babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


  
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » archived babble   » the middle east and central asia   » Arafat's corruption

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Arafat's corruption
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 09 November 2003 11:00 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just saw a report on CBS's 60 minutes on Arafat's financial dealings. There have been many accusations of Corruption in the PA but it is shocking to see the extent and the depth which it was shown in this report. And you can't say this report is biased Arafat's own finance Minster (a true hero for the Palestinians) was explaining how bad the situation was. Forbes even mentioned him as one of the 6th richest monarchs right after queen Elisabeth.

I wonder if people can take a step back moment and imagine what sort of lives the Palestinians could have had if not for this corruption.

I believe not only could the Palestinians have new homes for the ones lost but also there would be much less destroyed because the Palestinians would be building their economy and fighting wars sure Israel is a strain but it could have been much less and the Palestinians could have been far, far, far better off if not for Arafat. He was given a chance way to many chances it's time for change for the sake of the Palestinians.

You can say the occupation is bad and this could be true but this corruption is far worse then anything imaginable!

Just thought people should be aware.

[ 09 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 09 November 2003 11:04 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
a partial report
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 09 November 2003 11:18 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look, corruption is no small matter, however the assertion that, "You can say the occupation is bad and this could be true but this corruption is far worse then anything imaginable!" is ludicrous.

Utter nonsense.

[ 09 November 2003: Message edited by: Courage ]


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 09 November 2003 11:18 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:

You can say the occupation is bad and this could be true but this corruption is far worse then anything imaginable!

You have a very limited imagination.

To anticipate where you're going, I'll say it one more time and then bow out of the thread because I'm tired of repeating myself. It's entirely possible that Arafat is corrupt and that the Palestinians have been vicitimized by him. That in no way changes the fact that innocent Palestinians have also been vicitimized by the IDF, the settlers and the Israeli administration. Wrongdoing on the part of Arafat IN NO WAY justifies or excuses wrongdoing by the Israeli government, the IDF or the settlers.

Have a nice night.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 09 November 2003 11:56 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't justify Israel's wrong doings and I won't. It certainly has many

All I'm saying is that there is a huge contribution on Arafat's side to the suffering which could have been greatly reduced this can not be ignored.

If not for this corruption there would be far less terrorist in Israel the economy of the Palestinians would have flourished. He robed the Palestinians of their hope and freedom.

They would have had there own hospitals and wouldn't have to go through Israeli checks to reach hospitals they could have had state of the art schools. Sure Israeli force didn't help and even made things worse but it's time you see the extent of others responsibility you can not put all the blame on one side this more then proves it. I'm really not trying to justify Israel but it's time to take a closer look at the whole problem and the many other factors contributing to the Palestinian suffering

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 10 November 2003 12:23 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:
[QB]I didn't justify Israel's wrong doings and I won't. It certainly has many

All I'm saying is that there is a huge contribution on Arafat's side to the suffering which could have been greatly reduced this can not be ignored.


Agreed. However, your assesment of the value of absconded funds is without basis.

quote:
If not for this corruption there would be far less terrorist in Israel the economy of the Palestinians would have flourished. He robed the Palestinians of their hope and freedom.

This is impossible to know, first of all. Moreover there are no hard numbers to back such a claim up. Certainly the Palestinian economy didn't 'flourish' under Israli control. Moreover, regardless of the value of funds stolen, the matter of freedom is a political one. More money would not give the Palestinians a state, or freedom.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 10 November 2003 12:35 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nor would more money suddenly make Sharon sit up and say "it is time to end the occupation, the humiliations, the brutality, the missile strikes and evict the settlers and arrive at a just and lasting peace."
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 10 November 2003 12:39 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now, now, Wingy, don't go bringing that up....
From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 12:40 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
This is impossible to know, first of all. Moreover there are no hard numbers to back such a claim up. Certainly the Palestinian economy didn't 'flourish' under Israeli control. Moreover, regardless of the value of funds stolen, the matter of freedom is a political one. More money would not give the Palestinians a state, or freedom.


First there are plenty of hard numbers just ask the Palestinian Finance minister and his team of investigators. It's not perfect because Arafat does his best to set up obstacles for them but anyway I think they got it close enough.

Second I'm not justifying Israel's occupation. Terrorism does not justify occupation. Occupation does not justify terrorism. Each government has the capability to restrain its own people. I'm tired of hearing people say Arafat can not control the terrorist because of Israeli occupation. Arafat has just as much control over his people as Sharon over his own if not more than Sharon.

