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Author Topic: Cease fire? What cease fire?
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 22 August 2003 02:39 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Palestinian militants declare end to cease-fire

Geez thats funny, Hamas et al never stopped using suicide bombers, but now that Israel retaliated, the cease fire ended.

I wonder exactly which cease fire they were talking about, cause I don't really remember there being one in Israel, since a cease fire requires both sides to stop attacking.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 22 August 2003 10:50 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To be fair, the IDF never stopped trying to arrest (and thus killing) suspected militants during the so-called cease fire. To this observer, neither side took the cease fire seriously...it was just a baby soother for a gullible president across the ocean.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
celtica
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4069

posted 22 August 2003 02:12 PM      Profile for celtica        Edit/Delete Post
I was wondering that too, when has Hamas and other terrorist groups ever stopped killing ?

Surely arresting those who bomb and kill you is not breaking a cease fire.

quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:
To be fair, the IDF never stopped trying to arrest (and thus killing) suspected militants during the so-called cease fire. To this observer, neither side took the cease fire seriously...it was just a baby soother for a gullible president across the ocean.

From: Colbourne | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 22 August 2003 02:15 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:
To be fair, the IDF never stopped trying to arrest (and thus killing) suspected militants during the so-called cease fire. To this observer, neither side took the cease fire seriously...it was just a baby soother for a gullible president across the ocean.

Give me a bit of a break here. Surely there is a difference between arresting terrorists and murdering babies in buses? Or am I wrong ? Oh yes I forgot moral equivalancy!!


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4169

posted 22 August 2003 05:01 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh yeah, the Palestinians should just sit there and let Israel kill them while the west ignores the truth.

How long should the Palestinians wait until they response to Israeli murders?? 100, 200, 1000 murders??

Oh, but I forgot, only Israel lives count for anything to some people!!


quote:
FAIR-L
Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
Media analysis, critiques and activism

MEDIA ADVISORY:
Journalists Find "Calm" When Only Palestinians Die

August 22, 2003

The deadly bus bombing in Jerusalem on August 19 was foreshadowed by a
pair of suicide attacks a week earlier which killed two Israeli civilians.
While U.S. media tended to portray these attacks as a return to violence
after a relatively peaceful period, there were numerous killings in the
weeks leading up to the suicide bombings that underscore the lack of
evenhanded attention given to loss of life in the Israeli/Palestinian
conflict.

When the two Palestinian suicide bombers each killed an Israeli civilian
along with themselves on August 12, U.S. news outlets immediately depicted
the attacks as an apparent resurgence in Mideast violence. "Summer truce
shattered in Israel," announced CBS (8/12/03), while NBC (8/12/03)
reported that "the attacks broke more than a month of relative silence."
The Los Angeles Times (8/13/03) wrote that the bombings "broke a six-week
stretch during which the people of this war-weary land had enjoyed
relative quiet."

During this six-week period of "relative quiet," however, some 17
Palestinians were killed and at least 59 injured by Israeli occupation
soldiers and settlers, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society.
The dead included Mahmoud Kabaha, a four-year-old boy, who was sitting in
the back seat of a jeep with his family at a checkpoint when an Israeli
soldier shot him dead-- in a spray of bullets that the army simply called
an "accidental burst of gunfire" (Associated Press, 7/25/03). Virtually
none of the major U.S. news reports on the August 12 bombings alluded to
the Palestinian death toll in this period, leaving out a key piece of the
story: For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, the violence had never
ceased; while the Israeli attacks had decreased, there had never been
anything like an Israeli cease-fire.

An Associated Press report on August 19 (filed prior to that day's
bombing) did acknowledge that since June 29, "more than 20 people have
been killed on the Israeli and Palestinian sides." What it didn't note was
that of those "more than 20," at least 21 were Palestinian, according to
the Red Crescent.

After a month and a half in which Palestinians were being killed several
times a week and receiving relatively little mention, the Washington Post
and New York Times both put the bombings on their August 13 front pages,
each declaring the violence a break from weeks of "relative calm," and
each including a front-page photo of the victims' relatives in mourning.
USA Today also put grieving relatives on the front page, along with the
headline, "Two Suicide Attacks End a Six-Week Lull in Conflict." One can
empathize with the losses of those survivors while recognizing that the
families of the Palestinians who died during the "lull" were virtually
invisible.

On CNN, the August 12 bombings were a major story, with eight separate
segments mentioning the attacks in a three-hour period. Anchor Wolf
Blitzer declared a "grim return to the battle days in Israel and the
Palestinian territories." His colleague Aaron Brown echoed that theme,
noting that "after a period of relative calm there has been a major surge
in violence in Israel and the Palestinian territories." Correspondent
Jerrold Kessel reported that the bombings "cast doubt on the viability of
this peace process known as the road map for peace."

These bombings had killed four people, including the bombers. Just four
days earlier, on August 8, two Palestinians and one Israeli were killed in
an Israeli raid on a suspected militant, while two more Palestinians were
killed at an ensuing rally-- one shot, and the other killed by Israeli
tear gas (Chicago Tribune, 8/9/03). But those five deaths-- mainly
Palestinian-- were not deemed a "major surge in violence" or a "grim
return to the battle days" on CNN. Instead, anchor Carol Costello
(8/8/03) suggested that the Israeli raid "may be another smudge, a bump if
you will, on that road map to peace."

