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Author Topic: Angry Palestinians Lash Out At Militants
DaddySno
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posted 21 May 2003 05:01 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Militants ?

But why are they lashing out ? Don't they know that Hamas is just fighting the occupation ?


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 May 2003 05:04 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, they know -- as we all know here, and have been discussing for several days now -- that Hamas, like Sharon, want to kill any prospects for peace via the so-called Road Map.

You're welcome.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 21 May 2003 05:13 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
that Hamas, like Sharon, want to kill any prospects for peace via the so-called Road Map.

You mean like this ?

quote:
Sharon, who called off the trip because of the bombings, told Bush he would meet soon with Abbas to discuss ways to improve security, adding, "it's clear that the Palestinians need to begin seriously fighting terrorism in order to move forward," according to a statement from Sharon's office.

From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 May 2003 05:17 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah, yes ... That is his excuse, his continuing excuse, for (1) not agreeing to the Road Map, as Abu Mazen has, and (2) not going to Washington, to face the pressure there, which might advance things a little.

When the honeyed vagaries are followed up with some positive steps, we might be more open to the press releases, DaddySno.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 May 2003 05:18 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PS: Not, of course, that I believe this whole silly exercise should be being run from Washington in the first place. However: small steps.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 21 May 2003 05:31 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Palestinian Authority will not disarm Palestinian terrorist groups until the "Israeli occupation forces stop the killing and the oppression" in the territories and until Israel accepts the 'roadmap' plan to Palestinian statehood unconditionally, Palestinian Minister for Foreign Affairs Nabil Sha'ath said Tuesday.

"The Palestinian government will not initiate any conversation with the militant factions until Israel declares its unconditioned approval of the 'roadmap'", Sha'ath told reporters in Cairo after meeting Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak.



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skdadl
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posted 21 May 2003 05:38 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
All he's doing is repeating the basic condition of the Road Map, yes?

The PA has accepted. Israel has not. Is a problem for the PA, no?


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Mishei
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posted 21 May 2003 05:39 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I believe that the road map is a good start to peace. It saddens me that there is so much resistance to it by Sharon. Perhaps in the days ahead, especially if Abu Mazen and the Palestinians themselves reign in Hamas et al, the road map will yet be a tool for peace.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 21 May 2003 05:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We are told that Abu Mazen has, so far, very little cred among the Palestinian people. None of this is helping him very much, is it? Especially Sharon's resistance isn't helping much, is it?

Maybe he genuinely isn't the right leader. I wonder what went on in his choosing. Presumably the USians played a part. They must be chewing nails right now. If real people weren't dying for their obscenely ignorant arrogance, I'd say it serves them right.


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Mishei
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posted 21 May 2003 05:58 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The thousands Palestinians who demonstrated today seem to understand and agree with Abu Mazen. He is reasonable and wants a 2 state solution. Surely the average Palestinian wants the same. They are hopefully not Hamas supporters for if they are there will never be peace.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 21 May 2003 08:05 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are two problems I see with this.

1) The Road Map is a joke and no matter what the Palestininas do the Israelis will never allow progress.

2) Sharon and his extremist allies will use thisa demonstration as evidence not that Palestinains want peace but that collective punishment can work.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 21 May 2003 08:22 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
There are two problems I see with this.

1) The Road Map is a joke and no matter what the Palestininas do the Israelis will never allow progress.

2) Sharon and his extremist allies will use thisa demonstration as evidence not that Palestinains want peace but that collective punishment can work.



Well Wing, I happen to be somewhat more optimistic than you.

Having just returned from Israel I can tell you that virtually every Israeli I spoke to is ready to make peace and willing to accept the road map as just that as long as their safty can be guarenteed to some extent. Sharon , it seems to me, is bucking the tide and with popular pressure and American cajoling may be left with no choice,


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 21 May 2003 10:17 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
I believe that the road map is a good start to peace. It saddens me that there is so much resistance to it by Sharon. Perhaps in the days ahead, especially if Abu Mazen and the Palestinians themselves reign in Hamas et al, the road map will yet be a tool for peace.

*THUMP*

That was me falling over and hitting the floor at the fact that Mishei actually expressed disapproval of Sharon's tactics.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 21 May 2003 10:56 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Having just returned from Israel I can tell you that virtually every Israeli I spoke to is ready to make peace and willing to accept the road map as just that as long as their safty can be guarenteed to some extent. Sharon , it seems to me, is bucking the tide and with popular pressure and American cajoling may be left with no choice,

I appreciate your optimism.
But the Americans have buckled to Israeli pressure not vice-versa and the settler wield more power in the Israeli cabinet than does the typical Israeli. And they did vote for him. Twice.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 22 May 2003 10:14 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Settlers do not wield more power altogether and the Cabinet must be cognizant of the average Israeli or else. Israeli politics can be very fickle.

And yes Israel voted for Sharon simply , IMHO, because they believed he offered them protection from suicide murderes. Rightly or not.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 23 May 2003 05:10 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
skdadl, here's some good news.

quote:
[ Printer Friendly ] [ EMail This Article to a Friend ]
May. 23, 2003
Sharon accepts 'roadmap'
By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

Advertisement

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced Friday that he is ready to accept the US-backed 'roadmap' plan to Mideast peace and that he will present it to the government for approval.

Sharon's statement followed weeks of hesitation, and came just hours after the Bush administration assured Israel that its concerns regarding the plan would be taken into account.

In a statement credited to both the Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice released earlier Friday, the United States agreed with the substance of the Israel's concerns with the 'roadmap', but insisted that the parties follow the document regardless.

"In view of the recent statement of the US regarding the Israeli comments on
the Roadmap, which shares the view of the Government of Israel that these
are real concerns we are prepared to accept the steps set out in (implementing) the 'roadmap'," Sharon said in a statement.

The government will discuss the plan on Sunday or Monday, said a Sharon adviser, Raanan Gissin. Sharon has informed US President George W. Bush of his decision, Gissin said.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell also addressed the issue Friday at a G8 press conference. Sitting next to French Foreign Minister Dominique Villepin, he said that the US is "not planning on making any changes to the 'roadmap'."

Washington officials stated that US President Bush may meet with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas in the Sinai resort town of Sharm al-Sheik upon Israel's acceptance of the plan.

The statement earlier released by the United States administration reads: "The United States shares the view of the Government of Israel that these are real concerns, and will address them fully and seriously in the implementation of the roadmap to fulfill the President's vision of June 24, 2002."

de Villepin is scheduled to visit Israel for talks Sunday with Prime Minister Sharon. He also plans to meet with Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat.


[ 23 May 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 23 May 2003 05:12 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 23 May 2003: Message edited by: xrcrguy ]


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 23 May 2003 05:43 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, from Powell and Rice, I expect, you know, the usual (that paragraph had me tending in Wingy's direction), and I'm not so susceptible to charming Frenchmen that I trust de Villepin much further than I could throw him (but why would I throw him? ), but -- as long as the Europeans remain engaged in this process, I will try to hope for it.

As soon as it looks like nothing more than yet another of Rice's sophomoric balloons, I quit hoping too.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 23 May 2003 09:40 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
The Settlers do not wield more power altogether and the Cabinet must be cognizant of the average Israeli or else. Israeli politics can be very fickle.

Would you care to tell me if the current Israeli budget is being adhered to with respect to the projected expenditures on settlements?


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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