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Author Topic: Another day, another martyr....
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 08:58 AM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
[ 30 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]Yahoo

[ 30 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 30 April 2003 08:59 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey, DaddySno, your link isn't working - you need to edit out one of the "http://" 's.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 08:59 AM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you Michelle. It's working now.

[ 30 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 30 April 2003 09:07 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm so sorry to hear about this, btw.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 09:23 AM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is horrible. I don't think we will see peace there for a long time.
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 April 2003 09:38 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
DS, such laments sound dangerously like self-fulfilling prophecies. Surely you would prefer to take Mishei's advice to Wingy yesterday to heart:

quote:
Perhaps your energies would be better spent looking for ways to support Abu Mazen and his initiatives.

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 09:44 AM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just hope Abu Mazen is serious about confronting Hamas. If that happens, I think things will start to look up.
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 30 April 2003 10:33 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wouldn't it be nice if all of us could accept the reality of two factors:

1. Israel IS REAL. It is here to stay as a democratic nation. It has a right to peace, freedom and security within recognizable negotiated borders.

2. The Palestinian Authority should become a state. It too is here to stay. It has a right to peace, freedom and security within recognizable negotiated borders.

This would go a much further distance than constant recriminations, accusations and demonizing.

Can we all work together on this one?


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 30 April 2003 10:52 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I can agree with that.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 30 April 2003 12:10 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishei, your points are broad enough for me to accept. I can also add:

3. Israel is a fundamentally racist state, and should reform its identity as such for the sake of a real long-term peace.

4. The Palestinian Authority is fundamentally corrupt, and should be replaced by a more representative organisation in order to have any legitimacy.

Please note that I am not "demonizing" anyone. I do not think that racist or illegitimate governments are absolutly wrong, and I believe people have a right to support racism and corruption if they wish to do so. I am only stating the reality of the situation as I see it.

skdadl, I thought you were a democrat.


From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 April 2003 12:16 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
satana, I am a democrat. I'm not sure what to think about Abu Mazen. So I didn't say what I thought. I quoted Mishei.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 30 April 2003 01:50 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Israel is a fundamentally racist state, and should reform its identity as such for the sake of a real long-term peace.

4. The Palestinian Authority is fundamentally corrupt, and should be replaced by a more representative organisation in order to have any legitimacy.


Only satana looks for a way to spread dissension. ISRAEL IS NOT A RACIST STATE AND CONTINUED SHAME ON YOU FOR THIS.

As for the PA, I believe as any developing govenmnetal structure it is trying hard to work out its issues. Your denigration of evrything sadly demonstrates how you wish to stop any progress


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 02:07 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishei, don't even bother with santana. Just let him keep repeating his racist accusations. The santana who cried wolf.
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 30 April 2003 02:13 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishei, aren't you lucky, you get DaddySno trying to buddy up to you.

Why does everybody have such a hard time spelling satana?


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 02:30 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Scout, seeing that you have nothing to add to the thread except really bad insults and you're such a good speller, could you tell me if this is spelt right ? Pathetic
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 30 April 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What have you added to the thread besides really bad insults?
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 April 2003 02:59 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The thread??? The entire board, I'd say.

DaddySno obviously knows that he's going to be banned soon for doing little more than flaming others. I take it, then, that his main motive is to get others to flame him back -- which might mean that he'd take them down in flames with him.

What other purpose can he have?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 03:42 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
First off, if you look at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that Michelle and I had no problems talking about the subject I had started. You look a little further down, you'll see that even when you, skdadl, typed something on topic, I responded normally. Only when santana comes in do things start getting off topic. Then Scout comes in just to insult me.

quote:
DaddySno obviously knows that he's going to be banned soon for doing little more than flaming others. I take it, then, that his main motive is to get others to flame him back -- which might mean that he'd take them down in flames with him.

Banned ? You have Jingles in another thread telling a guy that probably is an alcoholic to have another drink and you have Scout mocking a guy who can't spell as good as her. And then you have me, responding to insults with insults. You guys wanna talk about the topic, no problem You guys want to insult me, get some thicker skin. If you wanna call a truce, I'm all for it. If not, don't respond to my posts. Thank you.