Israel's occupation as a contribution to terrorism is not enough to explain all the attacks on Israel. And even going to explain Israel's occupation because I don't think that it's justified.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 12:43 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"Nor would more money suddenly make Sharon sit up and say "it is time to end the occupation, the humiliations, the brutality, the missile strikes and evict the settlers and arrive at a just and lasting peace."

It might be enough for the Israelis to say hey there really making an effort and taking responsibility its time to pull are asses together and get rid of Sharon.

Not that one side should wait for the other. Both things should happen immediately regardless of the others moves


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787

posted 10 November 2003 01:08 AM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post
At least Arafats money is still around somewhere and with a bit of luck it will end up being usefull for the Palistinians in the future when they do not have to live in the fear of it being buldozed flat. The money, Israel has spend on nuclear instalations, weapons aquisition and research, is truly wasted, and probably will keep future generations indebted for generations to the USians. It is not that Israel has no problems with poverty. I stand to be corrected but does not one third of the Israelies live below the poverty line.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 10 November 2003 01:22 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Arafat has just as much control over his people as Sharon over his own if not more than Sharon.

How do you figure?


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 10 November 2003 01:27 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Go opening cans of worms...

Ariel Sharon Questioned about Corruption.

CBC had a piece about the bulldozer's dodgy finances last week.

None of this, of course, excuses Arafat, if the allegations are true.

I'm puzzled, though. Why is Arafat living in a pile of rubble surrounded by enemies, with snipers, tanks and artillery pieces aimed at him?

Wouldn't a garden-variety corrupt bazillionaire high-tail it to the Riviera and live off his largesse?

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 10 November 2003 01:38 AM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Smith:

How do you figure?


He has an Omnipotence Spell Level 1,000,000 that he can cast from his beseiged hovel in Ramallah.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 01:43 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
At least Arafats money is still around somewhere and with a bit of luck it will end up being usefull for the Palistinians in the future when they do not have to live in the fear of it being buldozed flat. The money, Israel has spend on nuclear instalations, weapons aquisition and research, is truly wasted, and probably will keep future generations indebted for generations to the USians. It is not that Israel has no problems with poverty. I stand to be corrected but does not one third of the Israelies live below the poverty line.

One fifth and this is a real problem. I for one would really like more to be spent on welfare, Education and social programs rather then on settlements at least the Israelis have some. Some which are better then American social programs and many other western nations.. Sadly thanks to Arafat the Palestinians have none. Yes the Israeli's help but Arafat's been doing a pretty good on his own. Anyways what future will the Palestinians have if they don't start now?

Israel has a better economy then most of its neighbors thanks to Rabin opening trade with other Arab states it mutually benefited both Israel and it's trading partners brought about the idea and possibility for peace.

quote:
"Go opening cans of worms..."

He stole some money, he has been under constant investigation and hopefully we will get to the bottom of this soon and be rid of him soon.

We have only now started to investigate Arafat seriously the true extent of his thievery is not yet know but so far it dwarfs Sharon in fact I think it dwarfs almost any thief imaginable even bush.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 01:50 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"How do you figure?"

how do I figure? Hmm lets see he took twice the guns that were agreed upon in Oslo. He has over a billion dollars he can invest. He uses it to make sure his forces are loyal only to him. He doges his finance Minster when ever he can he didn't have there even until the Israeli's who screwed up put pressure on him and Americans too. Oh and he has used money in order to get people to rally around him for support. If he can do all that I think he has what it takes to take real control of the situation on his own side. Don't expect him to bulldoze blockades back or to stop all the terrorist I don't expect the end of Israeli occupation to stop to terrorists but by both happening and only by both can terrorism greatly be reduced and Palestinians start to have normal life each of these factors are contributors to the situation.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 10 November 2003 04:09 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

I'm just a little shocked to see some pro-Israel argument without Mishei even saying a word...

In any case, corruption is a problem in many governments, I don't see why Arafat is special for being a slimeball. Of course his "leadership" has been nothing but counter-productive in terms of peace, but it is a pretty big leap to imply that because he is a corrupt piece of shit that he is the worst thing ever to happen to the middle east.

The Sharon regime does not exactly have clean hands and you know it.

The removal of Arafat and his minions I beleive is important to the peace process. But that alone will not solve the problem. The Likuds (or at least their more extremist supporters) also need to be removed from power.

