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Author Topic: Israelis and Palestinians both wrong: Amnesty
Justice
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posted 13 November 2003 12:17 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
some food for thought

MONTRÉAL (CUP) — A speaker from Amnesty International accused supporters on each side of the Israeli-Palestinian debate of inconsistently condemning human rights abuses, underscoring the other side’s violations while failing to acknowledge their own.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 13 November 2003 12:18 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Shadow boxing again, huh?
From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 November 2003 12:28 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Don't mess with Muhammad.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 13 November 2003 12:45 AM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Git up, fool!"
From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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Babbler # 3877

posted 13 November 2003 12:46 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Shadow boxing again, huh?

Why?


I don't see what is so controversial about this?

Are the underpinnings of the speaker's statements in this article untrue?

Is it not time both sides take responsibility?

I for one think that it would be more positive if each side would take responsibility in the areas it has rather then just playing the blame game all the time


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 13 November 2003 01:09 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No scarecrow is safe from justice.
From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 13 November 2003 01:59 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israel has both areas.
From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 November 2003 02:05 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"Git up, fool!"

Oi, Mr. f. Do you wear a lotta gold chain?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 13 November 2003 02:50 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Justice, I believe you are merely restating the obvious. Welcome to Last Week!
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justice
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Babbler # 3877

posted 13 November 2003 12:18 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Israel has both areas.

Just curious what do you mean?

quote:
Israel has both areas.

It fine to have fun once in a while but if you really want to get anywhere stick to the issue. Attack the argument not the person.

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 13 November 2003 12:30 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, both sides suck. Thanks for the restatement of the completely obvious.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 02 December 2003 04:35 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A Perspective on Arafat.

quote:
Death, taxes and Arafat
The problem is, they are doomed to fail, just as the Oslo accords and all those plans put forward before and since were similarly doomed. If there is anything in this life that is certain, other than death and taxes, it's that Arafat and the empire of terror, corruption and hate he created will thwart all efforts for peace. All the goodwill in the world will not change this.

Despite the hot air expended promoting the various plans, most people in the United States don't seem to understand the Palestinian leader too well.

That makes the new biography of Arafat by think-tank scholar Barry Rubin and his wife, journalist Judith Colp Rubin, Yasir Arafat: A Political Biography, essential reading for anyone hoping to comprehend the situation.



From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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Babbler # 3493

posted 02 December 2003 10:21 AM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
That makes the new biography of Arafat by think-tank scholar Barry Rubin and his wife, journalist Judith Colp Rubin, Yasir Arafat: A Political Biography, essential reading for anyone hoping to comprehend the situation.

Anyone hoping to comprehend the situation, or anyone hoping to comprehend the situation from their point of view, including any bias they may have?


From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 December 2003 11:34 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm perplexed Doc.

You might be interested in this review of the book:

click

quote:
The Rubins offer very little insight but are never short on partisan folklore, political assertions, and, in some cases, outright slander. I could detail every single instance of the book's flaw, but they are so numerous that it would take a book of equal length. I have to wonder whether or not the authors, whom I presume are Jewish and supporters of Israel, allowed their personal views to get in the way of accuracy....

If the Rubins had put at least a minimal effort into analyzing the truth of the collapse of the peace talks, as they did in compiling into one volume a history of anti-Arafat propaganda, the book might have been worth reading.



From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 02 December 2003 01:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I wasn't going to make reference to any obvious factual errors, but they were clearly adhering to the pro-Israeli policy manual which says to trash Arafat by "pointing out that he has never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity", and one obvious error is they claim he rejected the Taba accords in 2001. I know of no such rejection.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 December 2003 03:25 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I'm perplexed Doc.

You might be interested in this review of the book:

click


And here are some other reviews:

click 1

click 2


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
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posted 02 December 2003 04:13 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That first list was rather amusing. Udner "related topics" this site includes "Terror and Liberalism," "Arafats War: The Man and His Battle for Israeli Conquest" (sounds fair and balanced...:rolleyes , and "The Crisis of Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror."