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 30 April 2003 03:44 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You have Jingles in another thread telling a guy that probably is an alcoholic to have another drink

Markbo, have you seen this?

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 April 2003 03:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
DS, I can easily document your gratuitous insults at me. They were one-liners of no content at all.

You call me names on threads I haven't even posted to. I can document that too.

Snarky one-liners, drive-by postings, are mainly what you write. You remind me of another babbler. A few other babblers, actually.

And no, I won't fall for it. I won't call you names back.

[ 30 April 2003: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 04:16 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Markbo, have you seen this?

See, now that's funny.

So what do you guys say ? Truce ? I don't want to keep this going on.

[ 30 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 04:25 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've never called you names on another thread. I read a post of yours that I thought was absolutely disgusting, but I never said you were disgusting. Just the post.
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 30 April 2003 04:39 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Must have been the one on rotis with curry sauce. Was it the ginger, or the turmeric?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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Babbler # 1595

posted 30 April 2003 04:47 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Only when santana comes in do things start getting off topic.

Now you are obviously pursposely spelling his name wrong. This is not a spelling flame. You may not like what he has to say but at least get his name right.

quote:
Then Scout comes in just to insult me.

I still feel bad for Mishei, even he agreed to spell satana’s name correctly. Like I said, people get sensitive about their handles. Not that you seem to give a shit. i was just giving you a heads up regarding past events. Seeing as your new here.

quote:
telling a guy that probably is an alcoholic to have another drink

I don’t think this is a statement you should be making about another poster. I would think it violates babble policy.

quote:
So what do you guys say ? Truce ? I don't want to keep this going on.

Keep what going? You have yet to sustain any real debate, you have mocked, generalized and pretty much added no value to babble. Sure, I really want to keep that going.

quote:
Scout mocking a guy who can't spell as good as her

That’s another thread and unless you are also libertyman, it’s none of your concern, and if it upsets you so much, file a complaint.

quote:
I read a post of yours that I thought was absolutely disgusting, but I never said you were disgusting. Just the post.

Hey skdadl, I don’t know how you couldn’t tell the difference…

quote:
Jingles, you've just surpassed skdadl in the disgusting department.

…because as we can all see it’s so obvious!


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 30 April 2003 05:00 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I would still say that the issue here is that a bunch of ignorant racists have been let loose to brutalize and rape a vulnerable population, and in terms of the harvest we all shall reap, that is what counts.

This is, hands down, one of the most disgusting posts I have ever read in here. Just my opinion.


Nice try though, Scout. Let me ask you, does it violate babble policy to mock a guy, who seems drunk, to have another drink ? Does it violate babble policy to sneer at someone who can't spell as good as you ? Did it ever occur to you that it could be a disability ?


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 April 2003 05:00 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 30 April 2003 07:25 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nice try? I think the quote was pretty clear. You said it, not me, I didn't have to try at all.

quote:
who seems drunk, to have another drink

The poster I believe we are discussing has, if I am not mistaken, previously apologized for going off the deep end before, under another name through which he was banned. I think he claimed to have been drunk at the time. But seeing as you are new, and with no desire to learn the board culture, you could have looked up things he referenced in his post by the way.

Being drunk does not an alcoholic make.

Like I said before, if you have a problem, report the thread to Audra and enough with your whining, it's boring.

If you want to know what violates babble policy go and read it for yourself, again. Because obviously, in your rush to get in here and bait the "lefties" you skipped that part of the deal.

I think being a troll is a choice, not a disability.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 30 April 2003 10:38 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mishei, how is Israel not racist when it doesn't recognize Palestinians' right to return to their original homes? So long as continues to declare itself a Jewish state at the expense of non-Jewish people's rights it will always remain racist.

I clearly explained how major reform in Israel and the PA are only way to have real progress and achieve real, long-term peace. By supporting racism and unrepresentative governments it is you who is opposed to real progress and peace.


From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 30 April 2003 11:25 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Satana, when Palestinian terrorists target Jews for murder that is racism. The Palestinians will have the right of return to their land of Palestine.

