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Author Topic: How martyrs are made
Mishei
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posted 12 October 2003 02:30 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This column from Margaret Wente of the Globe is sad, very sad.

I know many here dislike Wente however if what she has researched is true (and I would ask those naysayers to demonstrate with PROOF if it is not true)then Arafat and his minions are encoraging a cult of death and murder.

How martyrs are made


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 12 October 2003 03:02 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
I know many here dislike Wente however if what she has researched is true (and I would ask those naysayers to demonstrate with PROOF if it is not true)then Arafat and his minions are encoraging a cult of death and murder.


The problem is that by following logic, you can not prove a negative. In fact, you have not PROVED that it is true, so you don't have the authority to pass off the burden of proof to the other party.

The music videos in question: what is the difference between these and videos ffrom black gangster rappers in America that advocate the murder of police? Both are defined by a racial struggle, but because we can sympathize with the class struggle of the poor blacks in our world, we accept the videos as an outlet of expression, and not a call to murder. I don't think these videos necessarily promote suicide bombings as they are a final artisitc outlet for humiliated Palestinians.

Wente writes, "In fact, the only goal seems to be to get rid of the Jews. The message is that all of Israel, not just the territories, belongs to the Palestinians. Palestinian textbooks don't even show the state of Israel. The entire region is depicted as greater Palestine. " Someone writing with a different political bias could say the exact same of the Israelis. Israeli maps do not show Palestine, they show disputed territories.

If Palestinians only change it on a map they are in much better moral conscience than the Israelis that change the borders in reality with concrete walls and razor wire.


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lagatta
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posted 12 October 2003 03:25 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In the case of the most recent suicide bomber, she had a very clear motive - the "targeted killing" of her brother and cousin. She was very close to them. Nothing to do with a desire for paradise with beautiful Houris. And she was extremely intelligent and highly educated - not the type to be swayed by music videos or silly demagogy.

There was a very insightful story about this tragedy on the Guardian website today - I'll try to go back and get it. In no way does the reporter justify the horror of suicide bombings but he gives a rational explanation of such atrocious acts.

Wente is a fine writer, but since September 11th she has crossed the line from a quirky contrarian who tended to be conservative to a fanatical apologist for the Bushites.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 12 October 2003 03:34 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think is the Guardian story lagatta referred to.

The revenger's tragedy: why women turn to suicide bombing


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 12 October 2003 03:36 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The usual explanation for what motivates people like Ms. Jaradat is despair and revenge. There was plenty of that. A few months ago, Israeli soldiers killed her older brother and a male cousin. The family says they have no idea why, but the Israelis say they were Islamic Jihad terrorists.

This is the one part where Wente acknowledges some kind of connection between Israeli actions and the recruiting efforts of groups like Hamas & IJ.

I'm not overly critical of this piece, though I'm sure it's part of Maggie's ongoing efforts to prove that It's All The Palestinians' Fault. Myself, I've always rejected the notion that "revenge" and "despair" are adequate explanations for the appalling tactic of suicide bombings. The despair & anger among Palestinians are perfectly real, of course, and usually perfectly justified, considering the abominations, abuses and humiliations the Israelis routinely heap upon them.

But "anger" and "despair" don't automatically lead someone to obliterate themselves and take many innocent people with them. You never saw people from East Timor, for instance, strapping explosives to themselves and blowing themselves up in Indonesian marketplaces. Suicide bombing as a tactic IS actively and systematically promoted, and the bombers actively recruited, by an organized network of deranged extremists. The bombings are NOT spontaneous emotional outbursts. And those organizers and recruiters have to be held to account, and condemned unequivocally.

And yes, the Palestinian media are appalling, just like most of the media in the rest of the Arab world.

Absolutely none of which, of course, excuses the wanton brutality and indiscriminate killing by the Israeli authorities. Which, naturally, just enhance the extremists' recruiting efforts, in a perfectly predictable way. Sharon and Hamas feed off each other. Anyone can see that.

As to Palestinian culture, things are maybe not as bad as Wente indicates. There was a poll recently, I can't remember where, that showed that the majority of Palestinians would accept Israel's existence if it were part of a genuine two-state settlement. If extremist and anti-Semitic attitudes really are as prevalent in the territories as Wente's article suggests, such attitudes are clearly exacerbated by Sharon's current violent and ultra-hardline tactics. Extremism begets extremism.

