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Author Topic: Israel approves expanding illegal settlements
josh
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posted 02 October 2003 02:47 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Israel issued plans Thursday for about 600 more homes in West Bank settlements despite the Mideast "road map" peace plan, which calls for a freeze on new settlement construct."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/02/mideast.settlements/


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 02 October 2003 06:41 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michei, you finally have a place to stay. This is applorable, discusting and the most negative thing from either side for any hope for peace. The Israeli's must be the most dumb fuck humans on earth. EXPANSIONISM must stop. The GREED For land must stop. The humiliation on the Palestinians must STOP The bombings must stop!!

P.S. Mishei, I said Israeli's, not Jews.


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 02 October 2003 06:43 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Israel has says it will continue to build to accommodate what it calls natural growth.
Natural Growth?

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 02 October 2003 06:47 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Natural growth." Translation: As many as Sharon chooses.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 02 October 2003 07:06 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:

P.S. Mishei, I said Israeli's, not Jews.

Good you are not being racist, just xenophobic.

The peace process, roadmap and all is dead. Both terrorists (Hamas et al) and Arafat (and his minions) have made sure of that. They delivered excuses for the Israeli government to them on a silver platter. And now Israel is doing what it wanted to all long- expand.

The cause of this problem is not as much Zionism as it is Palestinian extremists. If the Palestinian authority would have done a better job cracking down on terrorists, then maybe with the USA leaning on them the Zionists could have been brought on board to the peace plan. But that didn't happen, Palestinian attacks continued, and now we have a mess.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2003 01:24 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Natural growth"?

"Drang nach osten"?

"lebensraum"?

"xenophobia...with extreme prejudice"?

"larceny"?

"making the desert bloom"?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 October 2003 02:14 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:

Good you are not being racist, just xenophobic.

The peace process, roadmap and all is dead. Both terrorists (Hamas et al) and Arafat (and his minions) have made sure of that. They delivered excuses for the Israeli government to them on a silver platter. And now Israel is doing what it wanted to all long- expand.

The cause of this problem is not as much Zionism as it is Palestinian extremists. If the Palestinian authority would have done a better job cracking down on terrorists, then maybe with the USA leaning on them the Zionists could have been brought on board to the peace plan. But that didn't happen, Palestinian attacks continued, and now we have a mess.


quote:
The peace process, roadmap and all is dead. Both terrorists (Hamas et al) and Arafat (and his minions) have made sure of that
Very good Draxon, I think you should be a little more thorough. Such as including the IDF and Ariel Sharon. If Israel is such a peace living nation, wouldn't you think thay should take extra measures to secure a peace process? Instead of blaming it on extremists (fighters... terrorists or whatever you weant to call them) who do wrong just like the Isreali Demoractic Government? Sure... the Palestinians are doing horiffic resistance an causing pain in the region, It's given and we can never forget, dismiss or apologize for the horrific crimes comitted by Ariel Sharon on the IDF either!
quote:
Good you are not being racist, just xenophobic.
Never racist and not passive.
quote:
They delivered excuses for the Israeli government to them on a silver platter.
Excuses creates excuses... and violence creates violence blah... blah.. blah.

BTW Silver excuses? So, should we exterminate the Palestinian scum to accomodate natural growth?

quote:
And now Israel is doing what it wanted to all long- expand.
Here your confusing me. It is an admission, or you snapped into it and realized that Isreal doesn't want peace, or I'm totally mistaken and I misinterpreted everything you said?

[ 03 October 2003: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 03 October 2003 10:39 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Very good Draxon, I think you should be a little more thorough. Such as including the IDF and Ariel Sharon. If Israel is such a peace living nation, wouldn't you think thay should take extra measures to secure a peace process? Instead of blaming it on extremists (fighters... terrorists or whatever you weant to call them) who do wrong just like the Isreali Demoractic Government? Sure... the Palestinians are doing horiffic resistance an causing pain in the region, It's given and we can never forget, dismiss or apologize for the horrific crimes comitted by Ariel Sharon on the IDF either!

But Israel was almost prepared to co-operate with the US and Palestinians... They did not derail the peace process. But now that it has been derailed, Israel does not feel an obligation to kick a dead horse.

Re excuses: not excuses for genocide, but excuses for raids and fences. I am not saying that violence is the best way to solve the problem, but the Palestinian violence has sure been used as a justification by Israel for its actions.