IMHO, the best solution is two seperate states with Israel having a right to exist as a Jewish state, as per the 1967 UN borders, with Jerusalem being an international city like the Vatican.

The Jewish settlers in the "occupied lands" must be allowed to stay as long as they accept falling under Palestinian borders. Or if they do not accept that, they should be relocated to somewhere within Israel proper free of cost to them (the cost of moving will be divided evenly between the states of Israel and Palestine).

From Arafat's corruption to my dream for peace... God bless thread drift.

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Gir Draxon ]


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2230

posted 10 November 2003 04:42 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Isn't Sharon still under investigation for corruption? Something about his son funnelling funds from South Africa?

How did Sharon, a man who has spent his entire professinal life either in the military or in politics become a wealthy man?

And didn't Moshe Dayan become wealthy by illegally trading in antiquities?

I guess corruption isn't important when it happens among Zionists.

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Mycroft ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 09:47 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In any case, corruption is a problem in many governments, I don't see why Arafat is special for being a slimeball. Of course his "leadership" has been nothing but counter-productive in terms of peace, but it is a pretty big leap to imply that because he is a corrupt piece of shit that he is the worst thing ever to happen to the middle east.
The Sharon regime does not exactly have clean hands and you know it.
The removal of Arafat and his minions I beleive is important to the peace process. But that alone will not solve the problem. The Likuds (or at least their more extremist supporters) also need to be removed from power.
IMHO, the best solution is two seperate states with Israel having a right to exist as a Jewish state, as per the 1967 UN borders, with Jerusalem being an international city like the Vatican.
The Jewish settlers in the "occupied lands" must be allowed to stay as long as they accept falling under Palestinian borders. Or if they do not accept that, they should be relocated to somewhere within Israel proper free of cost to them (the cost of moving will be divided evenly between the states of Israel and Palestine).
From Arafat's corruption to my dream for peace... God bless thread drift.


I agree a 100% with you Gir Draxon as far as the 2 state solution and goes. I also never said that Sharon's hands were clean never said the Israel's were angles that could do no harm but your all missing the point the magnitude of Arafat's corruption common 6 richest Monarch. Sharon we might be talking about a million in to his own pocket versus about a billion to Arafat's own pocket.

quote:
Isn't Sharon still under investigation for corruption? Something about his son funnelling funds from South Africa?
How did Sharon, a man who has spent his entire professinal life either in the military or in politics become a wealthy man?
And didn't Moshe Dayan become wealthy by illegally trading in antiquities?
I guess corruption isn't important when it happens among Zionists.

sure it's important that why there investigations being done far more serious on the part of Israel and it's transparency then the PA's can't you see the difference.Sharon has been under investeagation for quite a while.

I'm willing to accept terrorism to much of the Israeli actions in the west bank and Gaza but not only is corruption unjustified it is also far greater on the PA's side.

Sadly though what many of you are saying is lets ignore Arafat the PA can't be held to any responsibility only the Israeli's and Americans because they are the big bad supper powers nobody can be worse.

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 10 November 2003 10:46 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Most of the money, which came from revenue in the budget, went into 69 commercial activities in Palestinian areas and abroad, said Karim Nashashibi, IMF resident representative in the West Bank and Gaza.

Just a quibble - don't trust the IMF. Ever. They have a dishonourable history of smearing governments which follow formulae that deviate from the privatize, privatize, privatize mantra.

quote:
Nashashibi did not elaborate on the types of businesses the Palestinian Authority was involved in. Palestinian Finance Minister Salam Fayad has said its interests ranged from cement to telecommunications holdings in Algeria and Jordan.

Nashashibi disclosed the Arafat account and figures to reporters at a news conference on the economic situation in the West Bank and Gaza. He said the information provided by the Palestinians was an example of the openness and transparency in Palestinian finances under Fayad.


Throughout that article, the accounts jump from being "Palastinian Authority" accounts and "Arafat" accounts. Perhaps this is simply sloppiness on the writer's part. Maybe there is no substanstive difference between personally held Arafat accounts and government held PA accounts.

quote:
Official Palestinian figures show that investment in the Palestinian private sector amounts to about $300 million. The money was funneled in the past through a fund operated by Arafat's financial adviser, Khaled Salam.

Nashashibi said that the Palestinian Authority was involved in commercial activities, both at home and abroad, worth an estimated $700 million in today's market prices, "which probably in '99 were $900 million."