By your way of thinking both Canada and the USA are also racist regimes for they do not permit their own aboriginal people the "right of return" to their ancestral homes either.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 30 April 2003 11:37 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
By your way of thinking both Canada and the USA are also racist regimes for they do not permit their own aboriginal people the "right of return" to their ancestral homes either.

Maybe it's not so bad now, but certainly the two's foundings have racists roots. Native residential homes, the Reservation system, the native massacres of the 1800's and the passing out of smallpox blankets, just to name a few. We've pretty much finished their genocide.

Then when they have the gall to complain about it, we have a tendancy to send the police after them.


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 01 May 2003 12:50 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Palestinians will have the right of return to their land of Palestine.
Palestine encompasses all of the land from Jordan to the Mediterranean, including Israel.

In some ways Canada and the US can also be considered racist regimes, but, at least they recognize aboriginal people as having equal rights as any non-aboroginal anywhere in their territory.
Israel does not recognize non-Jews as equals in an explicitely Jewish state, even denying them residence.

[ 01 May 2003: Message edited by: satana ]


From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 01 May 2003 09:16 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by satana:
Palestine encompasses all of the land from Jordan to the Mediterranean, including Israel.

In some ways Canada and the US can also be considered racist regimes, but, at least they recognize aboriginal people as having equal rights as any non-aboroginal anywhere in their territory.
Israel does not recognize non-Jews as equals in an explicitely Jewish state, even denying them residence.

[ 01 May 2003: Message edited by: satana ]


This of course is just a blatant lie. Who exactly made the borders as described above? Where in history did "Palestine" exist as the entity described? It is precisely this thinking that prevents peace and promotes ongoing fear and mistrust.

Secondly satana continues to perpetuate the myth that only Jews are full citizens of Israel, another lie. Arabs and Christians have full rights as citizens. Indeed there are Arab members of the Knesseth. Again this continual portrayal of Israel as evil this perpetual lie really continues to make many wonder what satana is really trying to accomplish.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 01 May 2003 09:28 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So are you saying Palestinians in Israel have the exact same rights and benefits of citizenship as Jews in Israel?
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
libertyman
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posted 01 May 2003 09:50 AM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Why does everybody have such a hard time spelling satana?

Scout do you have a spelling fetish?

From: New york | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
libertyman
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posted 01 May 2003 09:55 AM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Mishei, how is Israel not racist when it doesn't recognize Palestinians' right to return to their original homes? So long as continues to declare itself a Jewish state at the expense of non-Jewish people's rights it will always remain racist.
The right? They lost it fair a square ,when the were attacked 35 some odd years ago.Results of an agressive war toward them.

From: New york | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 01 May 2003 09:58 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So then you would agree Cuban exiles lost the same right when they fled for Miami some 40 years ago? And you would agree the same is true of US corporations that supported the Batsists regime, yes?
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 01 May 2003 12:03 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 01 May 2003 12:29 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Arab citizens of Israel have all the rights of Israel citizenship.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 01 May 2003 12:33 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How come they are called Arabs and not Israelis?
Mishei, I am not trying to be smart but anyone with Canadian citizenship is called Canadian. I really am curious.

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 01 May 2003 12:48 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They are called Israelis. In Canada I am referred to as a "Jewish" Canadian and proud to be.A pal who happenes to be a person of colour refers to himself as an "Afro-Canadian". Do you have a problem with that as well?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 01 May 2003 12:57 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Do you have a problem with that as well?

Don't be an ass, it seemed like a real question.

Outside of Canadian we are just called Canadians, regardless of what we label ourselves. So I think it was a reasonable question.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 May 2003 12:58 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is that true, Mishei? Do you refer to yourself as a "Jewish" Canadian? I wouldn't refer to you that way. (And I'm being sincere here; I'm not being ironic.)
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 01 May 2003 01:08 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Arab citizens of Israel have all the rights of Israel citizenship.


Shit you are touchy Michei. You are the one that said Arab citizens. Sheesh.
You can call me anything just don't call me late for dinner.

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 01 May 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Arab citizens of Israel have all the rights of Israel citizenship.

Esxcept when Arab political parties are under threat of being denied the ability to get members on the party lists...