No bias there.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 02 December 2003 05:26 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
That first list was rather amusing. Udner "related topics" this site includes "Terror and Liberalism," "Arafats War: The Man and His Battle for Israeli Conquest" (sounds fair and balanced...:rolleyes , and "The Crisis of Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror."

No bias there.


Of course and your "click" is bias free...give me a break

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 December 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Everyone has a bias, Mish, and I didn't say Ray Hanania doesn't have one.

My guess is that his comedy is less unintentional than yours though.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 December 2003 09:25 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This article raises some interesting points that some here may feel very uncomfortable with.


quote:
It could be suggested that nationalism is a pernicious force. In which case one should oppose Palestinian nationalism as well. It could even be argued that though both claims are true and noble, it would have been better to pursue Jewish national rights elsewhere. But negating Zionism, by claiming that Zionism equals racism, goes further and denies the Jews the right to identify, understand and imagine themselves - and consequently behave as - a nation. Anti-Zionists deny Jews a right that they all too readily bestow on others, first of all Palestinians.


The Guardian


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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Babbler # 3192

posted 02 December 2003 10:50 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Jewish defenders of Israel are then depicted by their critics as seeking an excuse to justify Israel,

yes, that's generally what defenders do,

quote:

projecting Jewish paranoia

possibly, and it's well-earned paranoia,

quote:

and displaying a "typical" Jewish trait of "sticking together"

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I have NEVER seen this argument made by a critic of the occupation. NEVER. Straw man.

quote:
If Israel's critics are truly opposed to anti-semitism, they should not repeat traditional anti-semitic themes under the anti-Israel banner. When such themes - the Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, linking Jews with money and media, the hooked-nose stingy Jew, the blood libel, disparaging use of Jewish symbols, or traditional Christian anti-Jewish imagery - are used to describe Israel's actions, concern should be voiced.

Please point out an example of ANY of the above used by babblers. ANY. Straw man, again.

"Oh, I wasn't talking about Babblers, you just need to keep your eyes open, look into your hearts, blah blah." Spare us. We're not stupid; we know that shit when we see it, and suggesting we don't is just another attempt to smear us.

quote:
Is it necessary to evoke the Jewish conspiracy or depict Israelis as Christ-killers to denounce Israeli policies?

No, which is why we don't.

quote:
The fact that accusations of anti-semitism are dismissed as paranoia, even when anti-semitic imagery is at work, is a subterfuge.

Who is dismissing the blood libel or the use of the Star of David on the Nazi flag? Who?

quote:

Israel deserves to be judged by the same standards adopted for others, not by the standards of utopia. Singling out Israel for an impossibly high standard not applied to any other country begs the question: why such different treatment?

Possibly because Israel's supporters frequently point to it as a supposed utopia of tolerance and democracy, a "sister democracy" to places like Canada and the U.S., when it is demonstrably not the same?

quote:
Despite piqued disclaimers, some of Israel's critics use anti-semitic stereotypes. In fact, their disclaimers frequently offer a mask of respectability to otherwise socially unacceptable anti-semitism. Many equate Israel to Nazism, claiming that "yesterday's victims are today's perpetrators": last year, Louis de Bernières wrote in the Independent that "Israel has been adopting tactics which are reminiscent of the Nazis".

Inappropriate and wrong...

quote:

This equation between victims and murderers denies the Holocaust.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Bullshit. Look, I agree it's wrong, and it often is used to minimize the Holocaust (as when it's suggested that the Israeli occupation is worse than the Holocaust), but not to deny that it ever happened.

quote:
Others speak of Zionist conspiracies to dominate the media, manipulate American foreign policy, rule the world and oppress the Arabs.

Again: who?

quote:
Were you outraged when Golda Meir claimed there were no Palestinians? You should be equally outraged at the insinuation that Jews are not a nation. Those who denounce Zionism sometimes explain Israel's policies as a product of its Jewish essence. In their view, not only should Israel act differently, it should cease being a Jewish state.

This is a bullshit argument. No one is suggesting that Jews are not a nation. But every nation does not get its own state, with controlled immigration and ethnic quotas to preserve the nation's ethnic character.