If Israel were to take a more sane approach -- no expansion of settlements, no Berlin Wall, no bulldozings, no missiles fired into apartment buildings, no tanks smashing thru refugee camps as we see today -- I suspect Palestinian attitudes would soften somewhat.

But Sharon knows that -- which is why he keeps doing what he does.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 12 October 2003 03:39 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And yet no one here appears critical of The PA for their role in supporting terror as seen here?? Shaking my head in horror, anger and disbelief...
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pogge
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posted 12 October 2003 03:51 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishei, beluga2 just finished writing:

quote:
And yes, the Palestinian media are appalling, just like most of the media in the rest of the Arab world.

Read first, shake your head later.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 12 October 2003 04:18 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slim:
Mishei, beluga2 just finished writing:

Read first, shake your head later.


With the flood control I must have missed it. Well at least one critic any more?

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 12 October 2003 04:23 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I notice you waited exactly one hour and nine minutes after starting the thread to come back and issue a blanket condemnation because people aren't lining up to respond in exactly the manner you deem suitable.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 12 October 2003 08:51 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
And yet no one here appears critical of The PA for their role in supporting terror as seen here?? Shaking my head in horror, anger and disbelief...

While what you say might be true, the position you enunciate it from is false...


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DrConway
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posted 13 October 2003 10:22 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
And yet no one here appears critical of The PA for their role in supporting terror as seen here?? Shaking my head in horror, anger and disbelief...

Well, Mishei, as much as it may surprise you I spent this weekend at my mother's place where the connection is dialup only. So I wasn't around to find out you wanted me to rush to this thread at your beck and call to breathlessly gasp out my horrified condemnation of the PA.

Oh yes, and you might also take into consideration that my car's engine threw a rod today and is now basically scrap so you'll forgive me if I'm a little bit disinclined to say "yes, baas, the PA is a baaaaaaaaaaaad thing."


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 14 October 2003 11:17 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When will Meshei start condemming Israel for it's part in this mad cycle of murder and violence??

Will it take longer than 1 hour and nine minutes??

Mishei, if there were no people like you blaming everthing on the Palestinains, then there would be no need for other people to point out that Israel was also at fault!!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 14 October 2003 11:41 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
And yet no one here appears critical of The PA for their role in supporting terror as seen here?? Shaking my head in horror, anger and disbelief...
And your apologetic nature for the Israeli government, is not condeming the terror they inflict on the Palestinians. In fact, you are a supporter of Israeli terror by doing this.

typo

[ 14 October 2003: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 14 October 2003 12:12 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by No Yards:
When will Meshei start condemming Israel for it's part in this mad cycle of murder and violence??

Will it take longer than 1 hour and nine minutes??

Mishei, if there were no people like you blaming everthing on the Palestinains, then there would be no need for other people to point out that Israel was also at fault!!


I'd be interested in you showing me where in this post I have laid all the blame at the hands of the Palestinians. On the contrary, I have always held that it is basically the extrmists like hamas et al who are the murdereres here and are leading the Palestinian people away from peace.

Secondly do you No Yards accept that the PA's music video is a good thing?


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 14 October 2003 12:25 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
I'd be interested in you showing me where in this post I have laid all the blame at the hands of the Palestinians. On the contrary, I have always held that it is basically the extrmists like hamas et al who are the murdereres here and are leading the Palestinian people away from peace.

Secondly do you No Yards accept that the PA's music video is a good thing?


I see, so if it's only the extremists like Hamas that you are blaming, then why no outrage when Israel punishes ordinary Palestinains?? You have no such problem making destinctions when Hamas goes after innocent Israelis . . . well, actually you do, as you seem to include Israeli military targets as illegitimate targets of Palestinian "extremists" as well . . . but you get the point.

As for the music video, I cannot say how I stand on it, as I have never seen it and only have the words of noted Israeli apologists that it is what you claim!!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 October 2003 01:05 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What kind of society praises the suicide of its young? What has happened to a people who willingly sacrifice young women, universal symbols of life, the promise of future generations?

Such criminal acts and grotesque attitudes are the result of a society that has lost all hope and is driven by despair.


How are martyrs made? When despair trumps hope.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 14 October 2003 02:24 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
I'd be interested in you showing me where in this post I have laid all the blame at the hands of the Palestinians.

