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Author Topic: Racist Rabbi indicted
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 02 June 2003 04:25 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For those like (oh never mind you know who you are) who believe that Israel does not apply the law when there is hatred against Palestinians and Arabs.

A-G indicts Rabbi Ginzburg


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
tyoung
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3885

posted 02 June 2003 04:32 PM      Profile for tyoung        Edit/Delete Post

From: Vancouver Island | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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Babbler # 1885

posted 02 June 2003 04:43 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The book contains calls for the Arabs to be
expelled from Israel and for the land to be
"cleansed" of foreigners. Ginzburg , one of the
heads of the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva (which was
located in Nablus before it was evacuated due to
the Intifada and subsequently destroyed by the
Palestinians), also calls on readers not to
employ or trade with Arabs.

Vile stuff. Sounds like a good start to me. Personally, when I spoke of Israel's failure to punish nasty people, I was referring more to IDF soldiers and officers who commit and/or order atrocities. But hey, any action is better than inaction.

[ 02 June 2003: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 02 June 2003 04:53 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, hell. Now I have an ethical and intellectual dilemma.

But I'll say it anyway.

I believe it is wrong to prosecute this man, on the basis reported, anyway. If I were a lawyer, I don't know whether I would defend him -- but I would hope that someone would.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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Babbler # 2785

posted 02 June 2003 06:11 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Tyoung please explain the pic. It can have a very violent and threatening meaning so I would like to understand what you meant by it.

Thanks.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
tyoung
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Babbler # 3885

posted 02 June 2003 06:19 PM      Profile for tyoung        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
(oh never mind you know who you are)

Please do not read too much into these things, Mishei. Your post obviously shows that you have "an axe to grind" with those "who know who they are", that's all. Stop looking for sinister meanings where they don't exist, and enjoy a little good-natured ribbing.

Edited to add: I will remove the post if it is truly disturbing to you. I understand we don't all have the same sense of humour....

[ 02 June 2003: Message edited by: tyoung ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 June 2003 06:23 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Tyoung, thanks for the clarification...now I can laugh
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 02 June 2003 07:12 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're lucking Tyoung. Mishei was probably getting ready to report you to the hate speech police.

As for the subject matter of the thread, I find it ironic that this individual is being indicted for much the same position advocated by those members of the government who are from the National Union and NRP parties.

[ 02 June 2003: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 June 2003 08:23 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
You're lucking Tyoung. Mishei was probably getting ready to report you to the hate speech police.

As for the subject matter of the thread, I find it ironic that this individual is being indicted for much the same position advocated by those members of the government who are from the National Union and NRP parties.

[ 02 June 2003: Message edited by: josh ]


Josh is being a putz just part of your nature?

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 02 June 2003 08:29 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Being a schmuck, I guess you would know.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 June 2003 08:35 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
LOL touche...nonetheless it would help if you saw the glass as half full at least sometimes...otherwise your total negativity on everything renders your opinions pretty suspect.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 02 June 2003 08:37 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But Mishei, josh is an hono(u)rary Canadian. As such, he has to shed that good ol' American optimism.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 02 June 2003 08:40 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well if it's negative to point out a blatant irony (and hypocrisy), then I plead guilty.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 02 June 2003 09:54 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
Well if it's negative to point out a blatant irony (and hypocrisy), then I plead guilty.

Never mind, you have answered my question

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
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posted 02 June 2003 10:10 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:

I believe it is wrong to prosecute this man, on the basis reported, anyway.

Why?


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 02 June 2003 10:14 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey hey, we were doing so well!
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 02 June 2003 10:56 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have to say that I agree with skdadl, to a degree. Freedom of speech is a key component of democracy, whether we like the speech or not. That said, I understand this guy openly advocates and incites violence against Arabs, which to me crosses the line from simple speech to criminal conspiracy. When the gullible and the misguided act on his suggestions, he is using them, even directing them, as a weapon of violence. IANAL, but if the state can connect violent members of his congregation to him directly, they can level conspiracy charges and hope they stick (with evidence, of course). Freedom to speak cannot be confused with freedom to direct violence.

Edited to add: Found any IDF personnel under indictment or with more than a simple wrist slap yet, Mishei? Didn't think so.

[ 02 June 2003: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Maggot
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posted 03 June 2003 01:32 PM      Profile for Maggot   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
It's a connundrum. The right to free speech, as with most rights, is not without limits. The comments are vile, racist tripe. But should this "rabbi" be prosecuted? I don't think so.

In a relatively mature democracy, we shouldn't be so afraid of the insane. Besides, one of the spinoff effects of trying to push the idiots underground is that it instantly confers upon them a status they would never have acheieved on their own. Their opinions, which would be considered laughable by 99.9% of us, all of a sudden are branded 'dangerous.' That gives them a power well beyond their original reach.


From: BC | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 03 June 2003 03:06 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm in favor of teaching more critical thinking, rather than trying to restrict speech. Show people why a given work is "vile, racist tripe" (thanks Maggot! great phrase), and the dangers of said tripe.

When you start jailing people for their views, however disgusting, you just tend to attract the little yelping dogs of conspiracy afficionados to the wolf-pack of racism. Result: the addition of extreme annoyance to grevious bodily injury... you know, I think this metaphor just wasn't meant to be.

Hmph. "Educate, don't censor" doesn't rhyme. How am I to come up with pithy slogans when the language won't cooperate?


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 03 June 2003 06:48 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
For those like (oh never mind you know who you are) who believe that Israel does not apply the law when there is hatred against Palestinians and Arabs.

A-G indicts Rabbi Ginzburg


Actually, I think they have the wrong man. While Ginsburg TALKS a good game, one Israeli Prime Minister after another has sanctioned brutal, racist, repressive, military occupation and collective punishment of a people based on their ethnicity.

This is simply a case of a lot of 'hand-waving' as Wittgenstein calls it - the crux of the hatred toward Palestinians (how they are treated) continues with little question. When they question THAT, it will be worth talking about. At this point they are just imprisoning an old man for saying things that expose too much of what many Israelis (like the right-wingers in Sharon's coalition) think and say in such a clear concise way. Moreover, going after Ginsburg is politically easy - he's a bit marginalised, if the A-G goes after Ovidia Yosef, or NUP or some other patently racist party IN POWER, I'll be a lot more impressed and perhaps convinced that this isn't just window dressing.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 03 June 2003 09:55 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by April Follies:
I'm in favor of teaching more critical thinking, rather than trying to restrict speech. Show people why a given work is "vile, racist tripe" (thanks Maggot! great phrase), and the dangers of said tripe.

When you start jailing people for their views, however disgusting, you just tend to attract the little yelping dogs of conspiracy afficionados to the wolf-pack of racism. Result: the addition of extreme annoyance to grevious bodily injury... you know, I think this metaphor just wasn't meant to be.


The thing is, is that like some aspects of child discipline, the little buggers just won't learn not to do something until they get their fingies smacked.

Well, in this case maybe it'll take a trial and conviction to finally make them shut their useless yaps.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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