As for "Jewish state" or "Jewish essence," what the hell does that mean? It's so vague it means nothing. Does it mean a state built on Jewish laws, and if so, which interpretation of Jewish laws? Does it mean a state where there are more Jews than any other ethnic group? A state with no non-Jewish citizens? A state with a mandate to provide a refuge for Jews?

quote:
Israel errs like all other nations: it is normal. What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation.

Oh, and we're back to the evil evil Arabs. Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. "And if with heathen folly/He dares your will dispute,/Then in the name of freedom/Don't hesitate to shoot."

Honestly, Mishei, you condemn the writer at jbuff.com for saying that all Canadian Jews are going to have to flee to the States because Canada has too many Muslims, but this shit is A-OK? What's the difference?


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4220

posted 02 December 2003 11:49 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Rubins offer very little insight but are never short on partisan folklore, political assertions, and, in some cases, outright slander. I could detail every single instance of the book's flaw, but they are so numerous that it would take a book of equal length. I have to wonder whether or not the authors, whom I presume are Jewish and supporters of Israel, allowed their personal views to get in the way of accuracy....

Unbelievable. Al-Q, for a guy who is sensitive enough to get worked up over the vaguest insinuations that the "left" might harbour any sort of anti-semitism whatsoever you sure can't see the forest for the trees.

Great review you've linked here. Oh there's just so many factual errors I won't even bother to mention any examples. And to have a negative opinion of Arafat, isn't that just like a jew huh? And if they're jewish, they're obviously supporters of Israel.

Why did you pick that quote from the review? Isn't this a more accurate depiction of Arafat?

quote:
If anyone symbolizes the hopes of the Palestinian people's drive for national identity, it is Yasir Arafat, the enigmatic, iconic leader in one of the most divisive international conflicts in the world today. From a desert hovel, armed with little more than his cunning, and working against all odds, Arafat crafted a revolutionary movement that has stared down the greatest world powers and forced Israel to accept what its founders insisted they would never allow: Palestinian national liberation.

[ 02 December 2003: Message edited by: worker_drone ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 December 2003 12:16 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are you saying the reviewer is an antisemite, drone?

So the reviewer said that he assumes the authors are Jewish. Is mentioning that someone is Jewish equivalent to antisemitism? What rubbish!

As for anyone's "sensitivity" about "vague insinuations" that leftists are antisemitic, are you serious? The "insinuations" have been anything but vague.

Again, check this link to the reviewer's site, read as fast or as slow as you wish, then come back with further backhanded accusations if you will.

If you want to call me an antisemite, why don't you stop slithering about, and just say it?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4220

posted 03 December 2003 02:22 AM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Are you saying the reviewer is an antisemite, drone?

No, but his tone and his choice of words could lead some to think so, no? I mean, if this were a critique of a biography of Netanyahu and the review presumed the authors were Arab wouldn't that rile you?

Besides, one can spout all kinds of racist nonsense without actually being a "racist", or an "anti-semite" or an "arab-hater" don't you think?

quote:
If you want to call me an antisemite, why don't you stop slithering about, and just say it?

I think you overly romanticize and simplify the conflict between Israel and the Arabs. But that doesn't make you an antisemite.


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 03 December 2003 02:44 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...his tone and his choice of words could lead some to think so, no? I mean, if this were a critique of a biography of Netanyahu and the review presumed the authors were Arab wouldn't that rile you?

Why? If the author's name were "Rashid", for example, it would be a logical conclusion.

quote:
Besides, one can spout all kinds of racist nonsense without actually being a "racist", or an "anti-semite" or an "arab-hater" don't you think?

No. Are you saying one would make racist statements in a spirit of the brotherhood of man?

quote:
quote: If you want to call me an antisemite, why don't you stop slithering about, and just say it?

I think you overly romanticize and simplify the conflict between Israel and the Arabs. But that doesn't make you an antisemite.


I'm so relieved.

Am I to suppose that you gleaned this opinion about any oversimplification and romanticism from my linking to a review?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 03 December 2003 08:33 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Please point out an example of ANY of the above used by babblers. ANY. Straw man, again.