And I like the way you skate around the fact that Palestinian-Arabs who are resident in the Occupied Territories, because of the legal fiction of the PA, in effect are made into second-class citizens of Israel, since the PA is a joke. But because they are technically citizens of the PA, they have little legal recourse. Who are they gonna sue, the PA? Puh-leeze. If Canada's government were as impotent as the PA, and the US regularly treated Canadians like dirt, at least the US is such a lawsuit-happy culture I could sue the US government for redress instead of petitioning my joke of a government to get redress on the diplomatic level.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 01 May 2003 02:48 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You brought up Palestine, Mishei. Let's forget it. You're silly word games arn't going to solve anything in real life.
quote:
satana continues to perpetuate the myth that only Jews are full citizens of Israel, another lie.
Where the fuck did you get that? Of course there are Arabs in Israel. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the Arabs who have absolutely no rights in the country where there homes exist - Palestinian refugees who lost their homes since 1947.

What do you say to Arabs from Jaffa or Haifa who are not allowed to return to their homes? Answer that. If you can make peace with these people you will have peace in Israel.

quote:
libertyman: They lost it fair a square ,when the were attacked 35 some odd years ago.Results of an agressive war toward them.
I'm talking about civilians, not Arab states. You're right to your land doesn't change when a new government takes control.

From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 01 May 2003 02:57 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mishei:
Arab citizens of Israel have all the rights of Israel citizenship.

Oh.
quote:

Palestinians have the lowest socio-economic status of all groups in the state. According to 1996 CBS statistics, 28.3% of Arab families and 32.6% of Arab children live below the poverty line.

Comparative statistics extracted from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics Abstract of 1996 indicate the wide gaps that exist between Arabs and Jews in all the major indicators including: infant mortality rate; education levels; income; employment; and housing density.

There is clear evidence that racist attitudes exist and that racist acts against the Palestinians occur in Israel. In a survey of 400 youths aged 13-18, conducted by the Geocartography Institute for the local Union of Local Authorities, published in February 1998, it was found that: 44% of Jewish youth believe that Arab citizens should be deprived of at least some of their rights; 19% favoured depriving Palestinians of rights because, “Arabs endanger the state’s security, and therefore we need to get rid of them.”; and 7% of the youth said “Arabs do not deserve rights in the Jewish state.” (11)

Moreover, a 1997 study undertaken by Dr Ofra Mezels of Haifa University and Dr Reoven Kal of Carmel Institute for Social Studies found that in comparison with previous surveys, racism against Arabs is on the rise, particularly among the youth: In 1974, 34% of Jewish youth surveyed hated Arabs, while in 1988, that figure had increased to 39%. (12)

src: http://www.arabhra.org/article26/general.htm



And this:
quote:
Land confiscation is an issue inside Israel as well as the 1967 occupied territories. Arab homes are under demolition order in order to make way for Jewish neighbourhoods or roadways or merely to prevent the expansion of Arab living quarters. Land confiscation is not a matter of providing space for the stream of Jewish immigrants entering the country, but is a political statement. Just as in the West Bank and Gaza, the Israeli state aims to control and suppress the Arab population by surrounding towns and cities with Jewish settlements.

src: http://www.caabu.org/press/articles/outsiders_Arabs_in_Israel.html



From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 01 May 2003 07:50 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some people are in the martyr wholesale business
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 01 May 2003 09:33 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

Esxcept when Arab political parties are under threat of being denied the ability to get members on the party lists...


And that threat was aptly put to rest by Israel's Supreme Court. Just anothrer example of a democracy at work.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 01 May 2003 09:52 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The fact that it should even have happened is an example of behavior more akin to a banana republic whose governing party makes a farce out of "elections" that it magnanimously calls.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 01 May 2003 10:02 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
The fact that it should even have happened is an example of behavior more akin to a banana republic whose governing party makes a farce out of "elections" that it magnanimously calls.

Well Doc that's you opinion. For most others, I believe they understand that there must be a code of law and jurisprudence in order for a country to have a democratic base. People, all people will try to take advantage at one time or another. However, there is fidelity to law in Israel and that is the differnce between it and virtually all of its neighbours.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged

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