Israel wants peace (it is in their own best interests to not live in fear of being attacked), but seems happy to take expansionism in the absence of any realistic hope for peace.

In order to stop the violence, there must be hope for a lasting peace acceptable to both sides.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 03 October 2003 11:15 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Israel was almost prepared to co-operate with the US and Palestinians

Yeah. Almost.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 October 2003 11:43 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But Israel was almost prepared to co-operate with the US and Palestinians...
Sure, but not until they destroy more homes and displace more Palestinians. Remember, this is what the Israeli's did in the early stages of the doomed road-map.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2003 12:14 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"The settlement population has been growing at a rate of about 10,000 annually over the past three years, despite the fighting.

"Sharon's definition of a Palestinian state is a bunch of strips of land that have no contiguity," said Dror Etkes, a spokesman for Peace Now, an Israeli group that monitors settlements.

"Sharon always speaks about a long-term interim solution with the Palestinians," Mr. Etkes said. "But with his policies, there will be nothing left to negotiate in the long term.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/03/international/middleeast/03MIDE.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 03 October 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:
The Israeli's must be the most dumb fuck humans on earth.

Unacceptable. Doesn't matter if you said "Israelis" instead of "Jews". You want to talk about the Israeli government and call them dumb fucks because of their policy decisions, that's one thing, but please don't generalize about all Israelis that way.

And before the linguistic philosophy crusaders come in to drown me in protests, ask yourself whether you would protest if I told someone not to refer to Palestinians as the most dumb fuck humans on earth.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2003 03:12 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

And before the linguistic philosophy crusaders come in to drown me in protests...

How about squirt you with a water pistol?

I think a closer analogy to your "Jew/Israeli" comparison would be if someone said "Arabs are the most....." instead of "Palestinians."

My main quibble, however, is with Blind_Patriot's use of a possessive apostrophe when trying to indicate the plural "Israelis."


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worker_drone
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posted 03 October 2003 03:30 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
Would it be fair to say that maybe Sharon and his cabinet are the most dumb fuck humans on earth? By allowing the settlements to expand, they're pandering to their core constiuency, buying votes from the right wing religous conservatives and the settlers. They're trading away any hope for peace to buy enough votes to ensure their political survival. Disgusting. What's more important to these people? The survival of Israel or the survival of the Likud party?
From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 03 October 2003 03:44 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Unfortunately, I don't think we're dealing with "dumb fucks" here at all. I think Sharon and his homies want to up the ante so that they can go in and bust caps in a whole bunch of Palestinian asses. There'll be a few civillians lost, but WTF, they'll control the whole turf and no one'll be dissin' Likud any more. Sharon may be right: he may be the baddest MF in the ME.
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 03 October 2003 04:32 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:
Sure, but not until they destroy more homes and displace more Palestinians. Remember, this is what the Israeli's did in the early stages of the doomed road-map.

And I suppose the Palestinians were not using any suicide bombers at that pint

Pot: Hey Kettle, how come you are so black?


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 03 October 2003 04:48 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:
Michei, you finally have a place to stay. This is applorable, discusting and the most negative thing from either side for any hope for peace. The Israeli's must be the most dumb fuck humans on earth. EXPANSIONISM must stop. The GREED For land must stop. The humiliation on the Palestinians must STOP The bombings must stop!!

P.S. Mishei, I said Israeli's, not Jews.


Doesnt matter its still a form of prejudice to call an entire people the majority of whom are Jews "dumb fucks". You are pitiful

Edited to add: Oops missed Michelle's justifiable criticism of Blind. Thanks Michelle, as you see I quite agree.

[ 03 October 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2003 04:49 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by worker_drone:

Would it be fair to say that maybe Sharon and his cabinet are the most dumb fuck humans on earth? By allowing the settlements to expand, they're pandering to their core constiuency, buying votes from the right wing religous conservatives and the settlers. They're trading away any hope for peace to buy enough votes to ensure their political survival. Disgusting. What's more important to these people? The survival of Israel or the survival of the Likud party?


You don't take into the account the roles zealotry and hubris play. Sharon and his ilk are zealots. They really believe in the concept of a "greater land of Israel." They are also arrogant, and drunk with power. They think they can get away with anything, and know that the current administration will only give them a wrist slap, at most. But this is now. They are sewing the wind. They will reap the whirlwind.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
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posted 03 October 2003 04:55 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You don't take into the account the roles zealotry and hubris play. Sharon and his ilk are zealots. They really believe in the concept of a "greater land of Israel."