Here you are using reverse phsycology. I'd be interested in you showing me clearly where you have condemned the occupation and settlement expansions ????
quote:
On the contrary, I have always held that it is basically the extrmists like hamas et al who are the murdereres here and are leading the Palestinian people away from peace.

Fisrt... there you go again. I'm waiting for the day you call Sharon and the IOC murderers. Seconf, well, they (Hamas et all) surely don't help the situation and neither does the Likud terrorists. they have failed as a governement and a leader of peace for the Israeli people. A classic case of blind leading the blind. Sharon prefers to eradicate the problem rather then push it aside and let NOTHING stand in the way of peace. I wouldn't expect anything less from "A Man Of Peace".

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 14 October 2003 10:31 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
BP asks the following:

"Here you are using reverse phsycology. I'd be interested in you showing me clearly where you have condemned the occupation and settlement expansions ????"

See below..and while looking below do note that Palestinains for the mid East problems. Why because as usual he stretched the truth to the breaking point. Sigh

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lagatta:
Ruth Rosen, of the San Francisco Chronicle, on the despair that produces suicide bombers, and also touching on the whole question of "anti-semitism". http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1013-07.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lagatta, I do not entirely disagree with Rosen. The occupation has been a disaster for Israel and the majority of Israelis understand this.
There are efforts underway to reach an understanding (Beilin/Rabbo comes to mind).

However, Ms. Rosen must also reflect on the seeds of hate planted by the PA (please see Wente's column. I am posting below some excerpts FYI ).

Both Israelis and Palestinians have much work to do...to borrow a line from one of my favourite poets they have "miles to go before they sleep".



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al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 October 2003 05:09 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"We all lay on the ground. Salah's wife threw herself on the boy, to protect him. My brother Fadi fell on the floor and I saw that he was bleeding. I grabbed his hand and started to drag him to the sofa, to hide him behind it. I was screaming, `Fadi! Salah!' I heard Fadi barely speaking, saying `Save me. Save me.' Then one of the soldiers came and attacked me. He threw me with force onto the floor, pulled Fadi's hand out of mine and told me, `Get into the house or I'll kill you.' I shouted to them, `Leave me alone, I want to save my brother. He's wounded, bleeding.'

"Fadi was still breathing. Salah lay motionless. I saw that he had been hit in the head. Three of the soldiers spoke fluent Arabic. One of them asked me, `Where is Fadi's weapon?' I said, `I don't know. He doesn't even have a weapon.' I saw my brother lying there. `Allah akbar aleikum, he'll die,' I said. They made me lie down facing the ground and one of them said, `You bitch, you terrorist, we'll kill you along with them.' They aimed their weapons at my head. Then one of them said to the others, `Drag them [Salah and Fadi] and put one on top of the other.' Those words drove me out of my mind. I said, `You're terrorists, dogs, leave them alone.' I tried to get up, but they knocked me down again. They dragged Salah and Fadi a few meters and then shot them again. They killed them in cold blood.


Haaretz describes how martyrs are made

[ 20 October 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 20 October 2003 10:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I find it instructive to comment on this opinion piece that showed up in the student newspaper today.

quote:
This homicide bombing

Without in any way detracting from the very real horror and fear that such actions cause, it is interesting that Mr. Bradshaw used the term "homicide" bombing, clearly indicating that he's linked to the same group mind that Mishei and a few others are linked to.

quote:
It is time to talk about what it will take to bring peace to the region. What is the only common denominator in every failed peace initiative? Yasser Arafat. This hate monger, anti-Semite, revered, self-professed terrorist must be removed from the process.

This character assassination is straight out of the Israeli apologist's lab manual. Trash Arafat, and make sure that nobody asks embarassing questions about Sharon's attitude problem.

quote:
It is time to face the reality that Palestinian children walk to school while Israeli children are shuttled between their homes and school by armour covered school buses.

Palestinian kids walk to.. school? What school? Is there any functioning infrastructure left in the PA to reliably educate and nourish these kids' minds? I highly doubt it.

Armored school busses at least get Israeli kids to schools that are well-funded, properly equipped, and certainly wouldn't make a student like me tear his hair out for lack of a functioning analytical balance.

quote:
Attacks made on targets by the IDF are calculated and precise attempting to cut off the conduits of terror before its too late.