"Oh, I wasn't talking about Babblers, you just need to keep your eyes open, look into your hearts, blah blah." Spare us. We're not stupid; we know that shit when we see it, and suggesting we don't is just another attempt to smear us.


Why is it that when others post articles for the interest of Babblers we don't infer that all or any Babblers subscribe to the theories of the author? However, when I post ANY article, you Smith and many others, immediatley assume that it is an attack on all Babblers.

I was clear in my message, I said that some here will find the article I posted uncomfortable to read as you inevitably did. However I did not say anywhere that any babbler has acted out these scenarios described.

I am constantly amazed at how touchy you and others become about articles where the issue of anti-Zionism and antisemitism is discussed.

[ 03 December 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]

[ 03 December 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 03 December 2003 11:02 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:

I am constantly amazed at how touchy you and others become about articles where the issue of anti-Zionism and antisemitism is discussed.

I don't know why you're amazed. You've worked very hard to make us that way.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 December 2003 11:06 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Why is it that when others post articles for the interest of Babblers we don't infer that all or any Babblers subscribe to the theories of the author? However, when I post ANY article, you Smith and many others, immediatley assume that it is an attack on all Babblers.

My guess is that it is because you have frequently collectively accused us here in Wonderland of wrongthink. Is there any reason why babblers shouldn't assume that your links are not meant to reinforce your more overt accusations?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
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Babbler # 4220

posted 03 December 2003 11:36 AM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No. Are you saying one would make racist statements in a spirit of the brotherhood of man?

No, merely out of ignorance, as evidenced by the review of the Arafat biography that you linked to.

Let me see if I get this straight Arch, you see nothing wrong with the review you posted (and any insinuations that the author might harbour anti-semitic leanings...well, that's just a dirty anti-arab smear right?) yet you blow your stack at the "smear job" Bnai Brith pulled on the federal NDP by demanding they denounce that "holocaust cartoon" circulated by a Saskatchewan NDP support. Nice double standard there.

Obviously, despite all your sniveling about how good and pure hearted every single member of the "left" is, you wouldn't know anti-semitism if it came up and spray painted swastikas on your grandfather's tombstone.

quote:
Am I to suppose that you gleaned this opinion about any oversimplification and romanticism from my linking to a review?

This and many of your other posts around here Lawrence of Saskatoon. Not to mention your straw man arguments, your constant badgering of Mishei and your wounded puppy act whenever somebody posts an article that criticizes your sacred cows, like your hero Arafat there.


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 December 2003 11:54 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Talk about straw man arguments.

I don't recall ever having said anything in support of Arafat, never mind having him as a hero.

As for "badgering" Mishei, he gives as good as he gets.

quote:
yet you blow your stack at the "smear job" Bnai Brith pulled on the federal NDP by demanding they denounce that "holocaust cartoon" circulated by a Saskatchewan NDP support. Nice double standard there.

Obviously, despite all your sniveling about how good and pure hearted every single member of the "left" is, you wouldn't know anti-semitism if it came up and spray painted swastikas on your grandfather's tombstone.


Again, I don't remember what I said, if anything, about the NDP cartoon. Really. Do you have a link?

And I have never said the left is "good and pure hearted" although I have frequently asked why Zionists are always trying to link leftists with antisemitism. There is a great difference.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 03 December 2003 01:06 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
Why is it that when others post articles for the interest of Babblers we don't infer that all or any Babblers subscribe to the theories of the author? However, when I post ANY article, you Smith and many others, immediatley assume that it is an attack on all Babblers.

You've just taught us very well as far as reading between the lines goes. You do very well at nearing up and making an implication and then dashing off like Speedy Gonzales the instant someone calls you on it.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 03 December 2003 01:33 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

You've just taught us very well as far as reading between the lines goes. You do very well at nearing up and making an implication and then dashing off like Speedy Gonzales the instant someone calls you on it.


Bullshit Doc. I have no problem saying what I mean and if I wanted to say that I posted this article because I feel most Babblers fit into the theoretical paradigm I would have not hesitated saying so.