Probably. But that's not so different from the attitude they're up against in the Palestinian leadership. You can't tell me Arafat doesn't believe in the concept of a "greater land of Palestine" that stretches from Jordan to the Mediterrainian.


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 October 2003 06:37 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
Doesnt matter its still a form of prejudice to call an entire people the majority of whom are Jews "dumb fucks". You are pitiful

Edited to add: Oops missed Michelle's justifiable criticism of Blind. Thanks Michelle, as you see I quite agree.

[ 03 October 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


Pitiful is when you support the Israeli Goverments policy Mishei, and yes... they are dumb fucks. I apologize for not being clear. The dumb fucks I refer to are the settlers and the government of Isreal.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 03 October 2003 07:02 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blind_Patriot:
Pitiful is when you support the Israeli Goverments policy Mishei, and yes... they are dumb fucks. I apologize for not being clear. The dumb fucks I refer to are the settlers and the government of Isreal.
Mmmmm of course thank you for being more precise or in the vernacular for covering your ass.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 October 2003 07:05 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You can't tell me Arafat doesn't believe in the concept of a "greater land of Palestine" that stretches from Jordan to the Mediterrainian.

I think he can tell you just that.

The Palestinians are simply believing in the concept of survival at this point.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
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posted 03 October 2003 07:43 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
Arafat is not "the Palestinians" any more than Sharon is "the Israelis".
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DrConway
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posted 03 October 2003 08:56 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I can only hope that perhaps Sharon will make a calculation on the basis of simple pragmatism and realize that there is no way that this unstable situation can be resolved in Israel's favor without the excessive use of force that would surpass the threshold of acceptability for its use.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 05 October 2003 10:51 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
[QB]

But Israel was almost prepared to co-operate with the US and Palestinians... They did not derail the peace process. But now that it has been derailed, Israel does not feel an obligation to kick a dead horse.


Look at the death statistics from the last few months. Palestinians were dying a lot more than Israelis, it is just that the daily manifest of 'accidental, regrettable' Palestinian deaths in the Occupied Territories doesn't make as big a news splash as a suicide bombing...

Oh, and let's not even mention the extrajudicial targetted killings (a euphemism for illegal assasination - i.e. murder) that was a fixture of Israeli policy during the process....

Oh, and nevermind that the Occupation and the manner in which it is prosecuted is very extreme it's just that it has become normalised through various semantic and argumentative conjurings of which your point is example par excellance...

Oh, and that damned wall - the ultimate symbol of the myopic ethnocentrism found in many sectors of Israeli society.

quote:
Re excuses: not excuses for genocide, but excuses for raids and fences. I am not saying that violence is the best way to solve the problem, but the Palestinian violence has sure been used as a justification by Israel for its actions.

The Occupation began in 1967. Suicide bombings came nearly 30 years later. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc?

quote:
Israel wants peace (it is in their own best interests to not live in fear of being attacked), but seems happy to take expansionism in the absence of any realistic hope for peace.

What a fancy piece of argumentation: as though 'expansionism' (you know the occupation and repression of the Palestinians following their ethnic cleansing in 1948) is an alternative option to peace, rather than one of the key reasons that this conflict is ongoing.

[ 06 October 2003: Message edited by: Courage ]


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Stockholm
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posted 05 October 2003 11:11 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So if the only reason for all the terrorism and conflict in the Middle East is the "occupation" why was there no peace before 1967 when there was ipso facto no occupation?

Back then Israel was imploring the Arabs to make peace, but no, no, no, the Arabs were determined to conquer all of Israel and kill everyone there. Their plans backfired they got humiliated in the 1967 War despite the 50-1 population superiority of Arabs over Israelis and so we find ourselves in the current situation.

Just think, if those dumb leaders of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan had simply signed peace treaties with Israel in the 1950s or 60s, all of Gaza, the West Bank (incoluding East Jerusalem) and the Golan Heights would all be under Arab rule right now. Surely that has to rank as the greatest blunder in history since the Native Indians sold Manhattan for one dollar in the 17th century. The Arabs had their chance, thew blew and and the Palestinians have been suffering ever since even though it really the fault of Nasser and Assad etc...


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 06 October 2003 03:39 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
So if the only reason for all the terrorism and conflict in the Middle East is the "occupation" why was there no peace before 1967 when there was ipso facto no occupation?

