Some of them can still communicate in an interesting pidgin of Ladino and Turkish which arose at that time.

This bothers me on a personal level too. I spent some time with members of Istanbul's Jewish community during an extended stay there. I deliberately sought them out through various means because I was curious about the history of their existence in Istanbul. Anyway, this is sad and angering.

[ 15 November 2003: Message edited by: Courage ]


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 15 November 2003 02:59 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Just to be clear, the attack on the synagogue is a moral outrage. Very sad.

However, I had just gotten through reading a thread where Mishei was yet again talking about how antisemitic it is to engage in comparative history (the political cartoons that relate Palestinians to other colonized and oppressed peoples over the ages), and it got my back up.

Also, you can't have it both ways. If the Holocaust was an untouchable, sacred event that can never be referred to or compared to in any way other than in reference to itself, then I find it hard to understand how something like this event in this thread can also be the most vile antisemitic act ever committed in the history of mankind.

Just trying to get the superlatives straight, that's all, so that I don't mistakenly refer to some future heinous event inappropriately.


I am shocked that you would so bold-faacedly try to present my thoughts in such an underhanded manner. I NEVER said that this act was "the most vile antisemitic act ever committed in the history of mankind". Why you would lie about this is beyond my comprehension.

When Jews are targeted for murder, I believe, as i stated in my original post that it is "Antisemitism at its most vile". How that equates to "the most vile antisemitic act ever committed in the history of mankind", is incomprehensible other than your wish to portray me as over the top and using this tragic terrorist attack to do so.

It is you who is abusing superlatives and trying to make me out as a culprit of language. G-D that's obnoxious!!

You Michelle have too sit back and ask yourself why you would act in such an ignorant manner towards me.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
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Babbler # 3278

posted 15 November 2003 03:08 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why do some of you Babblers set up Mishei to play the victim? It's the dead and wounded in Turkey who are the victims in these two horrible attacks. The targets were not Israeli, they were Jewish. IF you want to link it to Israeli policy - fine but why link it to Mishei's views on Israeli policy. You're just playing his game.

[ 15 November 2003: Message edited by: Non-partisan partisan ]


From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 15 November 2003 03:51 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mooose:
Because Israel is a racist state, it is all to easy for one to assume that anti-Israelism equates with anti-Semitism.

In this case, mooose, the murderers actualized that equation.

As non-p-p says, the bombers did not target Israelis; they targeted Jews, specifically Turkish Jews, but any Turkish Jews who happened to be in the area. That's anti-Semitism, any way you look at it.

The Tunisian bomb was also anti-Semitic, but one had the feeling that that target was picked simply because Tunisia is a "soft" target. In this case, one suspects that Turkey was a targeted target.

Turkey has allied itself -- unsteadily, but clearly -- with the U.S. in Iraq, so I assume there are a number of likely suspects here.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4089

posted 15 November 2003 04:52 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
[QBIt is you who is abusing superlatives and trying to make me out as a culprit of language. G-D that's obnoxious!![/QB]

This is a bit of a tangent, but Mishei, knowing that you are Jewish, I understand why you use G-D instead of "God." As I recall from high school religion courses, strict Jews will not write out the word "God."

My question, though, is why you have just started to do this. I can't remember you ever using "G-D" before now, and I remember quite a few times you have used the word "God" in full. Is there a reason for the change?


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 15 November 2003 05:36 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RookieActivist:

This is a bit of a tangent, but Mishei, knowing that you are Jewish, I understand why you use G-D instead of "God." As I recall from high school religion courses, strict Jews will not write out the word "God."

My question, though, is why you have just started to do this. I can't remember you ever using "G-D" before now, and I remember quite a few times you have used the word "God" in full. Is there a reason for the change?


No reason, sometimes I forget the proper Jewish way to utilize the term. While I am not an orthodox Jew, I am traditional and prefer to use the traditional spelling.


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josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 17 November 2003 10:52 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let me add my condemnation. Reminds me of the attack on the Jewish Community Center in Argentina about a decade ago. Ironically, this time it appears that more Muslims were killed in the bombing than Jews. Not that that matters.

I find it interesting that religious terror is most pronounced in the context of the Israeli-Palestine and Pakistan-India conflicts. Interesting in that these two conflicts each contain a religious state. Lesson? Secular democracy can best prevent these types of incidents.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 17 November 2003 02:16 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The bombings were disgusting. The perpetrators deserve contempt and worse. presumably the dead were people who specifically did not immigrate to Israel; that didn't help them against these fanatics.

Even if Israeli activities in the occupied territories are rotten to the core, they pale next to this.

Or are the Israelis bombing mosques in Pakistan, or Sudan, or Iran?


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 17 November 2003 02:29 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How I feel.

I wish people wouldn't feel so ready to resort to violence as a means to solving their problems, whatever they may be. I also wish people would see past their own prejudices and biases and see each other as beings with hopes, dreams, and desires, just as they themselves do.

At the end of the day, what's more important? Going home and knowing you did your part to make other peoples' existence better or going home knowing you ruined someone else's life?


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 17 November 2003 05:15 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Awful. Yes, it does remind me of the AMIA bombing in Argentina (a close friend of mine, who survived the Dirty War and whose parents fled the Warsaw ghetto, saw that atrocity).

And yes, of course, targeting 'Arabs' or 'Muslims'is just as bad.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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