As opposed to levelling a whole apartment building to get at one terist, right, Bradshaw buddy ole pal?

quote:
It is annihilation of the Israeli state and the systematic destruction of the Jewish people that these groups, the current Palestinian "leadership" included, are attempting to attain.

Siege mentalities are so Reaganite.

The Palestinian-Arab leadership couldn't do bupkiss even if it wanted to. What the hell have they got? Suicide bombers. What the hell have the Israelis got? Nukes and more conventional weapons than you can shake a stick at. The force advantage is so ludicrously in favor of the Israelis that some of the more extremist Israelis don't even bother to hide their enthusiastic fantasies about squashing the Palestinian-Arab population like a bug.

At least Bradshaw boy here didn't make the mistake of lazily claiming that all Arabs are fungible.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 October 2003 10:36 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The old pizza place argument...

quote:
Next time you are in the pub, picture this. It's a busy Friday lunch before a long weekend. Everyone is talking loudly, and the wait staff is running around serving up Highland Burgers. People are studying, people are laughing, a typical rush at the pub before everyone heads off for the weekend.

Someone runs in and detonates a pack of explosives from under their shirt. Pick 19 people that will never again laugh with their friends, read a good book, or hug their loved ones.


...as opposed to the carefree Palestinians who, if they stick their noses out of their windows during one of the innumerable IOF curfews, are simply shot in the head by snipers.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 20 October 2003 10:39 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Attacks made on targets by the IDF are calculated and precise attempting to cut off the conduits of terror before its too late.

Israeli Raids Kill 10 In Gaza

quote:
In the bloodiest day in the Gaza Strip in months, Israeli warplanes and helicopters pounded militant targets Monday, killing 10 Palestinians, including seven in a refugee camp where a car was destroyed, and wounding about 100.


[snip]

The nighttime strike in the Nusseirat camp in central Gaza, in which 75 people were wounded in addition to the seven killed, was the bloodiest since an April missile raid on a Hamas leader in Gaza City killed nine people.

Residents said Israeli helicopters fired three missiles at the main street, destroying a car. An Israeli army statement said the vehicle was carrying members of a Palestinian terrorist squad fleeing after a failed attempt to breach the border fence with Israel a few miles to the northeast.

But Israel's Channel 10 TV said that none of the dead were militants, characterizing the refugee camp strike as a "mistake."


That's a strange definition of precise.

Edit: And before someone comes along to suggest that these are in retaliation for recent attacks, I'll repost the link to this article from Sept. 17th that predicted the call up of the reserves and the stepped up offensive in Gaza.

[ 20 October 2003: Message edited by: Slim ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 22 October 2003 11:53 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am in agreement with beluga2. I am sure the media and education systems in the PA are terrible, I don't think Arafat is much help, and I think Sharon is actively standing in the way of progress. I expect Palestinian children walk to school because they don't have a bus, or because even if they had one, it wouldn't be allowed on the Jewish-only roads.

If I put my coat on and you don't have a coat, does that mean I'm colder than you are?


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 22 October 2003 02:13 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A Smith sighting! A Smith sighting!
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 27 October 2003 11:23 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, someone's counterpoint to Bradshaw's piece above.

quote:
Next time you are in the pub, picture this. It's a busy Friday lunch before a long weekend. People are studying, people are laughing a typical rush at the pub before everyone heads off for the weekend. Then, suddenly, you hear a noise typical of tan Apache helicopters.

As best as I can tell the author deliberately wrote it as a counterpoise to the other piece so I'm not going to go through it paragraph by paragraph.

One thing, though - he probably doesn't have experience with the nigletizing that can go on about the use of the term "Anti-Semite", because he says this:

quote:
In his article, Bradshaw makes many accusations and even more mistakes. He asserts that Arafat is an anti-Semite, forgetting the simple fact that Arabs are Semites themselves.

It's kind of a weak defence, since the nigletizers will go blahblahblah Wilhelm Marr blahblahblah Anti-semite blahblahblah he called himself one and ad nauseam.

However, the reinforcing point that belies the claim of anti-semitism is that Arafat is no Hitler. Has he called for the destruction of the Jewish people since the PLO modified its Charter?


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 28 October 2003 12:09 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, the Semite argument is tired, let's not go through it again. I wish people would stop playing the "Arabs are Semites" card, 'cause no matter how closely Jews and Arabs are related, they sure don't seem to see themselves as such.

quote:
He criticises Arafat's non-existent crest that adorns "his" arm, forgetting the map of greater Israel (which includes six countries) that decorates the walls of the Knesset.

