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Author Topic: Egyptian jurists to Sue "The Jews" for gold stolen during Exodus
LocoMoto
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posted 22 August 2003 09:50 AM      Profile for LocoMoto        Edit/Delete Post
Take a very deep breath before reading this astonishing interview.

quote:
Taking posession of the gold was understandable. This is clear theft of a host country's resources and treasure, something that fits the morals and character of the Jews. Yet what was not clear to the Egyptian women were the reasons for stealing the cooking utensils, when other things may have been of greater value. However, one of the Egyptian priets said that this had been the Jews' twisted way throughout history; they seek to cause a minor problem connected with the needs of everyday life so as to occupy people with these matters and prevent them from pursuing them to get back the stolen gold...


From: North Carolina | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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posted 22 August 2003 10:15 AM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Since the Jews make various demands of the Arabs and the world, and claim rights that they base on historical and religious sources, a group of Egyptians in Switzerland has opened the case of the so-called 'great exodus of the Jews from Pharaonic Egypt.' At that time, they stole from the Pharaonic Egyptians gold, jewelry, cooking utensils, silver ornaments, clothing, and more, leaving Egypt in the middle of the night with all this wealth, which today is priceless."

Agreed that this whole idea of claiming rights to money based on religious history is nonsense, whether its coming from Israel, Egypt or anywhere else. Immediate retribution for crimes is one thing (as in the cases of the aboriginal peoples of North America, all the victims of the Nazi regime, the Palestinian people of today, and certainly others) but these way-back-when claims and demands we're hearing about today (Israel and Egypt so far) delve into the realms of the ridiculous.

In my opinion, it simply isn't possible to right all the wrongs that have taken place so far in history that we know of, as we as a global community continue to prove we are even incapable of doing that even in today's circumstances.


From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 22 August 2003 10:15 AM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Dean of Law's views of Jews are vile and hateful.
From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 22 August 2003 10:16 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For the record what was the purpose of posting this piece?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
LocoMoto
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posted 22 August 2003 10:58 AM      Profile for LocoMoto        Edit/Delete Post
Given the tight control that most middle eastern governments exercise over the media, the rabid anti-semitic, anti-western propaganda and incitement documented by MEMRI could not be aired/published without the tacit approval of the governments. Governments which talk about peace and negotiation abroad while inflaming hatred at home. Depressing.

Do any of you know much about MEMRI and its accuracy and reliability? It's the darling of the right wing media in the US which makes me suspicious.


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Mishei
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posted 22 August 2003 11:04 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While MEMRI may have a right wing bent I would be shocked if this were not accurate.

That said, I do hope it wasn't written or posted merely to inflame passions.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
LocoMoto
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posted 22 August 2003 11:08 AM      Profile for LocoMoto        Edit/Delete Post
Thanks Mishei, you're right. I was pretty inflamed when I read and posted that. Trying to keep one's emotions in check when thinking about these issues can be difficult but we must try.

[ 22 August 2003: Message edited by: LocoMoto ]


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worker_drone
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posted 22 August 2003 11:39 AM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
This article is just your typical middle eastern yellow journalism LocoMoto. The Egyptian equivalent of a Mark Steyn column in the National Post. Nothing to get too excited about. Pandering to the race card is always a good way to sell a few papers.
From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 29 August 2003 01:18 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well as expected, I'm not overly moved by this. I think it's really stupid to make such a claim on religious basis or any basis for that matter, just like I think it was stupid when Zionist used God as there real estate broker for Palestine.
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 29 August 2003 02:49 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From this week's Jewish Forward;

Forward


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 29 August 2003 02:52 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would think the statute of limitations has run out by now.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 August 2003 03:08 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"If we assume that the weight of what was stolen was one ton," Hilmy said, its worth "doubled every 20 years, even if annual interest is only 5%... hence after 1,000 years it would be worth 1,125,898,240 million tons... This is for one stolen ton. The stolen gold is estimated at 300 tons, and it was not stolen for 1,000 years, but for 5,758 years, by the Jewish reckoning. Therefore, the debt is very large."

Gold doesn't bear interest, and certainly didn't, not back then. Of course, accounting for the fall in the value of money and historical exchange rates might be reasonable, but why not just convert it at the Bretton Woods price of $42 US an ounce and let it go at that?

(Kidding, of course. The Bible is not my idea of historical accuracy, so I suspect that any account of swiping gold was, in real life, probably limited to grabbing a few things out of the Pharaoh's stash and hightailing it out of there)

quote:
Not that Dershowitz believes that Hilmy's case will ever be heard in court: "There's no court that would be open to a lawsuit like that," he said. "Maybe an Islamic court with an elbow, a foot and an ass on the scale."

Dershowitz again reveals himself to be a grade-A prick. Where's a ClueBat(TM) when you need one?

[ 29 August 2003: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 29 August 2003 03:12 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
they stole from the Pharaonic Egyptians gold, jewelry, cooking utensils, silver ornaments, clothing, and more.

It certainly was a low blow to steal cooking utensils form the Pharaoh. That other stuff was probably just payment for the slave labour they were forced to undergo, but the cooking utensil issue must not die.