I said that some here would feel uncomfortable reading it. And clearly I was right.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 03 December 2003 01:35 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:

I said that some here would feel uncomfortable reading it. And clearly I was right.

It isn't the article we're reacting to, it's your post.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 03 December 2003 01:56 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I am constantly amazed at how touchy you and others become about articles where the issue of anti-Zionism and antisemitism is discussed.

skdadl is torn: should she dissolve in hysterical laughter, or should she toss up?

I just want to know one thing: Smith! Have you stopped beating your wife??? Come come come. 'Fess up, now.

al-Q: you too.

And DrC: you're next.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
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posted 03 December 2003 02:15 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For our wickedness, our touchiness and our other innumerable sins, I believe a spanking is in order.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 03 December 2003 02:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Calling Dawna Matrix and Zoot Capri. Dawna and Zoot: to this thread, please.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 03 December 2003 04:01 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:

skdadl is torn: should she dissolve in hysterical laughter, or should she toss up?


If you dissolve in your usual hysterical laughter please be careful not to toss your cookies I wouldnt want you to choke on your own hypocrisy.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 03 December 2003 04:06 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just for the record: Mishei has accused skdadl of being a hypocrite. Mishei has offered no evidence of skdadl's hypocrisy: he has just expressed hostility, and the word he used to do it was hypocrisy.

skdadl's hypocrisy has yet to be demonstrated. About what was skdadl being hypocritical?

Demonstrating anything, though evidence, is a challenge for Mishei, but perhaps, one day, he will learn.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 03 December 2003 06:05 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Just for the record: Mishei has accused skdadl of being a hypocrite. Mishei has offered no evidence of skdadl's hypocrisy: he has just expressed hostility, and the word he used to do it was hypocrisy.

skdadl's hypocrisy has yet to be demonstrated. About what was skdadl being hypocritical?

Demonstrating anything, though evidence, is a challenge for Mishei, but perhaps, one day, he will learn.



Have you never linked to a message where you only wanted people to have the information? Is it possible that the article may have made people here on Babble uncomfortable? No, not Skdadl.

And by the way I can indeed see individuals as being hypocrites at times (G-D knows we have all acted hypocritically at one time or another) without being hostile. But I suppose you would have trouble understanding that. For the record.

[ 03 December 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 03 December 2003 06:13 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is a leftist board. Anything posted on here that refers to "the left" or "leftist arguments" without making specific references to particular writers (as the Guardian article did repeatedly, but not for all of the most vicious accusations) is going to be seen as a comment on Babblers, most of whom consider themselves leftists.

Really, this is elementary. If I linked to an article saying Zionists liked to portray Arabs as savages without qualifying that statement by pointing out particular Zionists who had done so, you'd be offended, wouldn't you?

quote:
I have no problem saying what I mean

You have multiple problems saying what you mean. Hence your extraordinarily frequent need to clarify your statements after the fact to people here on Babble.

quote:
And by the way I can indeed see individuals as being hypocrites at times (G-D knows we have all acted hypocritically at one time or another) without being hostile. But I suppose you would have trouble understanding that.

"And when I said you were a wife-beating asshole, I meant that in the good way..."

[ 03 December 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 03 December 2003 06:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:

Have you never linked to a message where you only wanted people to have the information? Is it possible that the article may have made people here on Babble uncomfortable? No, not Skdadl.

And by the way I can indeed see individuals as being hypocrites at times (G-D knows we have all acted hypocritically at one time or another) without being hostile. But I suppose you would have trouble understanding that. For the record.

[ 03 December 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


I'm sorry, Mishei: maybe I am a dummy; for sure I am really literal-minded.

But if I am a hypocrite -- and if I am, I really want to know it, because I don't approve of hypocrisy -- then you are going to have to show me where and how.

Please quote back to me the hypocritical statements I have made. Hypocrisy would mean that I've said one thing and then said or done another. Please give me the evidence.