Back then Israel was imploring the Arabs to make peace, but no, no, no, the Arabs were determined to conquer all of Israel and kill everyone there. Their plans backfired they got humiliated in the 1967 War despite the 50-1 population superiority of Arabs over Israelis and so we find ourselves in the current situation.

Just think, if those dumb leaders of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan had simply signed peace treaties with Israel in the 1950s or 60s, all of Gaza, the West Bank (incoluding East Jerusalem) and the Golan Heights would all be under Arab rule right now. Surely that has to rank as the greatest blunder in history since the Native Indians sold Manhattan for one dollar in the 17th century. The Arabs had their chance, thew blew and and the Palestinians have been suffering ever since even though it really the fault of Nasser and Assad etc...



Israeli MiniTrue 101...


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 06 October 2003 03:46 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Re: Israel "imploring the Arabs to make peace"....

Please read the collected statements, biographies, autobiographies and the rest of the relevent historical record on Israeli military and political leaders of the period in question.

Far from 'imploring' anyone to peace, it was Israeli policy to provoke violence where they thought they had the upper hand (Syria vis a vis the Golan Heights, Egypt over the Sinai) and pursue relatively peaceful relations only with those who found Palestinian national claims to be as problematic as they did, i.e. Hashemite Jordan.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 22 March 2005 09:34 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It may be 2005, rather than 2003, but the song remains the same:
quote:

Israel on Monday publicly confirmed plans to build 3,500 new housing units in the largest Jewish settlement in the West Bank, Maale Adumim. Palestinians angrily responded that such an action would violate the Middle East peace plan and would be a major obstacle to resolving bitter disputes over nearby Jerusalem.

. . . .

The Maale Adumim settlement, with nearly 30,000 residents, a spacious shopping mall that includes Blockbuster Video and Ace Hardware, and streets lined with palm trees and flower beds in full bloom, already resembles a well-ordered suburb in the hills a few miles east of Jerusalem.

Residents welcomed the planned expansion as a natural development for the fast-growing settlement. "This is very good news," said Roni Hai, 52, a taxi driver and a 20-year resident. "We just keep getting bigger and bigger."

Cranes, bulldozers and trucks were all in motion on Monday, working on dozens of residential buildings that had been approved before this latest move. A billboard promoting one new neighborhood, "Views of Sevilla," promises apartments with "breathtaking views." To the west is the skyline of Jerusalem, and to the east are stark desert hills dotted with Palestinian villages.

But Palestinians criticized the expansion plan disclosed Monday as a flagrant attempt to expand the Jewish presence in and around the traditionally Arab eastern parts of Jerusalem and to seal them off even further from Palestinian areas in the West Bank.

. . . .

In practical terms, the expansion of Maale Adumim creates two major problems, say Palestinians and other critics of the Israeli plan. First, Palestinians living in East Jerusalem and nearby areas will be effectively boxed in, with no room to grow.

"This project may be one of the biggest obstacles to reaching a two-state solution," said Yariv Oppenheimer of Peace Now, an Israeli group that monitors settlements. "This will cut off Jerusalem to the east with Jewish settlements."

Also, an expanded Maale Adumim would serve as a barrier between the northern and southern parts of the West Bank. Palestinians traveling between the two parts would face a lengthy detour, though Israeli officials have hinted that they may build a bypass road.

Critics also called the expansion a violation of Israel's pledge under the Middle East peace plan known as the road map, which calls for a freeze of all settlement activity.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/international/middleeast/22mideast.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 23 March 2005 01:52 AM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post
Umm, Stockholm, Nasser and Assad were never the representatives of the Palestinian people or their interests. Jeez.
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 18 April 2005 10:04 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Israel announced plans on Monday to build 50 homes in a Jewish settlement in the West Bank, a week after President Bush called on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon not to expand settlements.

The Israel Lands Administration, a government agency, published a notice inviting bids for the purchase of 50 plots for the construction of single-family homes in the settlement of Elkana, some three miles inside the West Bank.

The agency's Web site shows it marketed 1,783 new housing units in the West Bank in 2004 and 1,225 in 2003.


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-mideast-settlement.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 18 April 2005 11:42 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There you go! Another step towards peace by the Democratic State of Israel in quasi support from the Democratic State of America. The Palestinians deserve this right. It is thier own fault.

It is clear that the occupying Israeli's do not want peace.


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged

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