Jaysus. Is this true?

The thing about torturing more civilians than any other government obviously isn't true. (Maybe he means more than any other democratic government? Even then, there'd be a lot of competition.) But perhaps someone can enlighten me on the other allegations.

[ 28 October 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 28 October 2003 12:22 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have absolutely no idea about this crest thing, but I suspect it's of a piece with some of the other urban legends that get told about Arafat, like his alleged predilection for young men.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 October 2003 01:28 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...cause no matter how closely Jews and Arabs are related, they sure don't seem to see themselves as such.

That's a big "seem."

Close cousins, despite it all.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 28 October 2003 01:13 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know.
From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 October 2003 02:15 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Somebody, somewhere in the Middle East threads, said that the IOF had film evidence to show that they actually bombed an empty site in Gaza recently.

Uri Avnery has some questions about that film.


quote:
So here we have a perfect riddle. A factual clip against the eye-witness account of the journalists. What would Sherlok Holmes have said?

Well. Perhaps a Palestinian propagandist of genius invented the whole thing. The civilians committed suicide or shot each other, dozens of others wounded themselves, all in order to besmirch the IDF with a monstrous lie. (By the same logic, the father of little Muhammad al-Dura killed his son, at the beginning of the present intifada, in order to slander our brave and upright soldiers).



From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DavidB-D
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posted 28 October 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for DavidB-D     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
However, the reinforcing point that belies the claim of anti-semitism is that Arafat is no Hitler. Has he called for the destruction of the Jewish people since the PLO modified its Charter?

This must be the Realm of the Absurd.

From: ON | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 October 2003 02:33 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We like to call it "Wonderland" around here.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 28 October 2003 05:40 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Close cousins, despite it all.

Feuding between brothers is often the nastiest sort.

There are certainly a lot of common roots, genetic, cultural., and linguistic. I sometimes find myself musing over the ironic similarity between two words: "Shalom" and "Sala'am."


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 29 October 2003 08:17 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He criticises Arafat's non-existent crest that adorns "his" arm, forgetting the map of greater Israel (which includes six countries) that decorates the walls of the Knesset.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smith I ahve never seen any such thing in the Knesseth.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
EMGEE
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posted 29 October 2003 10:00 AM      Profile for EMGEE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The [palestinian children have no buses to get to their scholls, of which they also have none????

So what is it that Arafat has been doing with all the hundreds of millions of dollars it receives annually from Europe, from fellow Arab states all the while having the UN support and finance so many of their slums???

Tell me again how hard a life Arafat's wife is having on the French Riviera and his kids in European private schools.


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
EMGEE
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4601

posted 29 October 2003 05:27 PM      Profile for EMGEE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well. Perhaps a Palestinian propagandist of genius invented the whole thing. The civilians committed suicide or shot each other, dozens of others wounded themselves, all in order to besmirch the IDF with a monstrous lie.


I think that the funniest thing that I had ever seen on TV was footage of Arabs carrying stretchers of dead and dying "civilians" being filmed by their camera crews. Suddenly an explosion goes off not far from the filming and the stretchers are dropped and the dead and dying "civilians" go running off!!!

So much for believing Arab coverage for me!

And the Jennin massacre? Pullleeeeeze!!!!

IF the Jews do control the mass media of the world they are sure as heck doing one hell of a lousy publicity campaign.


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 29 October 2003 05:54 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by EMGEE:
I think that the funniest thing that I had ever seen on TV was footage of Arabs carrying stretchers of dead and dying "civilians" being filmed by their camera crews. Suddenly an explosion goes off not far from the filming and the stretchers are dropped and the dead and dying "civilians" go running off!!!

Ah. So Emgee is a troll. I was rapidly coming to that conclusion, but I had to give it a chance.

If he can produce any checkable documentation of this supposed scene I will of course apologize. But I doubt it. As someone else said, I 'magine the moderators will be 'round shortly.


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
EMGEE
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4601

posted 29 October 2003 06:34 PM      Profile for EMGEE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry but that was something I saw on BBC. It was not told to me by anyone... I saw it with my own two eyes (even had my glases on).

It was during the same fighting that brought out the Jennin comedy.

What's a troll????


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged

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