The media's tendency to downplay-- or completely ignore-- Palestinian
suffering and death is nothing new. In late 2001 and the beginning of
2002, for example, a loose cease-fire declared by Yasir Arafat led to a
period of very few Israeli deaths, but sustained Palestinian deaths-- and
the American media repeatedly referred to it as a time of "relative calm"
(FAIR Action Alert, 1/10/02, 2/5/02).

In order to convey the Mideast crisis in all its complexity, journalists
need to take seriously the violence suffered by all communities.
References to "relative calm" while Palestinians are being routinely
killed only serve to trivialize human life and obscure the cycle of
violence that afflicts the region.



From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 23 August 2003 01:13 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Oh yeah, the Palestinians should just sit there and let Israel kill them while the west ignores the truth.

So... Israel should not be arresting or hurting anyone, they should just let bus bombings continue without lifting a finger. Oh yeah of course! Israel is the bad guy, so you are completely right.

quote:
How long should the Palestinians wait until they response to Israeli murders?? 100, 200, 1000 murders??

How long should the Israelis wait until they respond to Palestinian murders?? Its an endless cycle that needs to be stopped. Not by accepting busloads of civilian casualties, but by cracking down on Hamas et. al and taking out their leadership.


quote:
Oh, but I forgot, only Israel lives count for anything to some people!!

It also seems to me that for the IDF, high officials of terrorist organizations are the main target. For the Palestinian extremists, busloads of school children are better targets.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 23 August 2003 09:30 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I used the term "arrest" above when I should've used the term "targetted killing". There were at least two assassinations by the IDF during the cease fire. You can take your moral equivalency statement and stick it where the sun don't shine, Mishei. I've already expressed my disgust at the latest suicide bombing. It makes me sick inside. I have yet to see any Sharon supporters here express their outrage at the extrajudicial killings undertaken by the IDF during the ceasefire, even those that cause collateral damage and kill innocent Palestinians.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2003 01:53 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
During this six-week period of "relative quiet," however, some 17 Palestinians were killed and at least 59 injured by Israeli occupation soldiers and settlers, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society. The dead included Mahmoud Kabaha, a four-year-old boy, who was sitting in the back seat of a jeep with his family at a checkpoint when an Israeli soldier shot him dead-- in a spray of bullets that the army simply called an "accidental burst of gunfire" (Associated Press, 7/25/03).

Whoops, sorry about the dead kid. Darn hair trigger guns. Just an accident. Nothing to get upset about, and certainly nothing for you foreign press to report. Save your newsprint for when the important people - Israelis - are killed.

I'm sure it's just an isolated incident though. Another one.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2003 02:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
How long should the Israelis wait until they respond to Palestinian murders?? Its an endless cycle that needs to be stopped. Not by accepting busloads of civilian casualties, but by cracking down on Hamas et. al and taking out their leadership.

See, this is the kind of one-sided attitude that drives me nuts. First there is the admonishment that Palestinians aren't the only victims and that the violence is an endless cycle that has to stop.

And then, after this appeal to see it from both sides, what solution do we get? Crack down on Hamas. No mention of cracking down on the murderous bastards within the IDF that shoot little children at checkpoints. No mention of cracking down on the extremists in Likud who clearly get off on the violence as much as the extremists on the Palestinian side, and who excuse the murder of Palestinian civilians and children as isolated incidents and "accidents".

Crack down on the extremists on BOTH sides. I'm still furious that some people think it's wonderful that Yassir Arafat has been taken out of the picture politically because he's a terrorist, but that butcher Ariel Sharon is just a fine and dandy person to negotiate.

I have felt kind of deadened inside about this whole topic over the last couple of months, but every once in a while, I read things that make my blood boil. And the murder of that 4 year-old Palestinian boy was it today.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3838

posted 23 August 2003 02:28 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
It also seems to me that for the IDF, high officials of terrorist organizations are the main target. For the Palestinian extremists, busloads of school children are better targets.

So if Palestinian groups were to switch their tactics to the "targeted killing" of Israeli political & military officials, would that be okay by you, Gir? If Hamas were to limit its violent activity to bumping off a cabinet minister here, a general or colonel there, with a minimum of civilian deaths, would they cease to be labelled "terrorists" in the eyes of the West?

Somehow I fucking doubt it.

Remember the assassination of the Israeli tourism minister a couple years ago? That was a "targeted killing", carefully aimed at a high-ranking official of an occupying power, highly precise, bullet through the brain, no "collateral damage" whatsoever. Yet, as I recall, that attack was still passionately denounced as "terrorism" by everyone from Bush on down. And rightly so.

Can you imagine the (justified) furor that would have erupted if one of those assassins' bullets had missed the tourism minister, gone astray and killed a passing Israeli schoolchild?

And yet, the dead civilians which inevitably result when Israeli helicopters fire missiles into one of the most densely-packed neighbourhoods on earth are casually waved away and dismissed as acceptable "collateral damage".

The hypocrisy is breathtaking, and sickening.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged

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