At present rates of interest, 591 pots and pans would now have multiplied to be 69 billion, 388 million utensils! The perfidy!


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 29 August 2003 03:22 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Obviously that's what caused the end of the Middle Kingdom, the slaves ran off with all the cookware.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 August 2003 10:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
For the record what was the purpose of posting this piece?

For what record?

I assume the reason why the piece was posted was for the reason people post any piece in the Middle East forum. Because they read it, found it interesting, and shared it for discussion.

quote:
That said, I do hope it wasn't written or posted merely to inflame passions.

Um, what? Yeah, because that would be so unusual in the Middle East forum. Last I heard, it isn't against the rules to have passionate debates on Israel. I think it would be a pity to be able to read about the stuff going on in that region without becoming passionate.

As for this particular piece, I think it was probably posted as an example of the ongoing rhetoric between factions in the region. It's not like people were agreeing with the sentiments expressed.

[ 31 August 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 31 August 2003 10:54 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm glad Jeff has raised the issue of unpaid slave labour. That makes the alleged "theft" in this silly article a moot point.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 31 August 2003 04:20 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow. As idiotic lawsuits go, this is even stupider than the Fox News/Al Franken debacle. Suing over thefts that took place millennia ago? Huh??

I think I'll sue the descendents of Og the Caveman for stealing that wooden club from my ancestors.

This would be ROTFL hilarious -- if it weren't laced with gruesome and vile anti-Semitism. Yuk.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 31 August 2003 06:00 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess my nice old neighbour Yudel will have to give up that huge solid gold 14th dynasty statue of Isis that he puts out on his porch every Halloween. Pity, the kids loved it.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 31 August 2003 06:38 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How on earth did Yudel's late grandfather ever manage to schlepp along the Isis statue while fleeing that pogrom in Czarist Russia?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 31 August 2003 07:37 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He dressed it up as Bubba Sadie.

Edited to add that the resemlence was remarkable

[ 31 August 2003: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


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skdadl
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posted 31 August 2003 07:41 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And where did he stash Bubba Sadie?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 31 August 2003 08:14 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He gave her a pair of trousers and a fiddle, and stuck her on the roof.
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Michelle
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posted 31 August 2003 10:38 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh God, y'all are killing me here.
ROTFL.

From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 September 2003 11:55 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But if The Jews apparent "right" to Israel was a valid claim after 2000 years, then what makes this any more ridiculous?
From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 03 September 2003 12:29 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It would be as ridiculous as a claim for reparations against Egypt for hundreds of years of slavery.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 September 2003 01:02 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by paxamillion:
It would be as ridiculous as a claim for reparations against Egypt for hundreds of years of slavery.

Originally posted by Blind_Patriot
But if The Jews apparent "right" to Israel was a valid claim after 2000 years, then what makes this any more ridiculous?


Great, at least you get the point.

[ 04 September 2003: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 03 September 2003 01:39 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You've added a line to my quote. I didn't say all that.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 03 September 2003 03:19 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by paxamillion:
You've added a line to my quote. I didn't say all that.
No you didn't say that, I'm just reiterating what I had intitially said before your supporting comment.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 03 September 2003 03:31 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, kindly fix the attribution in your post, please.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 04 September 2003 12:51 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by paxamillion:
So, kindly fix the attribution in your post, please.
Done! I still believe all 3 claims mentioned are ridiculous.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 04 September 2003 02:00 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What we need is a statute of limitations on historical grievances.
From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 04 September 2003 03:39 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by BleedingHeart:
What we need is a statute of limitations on historical grievances.
A little too late now don't you think. Who would up hold these limitations, the U.S. or the U.N.?

[ 04 September 2003: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 04 September 2003 03:44 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why don't we declare a total historic amnesty, say we are what and where we are now and lets get on with life.

And of course promise to be nice in the future.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 04 September 2003 05:17 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by BleedingHeart:
Why don't we declare a total historic amnesty, say we are what and where we are now and lets get on with life.

And of course promise to be nice in the future.


Wait a second... that would mean that the U.S. would stay in Iraq and the Israeli's could continue to occupy and torture Palestinians while reinforcing the settlements.

Not Likely


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 04 September 2003 05:25 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Wait a second... that would mean that the U.S. would stay in Iraq and the Israeli's could continue to occupy and torture Palestinians while reinforcing the settlements.

No the US could help rebuild the country and establish a democracy and then leave and help with reparations for the next 50 years or so.

Israel and the Palestinians could each grant each other amnesty and live in peace as they did (mostly) in Biblical times.

Of course I also believe in the Easter bunny.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
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posted 06 September 2003 01:16 AM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by BleedingHeart:

No the US could help rebuild the country and establish a democracy and then leave and help with reparations for the next 50 years or so.

Israel and the Palestinians could each grant each other amnesty and live in peace as they did (mostly) in Biblical times.

Of course I also believe in the Easter bunny.


You must believe in the Easter Bunny, if you believe that U.S. wants democracy for Iraq. I always chuckle when people say rebuild, when it was the U.S. who destroyed it in the first place.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged

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