I can't cope with sheer labelling. Really, I can't. Name-calling just defeats me.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 03 December 2003 06:54 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:

I'm sorry, Mishei: maybe I am a dummy; for sure I am really literal-minded.

But if I am a hypocrite -- and if I am, I really want to know it, because I don't approve of hypocrisy -- then you are going to have to show me where and how.

Please quote back to me the hypocritical statements I have made. Hypocrisy would mean that I've said one thing and then said or done another. Please give me the evidence.

I can't cope with sheer labelling. Really, I can't. Name-calling just defeats me.



Skdadl, you have posted many links here in the past as have I. Why is it that you are so free to jump down my back and assume I have an alternative plan to label people through my links EVEN WHEN I SO CLEARLY INDICTAE THE REASON I POST THE LINK?

I find it hypocritical that you post your links usually for the information of Babblers but can so easily accuse me of another motive.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 04 December 2003 12:21 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Sometimes on babble, I think that I should've studied metaphysics rather than the more mundane sciences. It would help with some of the exchanges above.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 04 December 2003 01:39 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Geez, skdadl. What's your problem? Mishei clearly said, twice, that he posted the link so that we "may feel very uncomfortable".

quote:
This article raises some interesting points that some here may feel very uncomfortable with.

He ended his sentence with a preposition.

Why doesn't he just drag his fingernails across the blackboard?

...the horror....the horror....


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 04 December 2003 01:40 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I find it hypocritical that you post your links usually for the information of Babblers but can so easily accuse me of another motive.

And what information, exactly, did you hope to transmit by linking to this article? The facts in it were few and far between; there were a lot of unsupported accusations about how leftists supposedly smear Jewish Zionists with the blood libel, but what exactly was there to learn? That many of Israel's Jewish supporters believe the left hates them because they are Jewish? We know that already, thank you.


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 04 December 2003 08:30 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Geez, skdadl. What's your problem? Mishei clearly said, twice, that he posted the link so that we "may feel very uncomfortable".

He ended his sentence with a preposition.

Why doesn't he just drag his fingernails across the blackboard?

...the horror....the horror....



My G-D I ended my sentenced with a preposition!!! So now on Babble we will all become the Grammar plolice, check your spelling everyone, check that syntax, watch those verbs..Audra or Michelle I think from now on you should take over and check all posts for grammar and spelling ..i think Al is too biased to do it properly. What do others think who should become the chief Grammarian here?

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 04 December 2003 08:56 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What do others think who should become the chief Grammarian here?


What do others think? Who should become the chief Grammarian here?

HTH,

Bri*

* Willing and able candidate for the post of chief Grammarian. I'd prefer to be called the Grand Puba Grammar Freak, if you please. BTW everyone, spelling/grammar flames are lame.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 04 December 2003 04:40 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Or maybe he meant "What do others, who should become the chief Grammarian here, think?"

Perhaps we should have a Grammarian Committee. We will conduct all our grammar-related meetings in the strictest privacy, come to decisions in secret, so we can appear as a united front - one mind from many - in public. We should give ourselves a nice institutional name, maybe something with a corporate tinge - I suggest GramCom.


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 04 December 2003 05:04 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I tender my application for the position of Grammar Admiral of the Universal Space Fleet.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 04 December 2003 05:56 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
My G-D I ended my sentenced with a preposition!!! So now on Babble we will all become the Grammar plolice...

Good grief Mish. I don't know whether to , or , or just sit here quietly and marvel at how earnestly you can miss a point.

The obtusiosity of your obtuseness continually amazes me.

'Twas a joke Mish. (But of course, you knew that, and were just playing along...right?)


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 04 December 2003 06:36 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What do others think who should become the chief Grammarian here?

I'm afraid that my position as token right-wing mascot could put me in a pontential conflict-of-interest should I be called to rule on issues.

Also, I don't want to interfere with my application for vacation-coverage moderator.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 04 December 2003 09:54 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, shall I conclude that this thread has outlived its usefulness?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 04 December 2003 10:04 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think the thread outlived its usefulness once "food for thought" was mentioned in the first post.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 04 December 2003 10:12 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's good enough for me.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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