So, what this means is that Arafat's "stolen money" is actually money that has been invested partially in the Palestinian economy. Such as the now useless Gaza Airport, perhaps? And the various ministries which once existed within the PA (and are now effectively defunct). It also means that the PA holdings are worth about $900 million. Not Arafat, the person, but the PA. No doubt, Arafat has his mitts in some of this, but to jump from 'the PA is involved in commercial activities worth maybe $900 million' to 'Arafat has sequestered $900 million meant for the Palestinian people' is a bit of a leap.

Now, if it turns out that Arafat 'owns' all of these investments, and that it was set up just to line his own bank accounts, then yes, that is a very bad thing. That connection needs to be made clear, however. Until such a time, 'Arafat has siphoned off $900 million' as a statement is either an exagerration or an outright lie. And it still doesn't excuse The Apartheid Wall, continued settlement expansion, home demolitions, nor the indiscriminant firing of missiles into crowded streets.

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 10 November 2003 02:29 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought I smelled a rat. Thanks, Sarcasmobri!

The 'Arafat = corrupt' thing always did seem to have a bit of an urban-legend type flavor to it.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 10 November 2003 02:35 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No financial wizard I, but a lot of things about the 60 Minutes segment bothered me as I watched it, and Sarcasmo has clarified a few of them.

One immediate puzzle to me: that one-billion figure putting anyone that high up on the list of the world's richest individuals. I cannot believe that. I am sure there are many many more than six billionaires. The show did not make clear what that list was, but it sounds suspect to me.

There were a lot of things that weren't clear in that segment. All that seemed truly nailed down was Lesley Stahl's blinding-white grin throughout.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Art J
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2259

posted 10 November 2003 02:11 PM      Profile for Art J     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CBS is corrupt. I noticed this in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq.
From: British Columbia Inc. - Let us Prey | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787

posted 10 November 2003 10:46 PM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post
Goes to show, don't watch TV, read 'babblers' instead.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 10 November 2003 11:06 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:

I'm just a little shocked to see some pro-Israel argument without Mishei even saying a word...

[ 10 November 2003: Message edited by: Gir Draxon ]



Mishei, Justice et al aren't we all the same anyway?

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 10 November 2003 11:55 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
One immediate puzzle to me: that one-billion figure putting anyone that high up on the list of the world's richest individuals. I cannot believe that. I am sure there are many many more than six billionaires. The show did not make clear what that list was, but it sounds suspect to me.

They did not say he was the worlds six richest man they said he was the worlds six richest king, queen or despot. They did not compare him to Bill Gates or those rich monopolistic capitalist exploiters. Your argument is false not only by looking at the wrong but also as many have done by nitpicking.

quote:
Throughout that article, the accounts jump from being "Palastinian Authority" accounts and "Arafat" accounts. Perhaps this is simply sloppiness on the writer's part. Maybe there is no substanstive difference between personally held Arafat accounts and government held PA accounts.

Yes I'm sure the 100,000 a month Arafat's wife in Paris gets is really benefiting the Palestinians along with the many foreign bank accounts Arafat has spread across the world. Yes he's just keeping it safe for the Palestinians providing them with financial security. It's the least he can do the terrorist attacks on Israel and he's lobbying to the UN have done a lot to improve the Palestinians physical security. Right???!!!

I have know doubt that in the Palestinian authority there are good people like the newly appointed finance Minster but it is going to be a while before things change sadly because sadly his hands are tied behind his back. If a Man like this were the leader of Palestinians not only am I sure the Palestinians would have had a state by now but the would have had on of the best a most just economies in the Middle East.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 November 2003 09:10 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Yes I'm sure the 100,000 a month Arafat's wife in Paris gets is really benefiting the Palestinians along with the many foreign bank accounts Arafat has spread across the world.

This wife thing was not mentioned in the article you posted. I did not see the 60 minutes report, so I have no clue what you are speaking of. Please post a link describing Arafat's wife's $100,000 per month payments, so I can be sure you are not talking out of your ass.

quote:
Nashashibi disclosed the Arafat account and figures to reporters at a news conference on the economic situation in the West Bank and Gaza. He said the information provided by the Palestinians was an example of the openness and transparency in Palestinian finances under Fayad.

Nashashibi did not rule out the possibility that a portion of the money was misused. He said he believed an accounting of the rest of the money would be conducted "at some point, but we're taking it all a step at a time."


