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Author Topic: Can Arabs better detect the scent of other Arabs?
josh
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posted 29 August 2003 12:08 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An Israeli cabinet minister thinks so. The scent of racism:

http://tinyurl.com/coq4


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
kuba walda
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posted 29 August 2003 12:23 PM      Profile for kuba walda        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In the United States, where there are similar phenomena, the civil rights organizations went mute after September 11, 2001. Now, every person whose name has a Muslim ring to it is a citizen under suspicion. And no one speaks out against this. Quite a few Muslim citizens of the United States have taken American names. In this sphere let us not take an example from the U.S. and let us not abandon ourselves to racism in the name of security.

Good question where are the civil rights organizatons? I can't imagine having to give up my identity (name) to feel secure.


From: the garden | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 August 2003 01:31 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Didn't somebody write in a book somewhere that he thought Jews smelled different? And didn't that somebody go on to political power?

Seems to me that racism can have deleterious effects on peaceful domestic and international relations.

It also strikes me as more than a bit bizarre that a (presumably properly educated) cabinet minister of Israel should make such an ignorant comment.

The article makes it plain, however, that there has been a lack of effective integration in Israeli society for a couple of decades now, at least.

Perhaps if the Israelis had embarked on a project of treating the Palestinian-Arabs as equals instead of as interlopers in the land of "Judea and Samaria" (remember what I said about conservatives and new ideas? This is an old idea being raked over and dressed up in new clothing - it's 2003, not 3, for Petes' sake!), there would have been no intifada, no bupkiss.

But that would require Israelis to have truly made an effort to understand the Arabs who lived within Israel - to live as they, think as they, be as they.

Fat chance!


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 30 August 2003 10:25 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Didn't somebody write in a book somewhere that he thought Jews smelled different? And didn't that somebody go on to political power?

Seems to me that racism can have deleterious effects on peaceful domestic and international relations.

It also strikes me as more than a bit bizarre that a (presumably properly educated) cabinet minister of Israel should make such an ignorant comment.

The article makes it plain, however, that there has been a lack of effective integration in Israeli society for a couple of decades now, at least.

Perhaps if the Israelis had embarked on a project of treating the Palestinian-Arabs as equals instead of as interlopers in the land of "Judea and Samaria" (remember what I said about conservatives and new ideas? This is an old idea being raked over and dressed up in new clothing - it's 2003, not 3, for Petes' sake!), there would have been no intifada, no bupkiss.

But that would require Israelis to have truly made an effort to understand the Arabs who lived within Israel - to live as they, think as they, be as they.

Fat chance!


But, Doc, the Queen is an Anglican!


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 30 August 2003 11:18 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
An Israeli cabinet minister thinks so. The scent of racism:

http://tinyurl.com/coq4


Oh, but certainly he was 'elected' in 'free and democratic elections'....

Bravo to Gideon Levy.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 31 August 2003 02:09 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Courage:
But, Doc, the Queen is an Anglican!

I'm... not sure what you're driving at.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 August 2003 08:48 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think Courage was referring to an argument made by Mishei in another thread. Josh claimed that the problem with Israel (and Pakistan and Iran) is that their politics are founded on religion, and Mishei's response was that the Queen of England is Anglican and that the head of state of England has to be Anglican so that they can also be the head of the church. Because for some reason that was supposed to excuse the apartheid in Israel.

In other words, Courage was being sarcastic.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 31 August 2003 10:38 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Funny smells. Funny accents. Funny food. Funny clothes. A classic list of things to worry about in others -- if you're a paranoid bigot.

This would be funny if so many people didn't still think this way.

Michelle, I see that last name on your passport, and I have this small test I want to run you through before I let you get on this plane. Repeat after me: Fine; I feel fine. Out and about the house. Lieutenant-governor. New York, New York. Park the car in Harvard Yard.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 August 2003 10:50 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In case it wasn't clear, it wasn't the racism displayed by that Israeli cabinet minister I found funny. It was Courage's comment that I was giggling over.

As for the last name on my passport - well, it would be my maiden name now, which is French. But a few years ago, when I was married and using my husband's last name, it just might have triggered a second look, just as my son's name would likely trigger second looks now. I am the last person to support this kind of racial profiling or to think that it is funny.

Although I don't know if I could paak the caa in Haavaad Yaad well enough to pass for a New Englander.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 31 August 2003 10:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry, Michelle -- my post wasn't responding to anything but the original link -- my use of "funny" was not a comment on any of yours.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 August 2003 11:50 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, I see. You were just using my name as an example. Of course, considering the anti-French atmosphere that was happening for a while in the US, maybe I should be worried with my last name.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 31 August 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle Freedom. Nice ring to it.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 31 August 2003 01:26 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle and skdadl, I have been out with both of you and seen you order mid-east flat breads with hummus. Hmmmm.........
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 31 August 2003 02:32 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But aw, c'mon, oldgoat -- we smell very Upper Canadian, no?

[ 31 August 2003: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SHH
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posted 01 September 2003 04:10 PM      Profile for SHH     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Years ago I was in Rome and happened upon the time-honored, and very large Sunday flea-market near the city center. My Italian co-worker was doing an excellent job of host as he doused me in the ‘Italian experience’. Milling around in the open market I was suddenly surrounded by a group of small kids, a mix of about 6 pre-schoolers and pre-teens. They wanted to sell me a newspaper - draped over the 5-yr-old’s arm. She was a cutie! They were all kinda cute actually, but even I could see that their ‘paper’ was yesterday’s edition. Before I could protest my handler smacked the little girl and yelled at her. I don’t know what he said, but I’m sure it was convincing as they all ran like the wind; disappearing in the crowd.

He explained to me later that I was being set-up for a wallet pick by ‘gypsies’. A diversionary sales pitch, some very cute little young’ins...and Bingo! Why me?

Because, he said, ‘They can smell you. You use different soaps, and different toothpaste. Your clothes are washed differently. Your diet is different.’


From: Ex-Silicon Valley to State Saguaro | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 01 September 2003 04:55 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Arabs have a nose for Arabs and Gypsies are all thieves waiting to prey only upon differently smelling Americans who, I presume, brought enough of their own soaps, toothpastes, foods, etc ... to Italy for whatever the duration
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 September 2003 04:59 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

SHH, honestly.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 01 September 2003 05:05 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I doubt that is the reason. It is more the way of walking and looking about in a foreign city. Or perhaps differences in dress - and I don't mean an ignorant tourist walking about in a baseball cap and shorts and expecting to be unobtrusive. No, Italians (and French, those are the two countries where I've lived longest abroad) aren't necessarily more chic or stylish. But when they are hosers it will be in slightly different ways, as per French wearing dark socks and shoes when they do wear shorts.

There were times, especially when I was new in Italy, that it happened to me. I am NOT tall and blonde, nor did I walk around urban areas in shorts. Don't think it has much to do with smell. I always use things that are as "unsmelly" as possible.

Jan Wong experienced the same thing in China, an Egyptian-Canadian friend of mine the same thing in Egypt.

Back to Israel/Palestine an Israeli friend talked about a book she had read about an Israeli passing as a Palestinian to see how they were treated. The Israeli was not one of the red-headed or very fair Ashkenazi Jews one sometimes encounters - many Israelis and Palestinians are exactly the same hue and somatic type. But there were a host of little visual clues to adopt.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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