My emphasis. Draw your own conclusions as to why I hilighted that sentence. Proof is a useful tool in these cases. Like I said earlier, I have suspicions that Arafat is corrupt. How could I not have suspicions? He has near absolute power in the PA. This article didn't sell me on his guilt, however. Until I see more damning evidence, I'm going to have to assume that the $900 million figure is a gross exagerration, especially considering the sources of it.

A truly balanced story would mention Sharon's dirty dealings. (I'm just being ironic now)

Once again, nobody has shown me why Arafat's corruption makes it ok to fire missiles into crowded markets, drop bombs on inhabited apartment buildings, or rip up water wells serving Palestinian homes and farms. Maybe I missed a connection somewhere.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 11 November 2003 10:40 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Please post a link describing Arafat's wife's $100,000 per month payments, so I can be sure you are not talking out of your ass.

Here's a link referring to the 60 Minutes piece on Arafat, complete with the assertion that his wife receives 1.2M per year to live in Paris.

To get the full story & sources, you might have to have watched the show.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 11 November 2003 11:08 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Once again, nobody has shown me why Arafat's corruption makes it ok to fire missiles into crowded markets, drop bombs on inhabited apartment buildings, or rip up water wells serving Palestinian homes and farms. Maybe I missed a connection somewhere.

Did I say it was o.k.? I won't even try to because I don think it is. I don't think you'll find many people who will say its o.k. And furthermore you're sidelining the issue. I was trying to show how they are other sources to the Palestinian suffering you can which is a greater contribution but not that this issue has no effect.

quote:
This wife thing was not mentioned in the article you posted. I did not see the 60 minutes report, so I have no clue what you are speaking of. Please post a link describing Arafat's wife's $100,000 per month payments, so I can be sure you are not talking out of your ass.


US television documentary: Arafat's wife, daughter live in Paris on expense of Palestinian aid money

There are other sources but this should be good start at least you can see that I did not make this up. I think your acting a little naïve or you just want to deny it because the truth is to hard to face. You are acting like an Israeli who thinks the IDF can do no wrong. The point is both side can do egregious wrong doings not only to each other but themselves. If both sides would focus on what they can fix in their own societies maybe there would be less violence and I stress both.

Shopping list of charges

More sources

quote:
The new report coincides with a BBC documentary, also to be screened tonight, which claims the Palestinian Authority is paying members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, an armed militia responsible for carrying out suicide attacks against Israelis, up to $50,000 (£29,000) a month.

Isn't the BBC a reliable Left leaning source?

[ 11 November 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 12 November 2003 09:55 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You don't understand.

The Al-Bawabi 'story' is not investigative, it simply repeats the allegations of the 60 minutes piece. Three sentences of the four in the article begin or end with some variation of "according to the 60 minutes report". The fourth states factually that Arafat's wife lives in Paris.

The second report comes from Mossad. It is probably the only useful thing you've linked, Justice. Unfortunately, it's hard to conceive of Mossad as an unbiased source. I will peruse their list later.

The Telegraph story is also simply a summary piece from the 60 minutes report. I'm happy to see that reporters from around the world have the time to watch TV and summarize the findings of other people's work. It instills great confidence in the reporting profession to see these people making such great hay out of other people's work.

The BBC is a very balanced source. I really wish you'd linked them in one of your posts, so I could see what they really said, not what the Telegraph claims they said.

I really do wish that I'd been home to watch the 60 minutes report. Firstly, I'd be better positioned to accept their claims if I'd seen the evidence presented. Secondly, I could've written a nice summary of their report and ended up on page three or four of the Daily News. That seems the fashion among print reporters today.

I don't have blinders on. I'm simply questioning the evidence that was put forward. I'm going to try to find a transcript of the 60 minutes programme. You'll note that in my earlier post, I state that Arafat is probably corrupt, but that the regular pro-Israeli attackers here have yet to post anything but allegation. That is still true. Post something factual and firsthand! How hard is that?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 12 November 2003 11:03 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
1. I also am prepared to believe that Arafat is corrupt; I know that his wife and child are living in Paris in some luxury; but mainly I am accepting these things on faith, as a congenital sceptic, because:

2. The 60 Minutes program documented almost nothing. It ran entirely on the reputation of the new finance minister. When interviewed, he spoke in generalities. He looks and sounds like a nice man, and he may be right; but the show gave us no hard evidence to run with. It was all: He says so, so it must be true.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca